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And let us keep a count of how many posts it takes for the Toshiba fanboys to come out wailing "waaaah Sony sucks!" again.
"It's getting to the point now when I'm with you, I no longer want to have something stuck in my eye..." -
it's got a cooler name...
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and that's what counts out in consumer landOriginally Posted by zoobie
Read my blog here.
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Here is the full text:
Paramount in HD DVD blow
By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas
Published: January 8 2008 02:49 | Last updated: January 8 2008 02:49
Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers’ recent backing of Sony’s Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.
Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric’s Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Editorial Comment: Betamax’s revenge - Jan-07
Lex: Sony and Blu-ray - Jan-07
Blu-ray deal hits Microsoft and Toshiba - Jan-07
Warner plumps for Blu-ray in format wars - Jan-04
Price war could break DVD deadlock - Dec-19
Studios still locked in combat over format - Dec-06
However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.
Paramount is set to have a bumper 2008 with several likely blockbusters, including the latest instalment in the Indiana Jones franchise.
Paramount joining the Blu-ray camp would leave HD DVD likely to suffer the same fate as Sony’s now obsolete Betamax video technology, which lost out to VHS in a similar format war in the 1980s.
Warners decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format.
The Warners move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood’s output, although the format’s grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard.
It is unclear whether DreamWorks Animation has the same get-out clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp.
However, Paramount and DreamWorks have a close relationship, with Paramount distributing DreamWorks Animation films. The two companies also signed their HD DVD contracts at the same time. Meanwhile, Universal has declined to comment on its next-generation DVD plans since the Warners move.
Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, on Monday held out an olive branch, saying the company would be “open to dialogue” with the HD DVD camp to “grow the market”. The move came as new figures showed that Blu-ray had opened up a decisive lead over the rival home entertainment format.
Sir Howard said: “We are not going to push people around. We’ll talk to anyone ... we have a lot of work to do to grow the market. We’ll be systematic and open to dialogue at all times.”
He added that Sony still had “a lot of work” to do to get Blu-ray “widely accepted” among American consumers.
“With Warner’s support you saw billboards going up in different places and you saw television commercials getting more and more sophisticated and that’s what we’ll continue doing,” said Sir Howard.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008 -
HD-DVD never had an actual chance. Only if you didnt know what whas going on would one be fooled to think there was EVER a format war. And I'm not saying this just after it's obvious to every1, I've said so since the beginning, chack my posts back to as far as you want.
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I'm an HD-DVD fan, not a Toshiba fanboy.
I also do not think Sony sucks. Or is evil, or is the anti-christ, or anything else.
I do dislike Sony's continued efforts at creating unique formats they can control (memory stick, atrac, root kits, etc.) but I also admire Sony's product quality on almost all of their electronics.
However, I am still flabbergasted that there is such a bitter war over what is essentially the exact same format. The only REAL difference is the folder structure/file naming specifications, and the materials the discs are made of. The movies are the exact same 3 codecs for both formats, the exact same audio formats are supported by BOTH, the bitrate used to encode the movies is exactly the same. The laser that reads the data is exactly the same.
The only difference is that Sony decided (once again) to invent a new format (disc chemical structure and files structure) so that they had the patent control/royalties. Every truly "new technology" of blu-ray was actually added to their original spec after they learned HD-DVD already had it. BD was originaly a HD mpeg2 format, with NO interactivity. AVC(mpeg4) and VC1 were added AFTER HD-DVD stated that was their format. Interactivity (Java) was added AFTER HD-DVD already had iHD. The big bragging right (50GB disc) was only created because HD mpeg2 was SO big it required a 45-59 mbps badwidth to play and required 29 - 49 GB to store a movie and extras comparable to the content on an existing DVD.
Existing BD discs use the exact same datarate (20-30 mbps) as HD-DVD movies, so the extra space is NEVER used. So that bragging right is useless. Especially after HD-DVD invented a 3 layer disc that could be READ and PLAYED by all HD-DVD players both old and new (51GB).
