Need for NTSC DVD to PAL DVD guide

[Lure]

I am trying to convert "Terminator 2 - Ultimate Edition" (R1, NTSC) to PAL. I would like to preserve the entire menu structure too. Can any of you give me a step by step guide to do that (with free software please)?
Thank you in advance.

Merry Xmas!!!

[redwudz]

Just converting a NTSC video to PAL is a fairly complex exercise to do correctly. Adding in the oringinal menus is quite a bit more difficult. I hope you plan on spending a lot of time with this.

It would be much easier to purchase a PAL version of the movie or use a player and display that can correctly play back NTSC video.

But here's a few guides for parts of the project: https://www.videohelp.com/guides/category/how-to-author-a-complex-dvd-3;24#3;24

There are freeware programs you can use for all this.

[mats.hogberg]

99.9% of all PAL players/TVs play NTSC mtrl no problem. Usually no need to convert.

/Mats

[pepegot1]

Use ConvertXtoDVD. It does a good job easily, else it could be a difficult process by other means. The difference between this and other means would be discernable only to the most critical of eyes-not mine in this case.

[guns1inger]

ConvertXtoDVD won't preserve the menu structure.

Why not just buy the PAL version ?

[pepegot1]

I make my own menu structure, when needed.

[guns1inger]

I make my own menu structure, when needed.

Which is fine, but not what the OP was after.

[Lure]

Thanks to all of you for the replies!

I've done something like this before (even keeping menues) but the problem in this case is the NTSC/PAL conversion + 3 different version of the movie in the dvd (theathrical+special ed.+director's cut). I know it isn't gonna be easy but I'd like to try with a step by step guide (I've tried to convert following some guides but, for some reason, the result was no good). To say the truth I already own the Pal version of this dvd too, but there is only the director's cut version of the movie.

[manono]

Here's a guide. You won't be able to do it though, especially since you want to keep the ILVU/Angles. You'll have to encode each and every cell separately. Better would be to choose which version you want to keep and then strip out the other 2. That way you might stand a chance:

http://www.ntsc2pal.hostrocket.com/index.htm

I've done something like this before (even keeping menues)

You mean you reencoded a PAL DVD, keeping the menus? Not even close to being the same thing as an NTSC->PAL conversion.

[Lure]

Thanks manono, I've already had a look at that guide but it needs Sonic Scenarist wich is not free, is it?

[rhegedus]

99.9% of all PAL players/TVs play NTSC mtrl no problem. Usually no need to convert.

The only answer you need.

Don't convert what you don't have to.

[manono]

Thanks manono, I've already had a look at that guide but it needs Sonic Scenarist wich is not free, is it?

NuMenu4U used to require Scenarist, and probably did at the time that guide was written. You can use the Pro version of Muxman now. It costs $35, a lot less than Scenarist.

[Lure]

NuMenu4U used to require Scenarist, and probably did at the time that guide was written. You can use the Pro version of Muxman now. It costs $35, a lot less than Scenarist.

So there is no way to do it totally for free?

[FulciLives]

NuMenu4U used to require Scenarist, and probably did at the time that guide was written. You can use the Pro version of Muxman now. It costs $35, a lot less than Scenarist.

So there is no way to do it totally for free?

If you strip out just the version you want (aka THE DIRECTOR'S CUT) and include that with your own custom menu THEN yes you can do it for free using all shareware type software.

Basically you would do a re-encode using the DGPulldown method. This would require proper ripping which can be done with freeware then using DGIndex and AviSynth along with an encoder such as HCenc which is freeware. Re-encode the video to a PAL resolution of 720x576 but leave the FPS at 23.976fps then run it through DGPulldown to make it 25fps then re-autohor using your new video file and the original audio file(s) and any subtitles needed (I don't much deal with soft subtitle files so you are on your own there if needed).

That process is not ALL that difficult. It does mean making your own menu though ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Lure]

Thanks FulciLives!
If I'll understand exactly how to do it I'll try, but I want to ask you: after all that process isn't there a way to put this new file(s) back into the original dvd structure? I made something like this with VobBlanker, but I am not sure if it could be done in this case too.

Anyway, thank you very much!

[manono]

So there is no way to do it totally for free?

I didn't say that. I pointed to the guide and then answered your question about following the guide, but without using the very expensive Scenarist. It can be done entirely using freeware, and even keeping the original (but converted) menus. I've done it the other way (PAL2NTSC) several times. It's a fairly tedious, involved, process. More realistic is something like what FulciLives proposed. Save out one of the angles and convert the video. Save out some BMPs of the menus which you'll convert to 720x576, and then use a freeware authoring program and the menu pics to create some new menus while authoring. That's not all that difficult if you know some AviSynth and have some video encoding skills. FAVC can also do the video conversion well, but will only make some really simple menus for you. Maybe that'll be enough for you.

If I'll understand exactly how to do it I'll try, but I want to ask you: after all that process isn't there a way to put this new file(s) back into the original dvd structure? I made something like this with VobBlanker, but I am not sure if it could be done in this case too.

Yes, but you did it with a straight PAL reencoding job. You probably didn't have to touch the menus. NTSC2PAL is exponentially more difficult. My opinion is that if you have to ask how to do it, you don't understand what's involved in doing it, and wouldn't know how to do it anyway. Yes, VobBlanker is part of the process. You replace everything in VobBlanker the way you did before. But preparing everything for replacement is the difficult part.

You have to completely dismantle the DVD, and convert everything. Sure, the chapters can be converted easily enough. The subs can be converted easily enough. Just converting the movie itself is perhaps easiest of all (and even that is easily botched). The menus are a bitch, though, as you have to take everything apart, convert it all, and then put it back together again. It can be done, sure, but it requires some knowledge and a lot of work.

