Is a quick video glitch from DVD recorder normal?

[moxiecat]

I've been transferring a bunch of MiniDV tapes to DVD for a friend, using a regular MiniDV camcorder hooked via DV to a Toshiba DVD recorder. Most of the time it works fine. However, today I noticed a very quick glitch in the transferred video. I don't know how to explain it other than it looks like a millisecond digital "glitch" in part of the video picture. Then it is gone and things seem fine.

I checked the original tape and the glitch is not on the tape. So it much have been introduced by the DVD recorder as it was encoding.

My question is: Is this normal to have occasional video glitches like this when transferring to a DVD recorder? I shouldn't have to rewatch every DVD I transfer, all the way through, to ascertain if the picture is 100% perfect. But I'm concerned that my recorder is having a problem.

To be fair, this glitch does occur during a low-light picture (wedding reception) and in the midst of a lot of shaky camera work. I don't know if that matters, but transfers seem to have a harder time under those conditions. And most of the transfer seems fine although I have not watched all of it. The wedding ceremony, which was outside, looks perfect.

Anyone who has experience with DVD recorders is more than welcome to chime in. If this is something that is normal and happens occasionally, then I won't worry too much about it. Thanks.

[samijubal]

A lot of times that can be poor quality media. All real time straight to DVD recordings will have small glitches once in a while. I get one every few dozen recordings or so with a Toshiba recorder. If you get them every disc, look into buying better quality discs.

[moxiecat]

I used a Sony DVD-RW disc. Not poor quality that I'm aware of, but please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I usually transfer to the DVD recorder's hard drive; this time I went direct to a DVD (for boring reasons I won't go into). A friend of mine has said he sees this problem occasionally even with straight-to-HDD recordings, though.

If you think it's primarily a media problem, however, that's far better than a problem with the recorder's encoder chip!

Additional opinions are more than welcome. Thanks for your input, Sam.

[samijubal]

I haven't used Sony discs. I do a lot of straight to DVD recordings with Verbatim RWs and only once in a great while do I get any type of glitch in recordings. I always do a full erase on the PC before reusing RW discs though.

[moxiecat]

I like Verbatims too--definitely the best DL discs, IMO. But I had been under the impression that Sonys were near the top of the ratings pile.

Your point on full erasing is well taken. In this case, it was a brand-new disc.

[samijubal]

I don't think Sony makes their own discs. You might try DVDInfoPro or DVDIdentifier to see who makes the discs.

[moxiecat]

I think Sony used to use Taiyo Yuden, which makes the printable discs I use. Hardly ever any problems. Don't know if Sony still uses TY but I'll check--I do have DVDInfoPro on the computer.

[samijubal]

As far as I know, TY only makes R discs. I've never seen ay TY RWs in the U.S.

[moxiecat]

Well, well....the Sony DVD-RW disc is actually "RitekW01"....I am guessing this is not as good as some others.

Do you really think the glitch was caused by the disc though? Have you ever seen something like this turn up on a HDD encoding? I'm just asking because when I first watched the glitch, it looked like the encoding had created it. Unfortunately, like I said, I went straight to disc on this one though so I can't check a HDD file to see if it's there.

Just trying to avoid this happening again in the future. I don't mind monitoring tapes as they transfer, but having to rewatch each DVD transfer for "glitches" would be a serious pain. Thanks again.

[lordsmurf]

RITEKW01 actually tends to be pretty good, because they're not mega-mass produced like the crappy DVD-R and DVD+R. Sony branded ones are going to be fine, not second-grade no-name brands.

All that aside, what's the source? I often see glitches from cable, weather, the satellite, the local network, etc. It has nothing to do with my recorders, my house, my media, or even my neighborhood block.

RW media die, so if this has been used a lot, or scratched at all, stored in a wallet, laid on a table outside a case, etc .. it might be dead.

It may be a hard drive issue, if the drive is running out of space and had to find some between other deleted recordings. Problem of large data going on a fragmented drive.

[moxiecat]

Thanks, LordSmurf.

It was a brand new RW disc, so that's not the problem. My hard drive actually should be defragged, but since I went straight to disc, that wasn't a component here.

The source was a MiniDV tape, fairly new I believe (a wedding taped in 2006). It was played back on a Sony MiniDV camcorder. The tape did not have the glitch on it (at least when I played it back on the same camcorder to check it). So it's something the recorder or disc introduced.

