Pioneer will stop Manufacturing their own Panels for Plasma TV's

[budz]

According to Audioholics.com Pioneer stop manufacturing their own panels for Plasma TV's.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

As we predicted several years ago, plasma technology is on its way out. Putting one of the nails in the lengthy coffin is Pioneer Corp, who is stopping ALL production of plasma display panels. Last week we reported that they had decided to stop all 42-inch panel production, however that has now been expanded to its entire plasma line. This comes via an industry source briefed on the plan and quoted by Reuters in an article released today. Rather than panic, Pioneer shares immediately jumped to a four-month high following the report - up 11.2 percent.

You heard it here first: Plasma TV is dead.

Pioneer is the world's fifth-largest plasma TV manufacturer and has constantly struggled for relevance against the larger Panasonic brand (Matsushita). Now, Pioneer will buy its panels from the competing brand and it will begin picking up LCD panels from... you guessed it - Sharp. This makes three major manufacturers who are backing Sharp panel production in the coming year (inclusive of both Toshiba and Sony Electronics). Our guess is that Sharp is going to be the first to market with the new line of super-thin LCD panels that fans such as myself have been dreaming about for some time.

Investors have long known that Pioneer was bleeding red ink over its plasma division having several years ago decided not to compete in the low-price market. "This is an excellent development," said Mitsushige Akino, chief fund manager at Ichiyoshi Investment Management. "Pioneer could have chosen another way and stepped up its plasma investment despite the fact that the business is bleeding red ink, but it's a wise step to decide against that... a quicker decision would have been even better," he said.

This is no easy decision for the Japan-based manufacturer. Pioneer has spent nearly $1 billion (yes, with a 'b') on four plasma TV manufacturing plants and two additional plants it purchased from NEC.

According to the report, a Pioneer spokesman said the company would unveil its display business strategy when it announces company-wide business plans on Friday.

The only thing surprising about this announcement is its timing. Pioneer just last year launched its premier "Project Kuro" line which promised total black levels and was designed to give consumers a no-holds-barred choice for high-end plasma displays. Pioneer had repeatedly stated that the Kuro brand was gaining speed and 2008 would show that Pioneer had captured the high-end market. The problem is that Pioneer, while predicting several hundreds of thousands of plasma TV sales, was up against rival Panasonic who had a planned sales volume of more than 5 million units.

For those concerned, this doesn't mean that Pioneer will exit the plasma business. It simply means that they are, in the interim at least, looking to leave the plasma panel manufacturing business, opting instead to purchase their panels from a company like Matsushita (Panasonic).

As to what this means for plasma as a technology, we believe that, as predicted, this is the beginning of the end. It's longevity depends on a few factors now:

* Marketing and consumer perspective of the technology
* How quickly the new super-thin LCD TVs hit the consumer market (Hitachi is already releasing some)
* The continuation of rapidly-dropping LCD panel prices
* How much Matsushita invests in plasma versus its LCD manufacturing efforts in upcoming years

So there you have it. Plasma has begun its exit from the market as consolidation forces one of the largest proponents of the technology finally exits the manufacturing business and takes on LCD. We're sad to see it go, but it appeared to us at this year's CES that ultra-thin LCDs are going to hit the market much sooner than ultra-thin plasmas. When that happens there is going to be an incredible surge in popularity for the <1-inch thin displays that will push plasma technology further away. The same effect has happened to rear projection television, with manufacturers leaving those markets and technology in droves. Just this year, Sony decided to eschew all screen technologies save LCD and OLED - and it had a large stake in its LCoS-based SXRD line.

The future looks bright. We can't wait to see what happens next.

[samijubal]

With their seriously overpriced plasmas, it's no wonder they aren't making enough profit. Panasonic plasmas have virtually the same picture quality for a lot less money.

[SatStorm]

My professional sources, told me that Pioneer will produce only 50"+ plasma screens from now on and also they will start producing LCD Panels.

Plasma is far from dead. I prefer LCD myself.