So, While I really feel HD-DVD is better, it is not because it is vastly superior. It isn't. BUT, HD-DVD is open source (i.e. no outrageous royalties or control), uses known technology and proven chemical and manufacturing processes, and costs almost the exact same as producing a standard DVD disc. So, in the long run. HD-DVD discs will run the same costs as DVD (both media discs and published movies) while BD is currently being subsidized by Sony to proce compete. As soon as there is no reason to price compete, Sony stops subsidizing, and can charge their preferred fees for the use of their technology/process. So, currently we have $19.99 DVDs, $24.99 HD-DVDs, and $34.99 BDs. As soon as HD-DVD dies, the prices will be $19.99 DVDs and $45.00 BDs.
People are always saying mass production drives down prices, so the materials for BD discs will be cheaper after they have been in production for a while. BUT, HD-DVD discs run about 50 cents more than DVD discs, while BD discs run about $2.50 more than DVD discs. and that isn't newness. That is the material cost, because certain materials are just more expensive than others. (Gold vs. iron, Diamond vs. quartz, etc.) so while BD costs will go down, they will never go BELOW what HD-DVD costrs would be.
I'll fight to the end to keep HD-DVD going. I feel everyone would be better served if they would merge formats and just send a firmware download for all players to read a universal structure as well as the native player design.
Long Live HD-DVD!!!
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looks like the movie industry is going to make up our minds for us...
they shoulda called HD-DVD something snappy like Diamond Ray...or somesuch -
Cmon man, having 'DVD' in its name was the whole point of creating the format
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huh?
I'm going back to sleep -
mpiper where the Hell do you get your facts!
Bluray was developed first, then came HD-DVD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
Both were developing interactivity, HD-DVD wanted to use Microsoft's iHD and Bluray wanted to use Sun Java's BD-J. Ironically, since you claim to be about OPEN FORMATS, why wouldn't you support Bluray since it uses Java's BD-J as opposed to Microsoft's iHD but nevermind....
MPEG-2 support was for BACKWARDS support, so the players could play DVDs.
VC-1 is again another Microsoft format - gee wonder why since Microsoft supports HD-DVD.
If you knew the origins, Bluray has H.264/AVC for HD which was developed by MPEG, again another standard...do you notice a trend......
So for all your whining about SONY controlling and you wanting openness you are supporting the one format that is closed and proprietary...gee go figure.
Oh an HD-DVD tried to use regular DVDs for HD but failed and decided to develop their own blue laser equivalent. So yes you are right they are both basically the same if you mean that HD-DVD wanted to be like Bluray except use Microsoft proprietary formats. :P -
Nilfennasion
HOW MUCH IS fony/sony PAYING YOU TO SUCK THERE DICKS ? -
This has already been denied. I just saw two news stories including one on Bloomberg, where Paramount denied that it is about to defect. They will continue to support HD-DVD.
Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief. -
Just a matter of time though, and probably not that much time either.
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This whole thread is based upon and refers to something that says absolutely nothing. "Paramount is poised to . . ." is a meaningless and useless statement. Don't get me wrong - I have no illusions about the fate of HD-DVD - but referring to nonsense like this "article" doesn't help anyone.Originally Posted by tzm
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Hello Ladies
- Jul 2003
- Studio 54
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aQMGgh2LV_bU&refer=japan
Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD (Update2)
By Andy Fixmer and John Liu
Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology.
However, with their (Paramount) cluase, I would also agree that it's just a matter of time before they (Paramount) decides to move to BD discs. As time goes on, BD players will over come HD-DVD's and at that point they'll have to switch in order to keep they're revenue stream going. -
mpiper.
Nice explanation. Simple and to the point.
Tony -
Well, that tears it. There goes another sign of the impending Apocalypse. When Universal announces they're switching, I'm getting out the sackcloth and ashes.Originally Posted by tzm
Good thing they didn't release too many major titles on HD-DVD.