Your tips are good though. Thanks.

[samijubal]

I've been using Toshiba recorders fairly heavily since January '06 and have only seen glitches in recordings a few times. I've only used Verbatim 2x RWs. I have a HDD recorder but only rarely use it. I don't know if HDD recorders are more prone to that type of problem or not.

[orsetto]

There are two separate recording modes under consideration here: direct to DVD media, and direct to hard drive. Any recording in real time made directly to DVD media is subject to random glitches caused by the media itself or a dust fragment momentarily passing over the laser lens. This doesn't happen often, but it happens enough: one of the reasons you should usually transfer priceless one-of-a-kind videos to a hard drive and then burn from there. While the hard drive circumvents any potential media glitches, it still leaves the door open for momentary encoding issues that can cause a "glitch" not visible in the original tape. One of the most misunderstood features of video recorders is the DV camera input: many people assume (reasonably enough) that the DV input is a superior, lossless, digital-to-digital connection. It often isn't. MiniDV format is "denser" than MPEG2, so it needs to be re-encoded or trans-coded before the recorder can pass it to a DVD or its hard drive. Many recorders, such as Pioneer, take the MiniDV input signal, convert it to analog, then re-encode that back to digital MPEG2. During this MiniDV to MPEG2 processing, a borderline error that is "invisible" on the original tape can be magnified and made visible as a "glitch".

[LCSHG]

Ive done a very large number of VHS transfers to DVD
I have used many different mfg. +R and –R Disks and not had any [quote glitch] or a hiccup or momentary stall.

BUT Willl have, from time to time. if I use an RW disk [New or Old ] even with a full PC erase

I only use the RW if I’m not sure if I want to retain the program to disk and Do not erese it from the HDD until sure.

The units used all have replaced DVD. PC drives and work perfectly.

[orsetto]

Ive done a very large number of VHS transfers to DVD
I have used many different mfg. +R and –R Disks and not had any [quote glitch] or a hiccup or momentary stall.

Then you are fortunate indeed that the consumer electronics gods smile upon you. I have transferred nearly 1200 VHS tapes over the last few years and recorded as many more programs off air. I can tell you that when I used DVD-only recorders from JVC, Pioneer and Toshiba I encountered a small but significant number of hiccups, glitches and screwed up recordings due to the recorder taking issue with the media for one reason or another. I only use better-grade media like TY, Verbatim or Sony 8x, so I'm not saying the media itself is to blame. But the real-time straight to DVD recorders simply choke sometimes for their own inscrutable reasons, leaving me with an unusable or problematic disc that has to be redone. After the first year of this aggravation I tried a DVD/HDD recorder and never looked back: none of the HDD equipped models I've used ever screwed up recording to its HDD. And rarely, if ever, have they blown a high speed copy from HDD to DVD media.

Like everything else, experience differs. I have seen loads of people proclaim on forums they have never once had a problem with their DVD-only recorders, but I have also seen an equal number swear they would never go back to a machine without a hard drive after they tried one with it. The hard drive definitely eliminates some risk and allows faster re-do when necessary, on that basis I still strongly recommend crucial projects be dubbed to HDD instead of direct to DVD.

[moxiecat]

Thanks, Orsetto. I leave for a week and my post springs to life!

It's good to hear that about the HDD on DVD recorders. I almost always use the hard drive on my Toshiba. This was a rare situation where I went right to disc. I'll try to avoid that in the future! Thanks for your input.

[wabjxo]

Like everything else, experience differs. I have seen loads of people proclaim on forums they have never once had a problem with their DVD-only recorders, but I have also seen an equal number swear they would never go back to a machine without a hard drive after they tried one with it. The hard drive definitely eliminates some risk and allows faster re-do when necessary, on that basis I still strongly recommend crucial projects be dubbed to HDD instead of direct to DVD.

Speaking of the benefits of HDD recorders, check out this "heads-up" I just posted?

[samijubal]

I get very, very few glitches recording straight to DVD. I've seen people say it happens when recording to the HDD sometimes too. It probably just depends on the quality of the recorder. I've never used a cheap recorder.