[videobread]

Plasma production lines are being shut down and LCD lines are opening up. Has been going on for the last year. Plasma is a better product, but margins are higher on LCD. This may be the last chance to pick up a deal on a plasma before they become a expensive premium product. Best value in plasma out there is the Samsung 42" 720 @ $1300 or less US.

[maek]

Check the prices for LCD on screens larger than 52"...plasma is far from dead.

The fact that Pioneer is stopping their manufacture of plasmas is unfortunate, but not unforeseen. Their screens were nice, but, as one previous poster noted, overpriced. I was hoping that their prices would drop down quicker, but they haven't and Panasonic is looking very attractive to me right now.

In fact, my next purchase will be a 58" Panasonic TH-58PZ750U - Consumer Reports top-rated plasma. Try to find an LCD that is comparable in size and cost...and can actually show black instead of a dark gray that reads "also comes in black". We were at a Fry's electronics and visited a room with screens larger than 52". They had the Panasonic that I wanted to get in there as well as a couple of LCDs. They were showing a HD-DVD demo (insert laughter here) of Van Helsing...the scene that they were showing was on the bridge over the vast canyon separating the castle. It was a dark scene with dark blue lighting and rain. Side by side, the LCDs just couldn't handle the blacks very well and it looked washed out and horrible. The Panasonic was handling it just fine and was razor sharp.

I'm sure that LCDs are dynamite below a 50" range, but they sure look like hell at 65"...and with a big price ticket to boot.

[SatStorm]

Actually maek, the very new Samsung LCD screens with LED backlight, eliminates the problem of "Black". Those screens simply don't light the LEDs of the area that is dark.

Philips' stupid ambient light detection mechanism, is used but in a twist. This time, not to make the ambient light match the colour of the screen (the horror, the horrrooooorrrr....) but to detect the dark areas so to switch off the related backlight LEDs.
It works great. True black...

[bendixG15]

Those little LEDs are not cheap

[mstone321]

Satstorm,

Are you implying the LED backlights are the same size as the individual LCD pixels and individually controllable? I don't think the panels are that sophisticated yet, although that would be a great long term goal.

Matt

[SatStorm]

No, it is not at the same size. They are normal LEDs at the time- so far from perfect. But you get my point and where this gonna lead in the not so far future.
And yes, nobody said that the LEDs are cheap. I said that a solution for that LCD "problem" (no true black because of the need of a back light) exists already and tested with success on some Samsung models (F86 I think...)

About the time the LCD panels "cure" all of it's problems, OLED screens gonna be next to mainstream.

[videobread]

If you look at your computer LCD at say a 45 degree angle the picture distorts just like with the older projection TV's. You really need to look a an LCD straight on. Plasma has no distortion even way off to the side - no distortion.

[SatStorm]

Today's LCD screens use special glasses so to offer a better angle viewing. Sharp did a major presentation about those glasses on IFA 2006. Of course, you don't have the angle you have on the plasma screens, but today's models are about 120 degree angle with no real problem. Samsung said it is about 140 degrees.
On the other hand, what's the point to have a 40"+ TV and watch it from 100+ degrees?

The real life benefits of the plasma screens are not so many those days compared the current LCD screens. 2008 is not 2004.

[samijubal]

As LCDs have been improving, so have plasmas. Show me a 42" LCD with 15000:1 contrast ratio for a little over $1000.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I won't buy a LCD until someone makes a profile 2.0 tv for under $200USD...oh wait...wrong HD war.

[stiltman]

Show me a LCD that looks good from an angle.

I'm a plasma fan and Pioneer did have the best black levels

[ricoman]

Too bad. The best display I have ever seen is a 50" Pioneer plasma Elite. Just unbelievable. But, they were so f'en expensive. I was hoping that they would eventually come down in price.

[ron spencer]

I have yet to find an LCD I like; they just look poor and bleed alot...but then again I find CRT better than all...


let's get a good technology...maybe 1080 CRT 50" 800 pounds?

[budz]

Too bad. The best display I have ever seen is a 50" Pioneer plasma Elite. Just unbelievable. But, they were so f'en expensive. I was hoping that they would eventually come down in price.