[Lure]

Yes, but you did it with a straight PAL reencoding job. You probably didn't have to touch the menus.

Thanks for the reply. As a matter of fact I modified the menues but you're right, it was PAL to PAL. Let me ask you something: at the end of all that process am I gonna get rid of that unpleasant stop-and-go movement during camera pans?

[victoriabears]

would someone pleasee explain to me why anyone would do all this work when all dvd players I've used that convert pal<>NTSC do a great job?

[manono]

Let me ask you something: at the end of all that process am I gonna get rid of that unpleasant stop-and-go movement during camera pans?

Hehe, depends on how you do it, I guess. If you take a 23.976fps NTSC film source and speed it up to PAL 25fps (and speed up the audio as well), then there's no way you can have that stuttering motion during certain kinds of movement. If you encode for 23.976fps and 720x576 and apply pulldown to bring the output framerate up to PAL 25fps (and use the original unstretched audio), then I guess it depends on how sensitive you are to the duplicated fields. NTSC people are so used to it that we don't generally notice anything out of the ordinary. PAL people, not used to pulldown, are sometimes more sensitive to it. However, I'm not sure you're talking about that but maybe something more fundamentally wrong. If you have a sample of such a video, one that shows jerky movement during a panning sequence, maybe you can upload a short section so we can have a look. If you just duplicate a frame every second as some automatic conversion programs and encoders do (a frame now, not fields as I mentioned before), then that will for sure create one strong jerk every second. But that's one of several wrong ways to do the conversion. No one with any skill and knowledge does it that way.

would someone pleasee explain to me why anyone would do all this work when all dvd players I've used that convert pal<>NTSC do a great job?

I can only speak for myself. I have a good player that plays PAL DVDs (I'm in NTSC land). I did it a few times, getting better results each time, just to see if I could. I did it as a challenge to myself.

[Nilfennasion]

It should also be borne in mind that in America, players and televisions that can do PAL are rather uncommon.

[victoriabears]

yes but dvd players that can convert pal dvd 's to ntsv are not

[Lure]

Hehe, depends on how you do it, I guess.

Let me explain the all thing. I have this Ultimate Edition (R1/NTSC as said). Since my player doesn't read R1 discs I made a backup (no conversion of any kind) and neutralized the Regional Code issue. Now I can play the disc (wich is still NTSC since it has 720x480 29.970 fps) so I think the player does the conversion (I don't think my TV accepts NTSC signal). The video looks pretty good, the only problem is a stop-and-go kind of movement during camera pans. I don't know for the NTSC people, but it is very unpleasant to me at the point that I can't watch the movie. So the idea came to my head that if I can get a real PAL dvd out of that NTSC disc it should play smooth on my player.

What do you think?

[victoriabears]

what is the dvd player brand/model you are using?

[manono]

So the idea came to my head that if I can get a real PAL dvd out of that NTSC disc it should play smooth on my player.

Yeah, if you do the conversion correctly, it'll play smoothly. I guess your player does a lousy conversion.

You might have mentioned that you got the jerky video when playing your original NTSC DVD. The way you wrote it in your previous post, you made it seem as if it happened after doing an NTSC->PAL conversion. That was the impression I got, anyway.

[Lure]

what is the dvd player brand/model you are using?

I don't know if it is sold outside my country but it is a Roadstar dvd 2506x

You might have mentioned that you got the jerky video when playing your original NTSC DVD. The way you wrote it in your previous post, you made it seem as if it happened after doing an NTSC->PAL conversion. That was the impression I got, anyway.

I'm very sorry about the misunderstanding.
To say the truth I've tried to do the conversion before post following some guides I've found here but I must have done something wrong since the problem was still there.

[Sparehead01]

I tried to convert my NTSC copy of Phantom Menace to PAL with very little success. It took about 2 days and the results were poor. I originally tried a shortcut using Nerovision which is a one click method but the audio was way out of sync.
Whilst I manged to keep the audio in sync using DVD labs' audio delay function the picture was "jerky" when played in a DVD player, which I attribute to the frame rate difference. I don't think it can be done properly without the jerky picture. In the end I gave up.
My DVD does play NTSC & PAL but for the project I was doing I needed a PAL version. I'm now contemplating buying a PAL version to compliment my NTSC version!!!!!!!

[victoriabears]

Do not know if you can get Philips in Italy,but roadstar is an Alba and may be it is just too cheap for the ntsc>pal to work well. The oppo 981 is very good but they do not mention shipping to Italy on their site.

[Lure]

Thanks guys!

[manono]

I don't think it can be done properly without the jerky picture.

Don't kid yourself. Plenty of people know how to do it properly. And if you don't care much about keeping the menus, it's actually fairly simple to do it right.

The oppo 981 is very good but they do not mention shipping to Italy on their site.

There are plenty of places in Europe that sell them. Because it has a universal power supply, they can be used with no problems, and they're actually pretty popular in Europe among those "in the know". I'm sure a quick e-mail to Oppo support would get a response giving the closest online or store retailer. Here's some guy selling one through Amazon.com in the UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OPPO-DV981HD-Black-European-Multi-region/dp/B000VED1XI/ref=sr_...8955444&sr=1-1

[Sparehead01]

Manono wrote:
Don't kid yourself. Plenty of people know how to do it properly. And if you don't care much about keeping the menus, it's actually fairly simple to do it right.

If it's that simple I would love a tutorial based on software that is freely available. Doesn't matter about menus etc....just converting a movie from 29fps to 25 fps with audio that remains in sync and video that plays smoothly would be fantastic. Oh and by the way if the movie is presented in 6 channel dolby the conversion should be able to keep the 6 channel audio and not convert it to AC3 2 channel or any other format.
How about it?????