What really pisses me off is that a talentless hack like Michael Bay finally gets his way. -
This "bitter war" has very little to do with which format is "better". It is about big business market share and control. All of the behind the scenes antics are aimed at this one thing. As consumers, we are interested in the pros and cons of each format. That's the normal way to look at something like this. Of course we want the format that is the "best" however we may view that. But the motion picture studios have a more narrowly defined view of all of this. Their point of view is defined by, "Which format best maximizes our overall interests and future revenue." They all realize that the dual formats impede the market for HD video. They all know that something has got to give. The big studios are interested in taking an active role in defining the ONE standard. The lesser studios are interested in determining the "winning" format and following suit. Only after there is one format will the big bucks start rolling in. As I mentioned in a previous thread, one of the aces in the hole that BluRay has is a more sophisticated copy protection structure. There is no HDDVD equivalent to BR+. I'm not interested in discussing the ins and outs of BR+ as to whether it works or not or any other techno-blather about it. The only thing that matters is; do the studios think it is better. Let's face it, they are all suckers for better copy protection - real or not. Underneath all the other thrashing in the format war, that has to be a significant factor.Originally Posted by mpiper
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They're both propriety. The difference is that the HD DVD technology is available for free. You and me can go out and author an advanced HD DVD title today without much cost. To author an advanced BD-HDMV title you need to pay Sony thousands in licensing fees.So for all your whining about SONY controlling and you wanting openness you are supporting the one format that is closed and proprietary...gee go figure.
BD-J is still somewhat rare on BD discs. You don't need to write a JAVA application to author 90% of the titles you buy. In Fact HDMV authoring is very easy if your a spec level DVD author already. BD-J is vaporware for most title applications until someone comes up with a way to do it fast and affordable. In fact I'll be in Barecelona in 3 weeks to check out a new GUI based BD-J system.
I'm happy with this decision. Now we can all relax and concentrate on 1 format and do it right! I'm just pissy because most of my time has been spent with HD DVD. I only wish I could have been involved with BD a year ago. Now I need to move on but the problem is that Me or my clients won't have the cash to cough up to Sony for some time....so I guess my hands are tied.
You have to understand MPiper's frustration with Sony though....They tried to come up with something new and different and it's not. Consumers are pawns of the "Powers That BE....." You think consumers had much of a choice in this matter? Ah...NO!
Long Live Blu Ray!!
However, I am still flabbergasted that there is such a bitter war over what is essentially the exact same format. The only REAL difference is the folder structure/file naming specifications, and the materials the discs are made of. The movies are the exact same 3 codecs for both formats, the exact same audio formats are supported by BOTH, the bitrate used to encode the movies is exactly the same. The laser that reads the data is exactly the same.
This "bitter war" has very little to do with which format is "better". It is about big business market share and control. All of the behind the scenes antics are aimed at this one thing. As consumers, we are interested in the pros and cons of each format. That's the normal way to look at something like this. Of course we want the format that is the "best" however we may view that. But the motion picture studios have a more narrowly defined view of all of this. Their point of view is defined by, "Which format best maximizes our overall interests and future revenue." They all realize that the dual formats impede the market for HD video. They all know that something has got to give. The big studios are interested in taking an active role in defining the ONE standard. The lesser studios are interested in determining the "winning" format and following suit. Only after there is one format will the big bucks start rolling in. As I mentioned in a previous thread, one of the aces in the hole that BluRay has is a more sophisticated copy protection structure. There is no HDDVD equivalent to BR+. I'm not interested in discussing the ins and outs of BR+ as to whether it works or not or any other techno-blather about it. The only thing that matters is; do the studios think it is better. Let's face it, they are all suckers for better copy protection - real or not. Underneath all the other thrashing in the format war, that has to be a significant factor
Well Said
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Hey look! A link I provided you in the post on the other thread!Originally Posted by RLT69
Actually, I do appologize for confusing some things. I was an avid reader of this stuff starting in 1999, so most of the rough stuff is from memory. Yes, Blu-ray (UDO) technology was created by Sony first. And the DVD forum considered using it, but the cost was considered prohibitive. My mistake, I admit it! I remembered the BD cartridge version and thought the non-cartridge came after HD-DVD.