I PIONEER KURO line is freaking expensive but there are people who have that much cash to spend. If you check the internet the Pioneer Plasma's are all out of stock at most online retailers and Best Buy stores as well. I would always drool when I looked at Pioneer's Kuro line at Best Buy!

[maek]

Actually maek, the very new Samsung LCD screens with LED backlight, eliminates the problem of "Black". Those screens simply don't light the LEDs of the area that is dark.

Philips' stupid ambient light detection mechanism, is used but in a twist. This time, not to make the ambient light match the colour of the screen (the horror, the horrrooooorrrr....) but to detect the dark areas so to switch off the related backlight LEDs.
It works great. True black...

Awesome! Do they have an affordable 60" screen?

Seriously, though, I do understand that LEDs have come a long way...but they still have a battle to fight above the 52" mark. Unfortunately, I'm in the market for a 58 - 60" screen that has to work in a multitude of lighting conditions. (And I still want to beat a friend of mine over the head who is convinced that his 65" DLP is the best thing in the world - the "rainbow effect" his screen gives off makes me nauseous). For those reasons, plasmas have the edge for me. Call me wrong, but I think that the TV that I'm looking at right now strikes the right balance for all my needs.

[SatStorm]

I'm living in Southern Europe maek. We rarely have the space to use screens bigger that 50" here. I certainly don't have, neither I'll be able ever to have a house with such a big space in my life. Only if I win the lotary...
Currently, I have a 42" in a 4 X 4.5m room that my friends consider "big". I believe when OLED screens became cheap, I will be able to have a 52" screen in the same room. This is the higher I can go - and looks extreme in my room, believe me!
I use to have a projector, so I know the limitations of my space.
Finally, I'm a fan of the picture motion myself: colors, contrast, viewing angle, all the benefits the plasma screens have, are not so important for me: Since the day I watched the first demo of a M91 LCD screen from Samsung, I switched from plasma to LCD and until then, nothing switched me back! I just love to watch TV/ movies/ cartoons that way! I don't care for the hallow effect either! It's all about the motion for me.

Back on topic:
Plasma screens are still better and considerably cheaper on higher (50"+) dimensions. My point is that they are not cheaper and better on the smaller dimensions anymore. The benefits once had, including a real "black" picture, are no more, LCD manage to bypass all the limitations on those dimentions (up to 46"). Pioneer realized that, thats why they announced that they stop making smaller plasma screens.

[maek]

Agreed!

I lived in Europe for 20 years myself, split amongst Belgium, Germany, and England, so I understand where your coming from. We had a home built here and our living room was specifically setup for movie viewing since my wife and I enjoy it so much.

[samijubal]

That no benefits below 50" simply isn't true. Show me an LCD with 15000:1 contrast ratio. Pioneer is quitting because there aren't enough people with that much money to spend. I was looking at an $1800 Pioneer and a $1000 Panasonic side-by-side, the Pioneer had slightly better blacks, that was the only difference between the two. It wasn't enough to warrant the $800 difference. Plasmas still have many advantages over LCD. Plasmas have far better contrast ratios, better blacks, uniform screen brightness from edge to edge, better viewing angles, no motion blur, superior color accuracy and more possible colors, better with analog sources, more 3-D like picture, the list goes on. Maybe some day LCD will catch up, not yet.

[SatStorm]

Contrast ratio is not everything. It is what YOU give more focus!

For the rest you mention,you must catch up with today's LCD market. The things you mention was a couple of year a problem, today they are almost eliminated.

"Plasmas have far better contrast ratios, "
True, but from a point and beyond this benefit is only on papaer

"better blacks,"
Latest LCDs with LED backlight don't have this problem. In a year they gonna be maintrsteam.

"uniform screen brightness from edge to edge,"
That depends...

"better viewing angles,"
sure, but as I said, what's the point to watch from 140 degree?

"no motion blur,"
100/120Hz screens add frames to the picture, so the motion is even better the Plasmas now on this... Plasmas are not able to do the trick

"superior color accuracy and more possible colors,"
if the source is digital, this is not an issue for LCD nowdays

"better with analog sources,"
if you mean the colours, probably. I don't guess what possible other could
you mention here

"more 3-D like picture,"
Did you ever see something on LCDs lately? This is a joke I guess...
plasma are far behind 3-D like picture

"the list goes on."
I'm all ears!