[LCSHG]

I have dubbed some 1800 –2000 VHS tapes to DVD
At first I used the RW disks as it was said they are the best but quickly found the were not reliable
I do not use a RW disk for any program I keep. The RW’s are verbatim +RW and the quality is very good even with a hiccup or glitch


My firdt DVD unit was in 2004 an ilo RHD04 [with HDD ] I now have and use/
Three liteon 5045 [with HDD] and three liteon 5005 units.[no HDD ] Also Two ilo RHD04 [with HDD] and two ilo R04 [no HDD] units. All have replaced PC drives
The use of 4x to 16x disks made NO difference in operation with any disk using the original 4X drives to the 16x –1635 drives used as replacements. Nor do any replacements operate any differently than a original but the original drives became un-reliable
If wight be said the liteon drives were the problem but I had used a pioneer and BenQ in a PC with the same result

I do not use the disk only units for recording but if I would , the quality is the same
When using a +R or –R disk there are no problems period.
It would seem this is not believed.
I can and have had hiccup’s in a direct recording to a disk or a copy from the HDD when using a +RW disk.--- [The HDD Recording was OK].---

I have always recommended a HDD unit

[orsetto]

When using a +R or –R disk there are no problems period.
It would seem this is not believed.

Just to be clear, I have never doubted your reports of your personal experience: I wouldn't presume to dispute the validity of what you've seen with your own eyes, I have had too many weird and wacky things happen with different people and different recorders. If you've had great success with direct DVD recording, I'm happy about it.

When I report problems *I've* had, I'm just offering the perspective of someone who has had worse luck than you with direct to DVD recording. For all I know, it could be the truly awful electrical supply in my neighborhood making my recorders "glitch" during real-time optical recording. In my particular circumstances, recording to HDD has been 100% reliable while recording direct-toDVD is more like 80%: not good enough for me to rely on. So naturally I recommend the record to HDD and then high speed copy to DVD approach. To each his own.

[samijubal]

At 80% you've definitely got something wrong. I get a very small glitch every 50-75 discs or so recording straight to DVD, if even that often. What recorder do you use?

[LCSHG]

MY comment – [ Not Believed ]
Was not meant to any one person, and I meant no offence I have had questions as to statements made. I understand.
I have had success with direct recording to disk But with + or – disks. NOT RW Disks.
I do use them because I don’t want + or – disks laying around that I really don’t want. cost is also considered and is ONE reason why I record to the HDD and transfer to a RW disk. And if a hiccup does occur and I want to keep it really is no problem I just copy from the HDDto a +/-r disk and reuse the RW and hope if a hiccup does occur, Its minor

PS I often do not completely edit these RW disks until sure it’s a keeper


[orsetto]

i've had some elect failures that have screwed up a program I wanted and as my wife has said your language is un- believeable. I now use a Battery backup that has worked OK

[samijubal]

I see no difference between R or RW on my recorder. I always do a full erase on the PC before reusing RW discs though.

[LCSHG]

samijbal

Intresting that you have no problems with RW disks
What recorder, burner and disks are being used

As said mine are liteon/ilo units all have replaced liteon PC drives [451s to 1635s] So as to retain the FF Function . The disks are Verbatim +RW. The verbatim +/- r disks work fine

I always do A full erase on The RW using Nero but do not format the disk with the pC

[samijubal]

I use Verbatim 2x -RWs. The recorder is a Toshiba D-R4.

[LCSHG]

samijbal

Disks I use are Verbatim 1x – 4x. I bought these some 3 yr ago 2 packs of 30 each. The +RW because at the time I didn’t have the liteon units and the ilo units only use a + disk
Still have some 52 disks one pack is still new and unopened.
I record to the HDD and copy to a + or –disk if a keeper

The same problem with the Verbatem +RW disks exists in all My units, HDD or not..
I do not feel that the liteon ilo recorders are at fault. -

I have not felt that a specific disk is a cause of problems, as long as a disk used was one used by it to burn with
With your experence using a Verbatim –RW and mine with a +RW Verbatim I think I should reviw this. I will get some –RW disks and see. Its possible that the units do not really like +RW Dusks or the disks are defective
Actually any hiccup is not a problem for me. The hiccup is only a max of 2 sec and they are a max of 2 per disk and do not appear on the same spot and intermittently the same disk The HDD recording is OK. The issue does bug me though.

Thanks for the reply and info

[lordsmurf]

DVD+RW tend to give more headaches than DVD-RW. Die faster, too.