Java for BD was announced in 2005, around same time as iHD /HDi was announced. I use XML, so maybe I remember the exact order of announcements wrong. I can't find an exact date for iHD, so I won't argue. (Yet! he he). And I actually was referring to the cost to produce movies on disc when I referred to open source. The iHD IS open source. It is XML (as I said) and the development can be conducted on any machine with any compatable xml tools. Microsoft even provides a jumpstart kit for download (FREE) with an emulator for testing your code. Wouldn't that be described as open source? And free? Of course, this begs the question of why BD players were released with 1.0 spec that did NOT allow use of BD-J, and now their getting ready to roll out spec 2.0. HMmmm, does someone have trouble finalizing prior to release? I thought only Microsoft Windows did that!Originally Posted by RLT69
Well, I read articles in the past with quote from Sony execs saying mpeg2 was the best, even compared to mpeg4, etc. I can't find the exact articles now, but below, the pcpro article link is one similar to what I read back in 2005. The arstechnica one talks about Sony's patents, etc. VC-1 was a late addition. Mpeg4 was the codec of choice for HD-DVD.Originally Posted by RLT69MPEG-2 support was for BACKWARDS support, so the players could play DVDs.
VC-1 is again another Microsoft format - gee wonder why since Microsoft supports HD-DVD.
Yep. BD has mpeg4, an open source format. So does HD-DVD. And, they both have VC-1, that evil Mocrosoft codec. As well as mpeg2. And both camps had their fair share of dead ends, such as hd on DVD, cartidge BD, etc. And how exactly is Hd-DVD closed and proprietary? The DVD forum created the spec, and it is open for all. Microsoft's parts are not closed. The codec, iHD/XML, etc. are all available with no extraneous licensing fees.Originally Posted by RLT69
I am not against BD. But I think the extra hoops BD has made everyone jump through (spec 1.0,1.1,2.0; not all audio formats being standard for BD players, inventing a new technology for discs that wasn't really needed, etc.) should be considered and used to extrapolate what will happen if a monopoly exists for HD movies. Every good thing about BD has been due to competing against HD-DVD. And, to be fair, most of HD-DVD's were also due to the competition. But HD-DVD formalized and attempted to be consistent, accessible, and price-concious.
Laters!
Here's some links for items I mentioned:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/feature_microsofthddvdinterview.html
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/80953/last-century-codecs-for-nextgen-bluray.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051208-5713.html -
Couple more nails:
http://digitalbits.com/#mytwocentsWell... we've had SOME confirmation this morning of the details of the Financial Times story from last night. While the studio isn't yet commenting, reliable industry sources are telling us that Paramount is indeed preparing to end their HD-DVD support and announce a return to the Blu-ray fold. Details are currently being finalized, and an announcement is expected as soon as they're complete. Paramount's first new Blu-rays will almost certainly include many of those titles that were cancelled last year, but that were already packaged and ready for shipping, so you could see them in stores very quickly once the studio announces.
Meanwhile, sources are telling us that Universal has also been talking with the BDA, and is looking to follow Paramount and Warner's lead as soon as possible.
On a related note, Times Online in the U.K. is now reporting that as many as 20 additional firms currently backing HD-DVD are also considering defection in the wake of Warner's Friday announcement, including Fujitsu, Lenovo, Kenwood and Pony Canyon (which is a major Japanese film and music studio).
What's more, word is starting to circulate at CES that major big box retailers will begin winding down in-store support for HD-DVD as soon as these studios go public with their decisions. We're told that the industry's major retail partners are already pressuring Paramount, DreamWorks and Universal to go Blu following Warner's decision.