Let me also say, that I don't intent to start a counting of the minors of Plasma and the benefits of LCD. I just answer on what you say.

You are obvious a Plasma fan, as probably many others Americans. I don't have a problem with that, I use to be a plasma fan myself. But things are not the same today as it was 3 years ago. LCDs are getting really good, on smaller sizes (less 46").

A correct HDTV experience, needs a screen at least 50" with a full HD panel. On that case, Plasma is, without a doubt, a better choice.
On the smaller dimensions, LCD seems to do better nowdays. Pioneer realized that and all the plasma fans must also have to deal with this fact.

IMO, the way I see the things today, the Plasma fans can say - without a doubt - that without a big screen plasma screen, you don't get a true 1080p experience. On the other hand, the LCD fans can say that you get a perfect 720p experience on 42".
So, it is Plasma for USA and LCD for Europe. The number sales of both LCD and Plasmas the last couple of years, seems to agree with me.

[samijubal]

Uniform screen brightness depends on nothing, it's a fact of plasma.

Yes, I looked at every LCD I could find before buying Plasma. I took DVDs of varying quality to a local retailer and made them connect a DVD player to various TVs, even in the well lit showroom, LCD just didn't cut it.

Plasmas are still less money too. I paid just over $800 for my 42" Panasonic plasma. You can't even get a budget POS LCD for that.

Analog sources is colors and more. Watch VHS on your LCD, it looks like crap. Plasmas are better with poor quality sources.

People with 120Hz LCDs are still complaining of motion blur, it doesn't fix the problem and plasma still wins here. Those 120Hz sets are twice as much as a plasma. Apples and oranges.

LCD 1000:1 - 3000:1 contrast ratios are no comparison to plasma 15000:1 ratios. That means better blacks and whites, wheather you admit it or not.

Those LCDs with LED backlight are far more expensive. Again, apples and oranges.

Look around at professional TV comparisons and ratings. There's a reason plasma still gets better reviews.

You've obviously never experienced a good plasma in a dark room.

People just aren't willing to spend twice as much to get a Pioneer when Panasonic plasmas are almost universally rated no.1 for price and performance. Pioneer's overpriced TVs drove them out.

More LCDs are sold because to most people they look better in a well lit showroom. Get that LCD in a dark room and all the flaws of LCD will stand out like a sore thumb.

[orsetto]

Isn't there a new Farrelly brothers movie called "There's Something About Plasma"?

Seriously, the plasma market is dying for one reason only, the same reason that has put a premature stake thru the heart of rear projection: the g-damned "wife acceptance factor". At no other time in electronics history has the wives & girlfriends factor had such a massive, single-minded effect on such a huge product category. The plain fact is that women are programmed with a genetic aversion to big screen TV and they have a bizarre compulsion to insist it hang on the wall and be as thin as humanly possible before they stop kicking up a fuss. Normally I wouldn't care, what couples negotiate in their private space is their own business, but I am PISSED beyond words that this idiocy is influencing (badly) the single most important big-ticket electronics category most of us buy for our homes.

Unless you watch HDTV programming 100% of the time, LCD disappoints and gets on your nerves after a while. Standard def looks like total crap on laptop LCDs, and LCD televisions have the same issues exaggerated in size. How many of us on this forum have spent thousands of hours carefully transferring our VHS collections to DVD, only to discover they are virtually unwatchable on an LCD television? Please. Viewed on plasma or rear screen units, almost any source can be made to look acceptable but "oh, no- its an inch or two thicker than an LCD panel so my wife vetoed it and I eagerly agreed to go blind to please her picayune standards". Gag me. I cannot for the life of me grasp this one- flat is flat is flat: compared to a 32" CRT behemoth, a 50" rear screen is petite and plasma barely thicker than LCD. What is so awful here? And considering the SIGNIFICANT number of people who DON'T hang the damn thing on the wall but use a big stand, is it THAT much more difficult to make a rear screen or plasma look aesthetically pleasing in your home?

Pioneer is exiting plasma primarily because they made the belated discovery that the "premium" market for electronics evaporated ten years ago while Pioneer wasn't looking. Times change, rich people are still buying $20,000 watches but don't see the point of paying $8000 for a Pioneer plasma that looks not much different from a $4000 Panasonic. And rich men have picky wives too- "that Pioneer is so big and shiny- eewww- lets get the Sharp Aquios with the thin frame and matte screen instead". Ad nauseum.

[SatStorm]

samijubal, my job is to test things, and among those things are also the current TV Sets.

Exactly: Uniform screen brightness is a plasma thing. So, it depends. You don't have it with LCD screens. I don't count it as a benefit neither a problem.

Here in Europe we have 42" LCD screens at 800 Euros from LG and Sharp. Europe is more expensive USA on electronics.

I have to touch a commercial VHS tape more than 8 years. Whatever I have on VHS I convert it to DVDs myself, using plenty of filtering (a 3 Hour VHS takes around 40 hours with the filters I use on my E6600 C2D - Yes, a C2Q is my next CPU move). The result look excellent both on LCD and Plasma. I don't waste a connection of my LCD TV for VHS. I reserve it for something useful (probably Popcorn Hour, my next buy).

I don't know what the people with 120Hz LCDs say in U.S.A. I know that here in Europe, when you see a new Samsung/Sony (they use the same panel) and the later Sharps, you don't look back: There is no motion blur. Actually, those screens make everything look like a BBC documentary or taping theater on a good DV camera...
Oh, and we have 100 Hz here, not 120 Hz

I write "professional" advices too you know. So I know many about my job and how those "professional advices" publish. Never trust someone from my job. Our articles always are cooked up, because we don't dare to go against the big ones - those are the ones that keep us running with their adds. For example, it is impossible to say something against Sony or Philips. Your career is finished the next day your article published...

I know what a good Plasma looks like in a dark room. Something which is very rare to find in real life here in Europe. On the other hand, I also experienced a good plasma in a normal room. Plenty of times and on plenty set ups. You know, normal rooms, with windows? On flats? Well, let me tell you, they don't look so well.

The only "Apples and Oranges" I see here, is that you talking for plasma from the perspective of someone with room and a dedicated place to put it, and I talking about plasma from the perspective of the average European. The one who puts the Plasma on the wall, next to the window 1 and against window 2. Because this is how our houses are built here.

The funny thing is that I don't disagree with you, we say the same thing. The prospective differs and probably our needs.

@orsetto: Being located in Southeast Europe, has it's benefits. For example, we don't have a "wife factor" here. We are not so civilized YET (thank God)

[BJ_M]

plasma best - pioneer elite , the very best... all I have now (5 elites) except for one 32" pana lcd and one 20" sharp ....

it seems a moot point to argue

[SatStorm]

5 plasma and 2 LCD screens? You must have many rooms!

[edDV]

plasma best - pioneer elite , the very best... all I have now (5 elites) except for one 32" pana lcd and one 20" sharp ....

it seems a moot point to argue

The global warming zealots are going to shut your a** down. Then Peta will dump toxic paint on your shoes and the SF Bicycle Coalition will key your car while the ETF burns your house.

Oops /

[budz]

plasma best - pioneer elite , the very best... all I have now (5 elites) except for one 32" pana lcd and one 20" sharp ....

it seems a moot point to argue

Can I come over to see or rent one of your PIONEER ELITE's?
Those PIONEER ELITE Plasma's are getting very scarce here in Honolulu!

[samijubal]

plasma best - pioneer elite , the very best... all I have now (5 elites) except for one 32" pana lcd and one 20" sharp ....

it seems a moot point to argue

The global warming zealots are going to shut your a** down. Then Peta will dump toxic paint on your shoes and the SF Bicycle Coalition will key your car while the ETF burns your house.

Oops /

At my picture settings, my 42" plasma sucks half the power my 34" Sony CRT did. They only suck a lot of power in torch mode.