Rumors are also beginning to circulate here that Apple's Steve Jobs may announce the addition of Blu-ray Disc drives to their Mac desktop lineup at next week's Macworld Expo in San Francisco.
We would caution you to keep in mind that all of this should be considered unofficial until the studios make their actual announcements. Things are moving very fast, and the situation is highly fluid. Still, it really looks like this is the end for HD-DVD, and the end of the format war overall. We'll keep you up to date with new developments as they break.
Stay tuned... -
MozartMan, quoting a couple of guys who eagerly get down on their knees and fellate Blu-Ray at the drop of a hat is not exactly a credibility-booster.
Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things. -
I don't have a dog in this fight, although I do own a HD DVD player that I bought last year 'cause it was cheap. Other than the 5 free movies I eventually get for buying the HD DVD player, I don't own any disks. I rent them all. I have been looking at Blu-Ray players also, but they still seem too expensive. I also download a lot of my non-HD movies from online services like Amazon Unbox.
In any case, I have been reading the posts about Warner and now this thread, and I seem to notice that almost all of the people commenting "in favor of" HD DVD seem pretty analytical and relatively unemotional.
This RLT69 person seems to be gloating about Blu-Ray's impending "victory" and HD DVD's impending "defeat" for some reason, as if he were a fan of a major-league baseball team which is ahead 3 games to none in the World Series.
Such a blatant overly-emotional and adversarial attitude and strident aggrandizement of Blu-Ray seems odd.
Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, but RLT69 is starting to piss me off with his attitude. -
Come again???
Posts accusing people who post news that phrases the argument in favour of Blu-ray or who rightly predict the mass leaping to HD-DVD's defence of being paid to fellate Blu-ray is hardly an unemotional response, sorry to say. In fact, when you get right down to it, it is one of the most childish forms of response that could take place over what just happens to be an assembly of electronics.
Warner Bros.' decision was not based on anything other than good business. That is what a lot of people arguing about this crap seem determined to forget. Warner noticed that not only were HD sales in both formats suffering because of consumer confusion, so too were sales of the plain old SD flavour of optical disc. So something had to be done. Remaining neutral was not an option, and neither was going HD-DVD exclusive because having the title-share split right down the middle would only amplify consumer confusion and hurt sales even more.
The response to every time someone quotes Bill Hunt or his colleagues is also a weak, emotional, even irrational response. As Hunt points out in his article about why the Bits were getting behind Blu-ray, they have a track record for being right more than they have been wrong. And the things that they have been wrong about are things not to sweat any. They predicted Warner would go Blu-ray based on the common business sense I previously outlined. The one thing they were wrong about was the timing.
Compared to Toshiba, Sony come off as positively angelic here, anyway. It is because of Toshiba that we still have to explain to those who whinge about the decline of VHS that when you are watching a Sergio Leone film and the picture "fills up" a 4:3 screen, you are in fact missing out on half of the image. And who else but Toshiba would call a consortium of companies where they bark and the others jump a forum? Not to mention that our ability to make copies of our own DVDs comes in spite of Toshiba (largely thanks to the carelessness of Xing, who were rewarded with being written out of the DVD specification), not because of them.
Just as there is enough greed to go around for both sides, it appears there is enough irrationality for their supporters, too. It is enough to make one hope there will be another forum like this for when HD duplication in the home becomes affordable or realistic."It's getting to the point now when I'm with you, I no longer want to have something stuck in my eye..." -
Very well said! A brief, but most thoughtfull and complete analysis . I disagree with only one statement: : "Only after there is one format will the big bucks start rolling in." Even if we are down to one HD Disk format tomorrow, it will be a long time before the Big Bucks come rolling in. The Studios all think that as soon as the format war is over, HD sales and profits will take off like a rocket. All the retailers and CE companies think likewise. I think they are all wrong.Originally Posted by SCDVD
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Nilfennasion:
I wasn't so much decrying the lack of emotionalism of any HD DVD defenders as I was the puzzling, triumphant gloating of others (one in particular).
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