AVI conversion to H264 for iPod not quite working

[rumplestiltskin]

This is a strange issue and an even stranger workaround but I don't know the real cause (and would love to identify it). Bear with me.

I have the Perian plugin (v1.0) installed. I have some AVI's (Xvid's) with mp3 audio. If I drop them onto MPEG Streamclip, I get the spinning beachball of death. If I drop them onto QT Player, they play properly. If I export them to iPod (H264) using QT Player Pro, the process completes normally but my iPod refuses to accept them. If I convert them using ffmpegX for iPod(640x,H264), I get the same result.

So I re-open the original AVI's in QT Player and do a "Save as..." to a .mov file. Obviously, the Xvid is still inside but the container has changed to a ".mov". If I drop that file onto MPEG Streamclip, it opens the file without a problem and converts it over to an H264 which my iPod will gladly accept. If I use ffmpegX to convert the ".mov" over to H264 (again, using the iPod 640x preset), the resulting file also drops into the iPod just fine. I also used QT Player Pro to export the ".mov" to an H264 for the iPod and it drops into the iPod without complaint.

Just for grins, I used QT Player Pro to export from the original AVI to an MP4 (not H264) and this file drops into the iPod okay.

I then tried Divx Doctor on one of the original AVIs and then dropped the resulting file into MPEG Streamclip. No problem opening the file or converting it over to H264 (and it did drop into the iPod).

Now you might say I need to "doctor" all the AVIs I get before converting them to H264 but, over the last two years I've only had to run three or four through Divx Doctor. All I am receiving now seem to need this.

Changes in my system since the time everything worked as expected:

Changed from a white Core2Duo iMac to an aluminum Core2Duo iMac. (10.4.11 on both systems, fully updated with all Apple updates, QuickTime, etc.) The only third-party QuickTime components I've added have been Perian 1.0 and Flip4Mac (which were also on the white iMac).

Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!

[terryj]

Are you not running Toast(7 or 8) rumple?
Toast comes with it's own DIVX component,
what if you remove Perian and just use Toast's DIVX component?
Does the issue still persist?

It sounds like from the overall posting that Two Quicktime based apps
(Player and Mpegstreamclip) had problems accessing avi files
that were either encoded with the xvid codec, or was using a
xvid decoder ( most likely Perian) that glitched in accessing
something related to, and I'm reaching here, an xvid library call
in the stream, that got horked by containing it within an avi container?
And by either doctoring it, or "wrapping it" in a new container,
caused it to "fix" the issue.

What did VLC throw up when you tried to play the .avi files rumple?
Did it give you a debug menu and list of where the lib errors began?

try that and let us know.....

[rumplestiltskin]

VLC finds nothing wrong with the AVIs.

I'll clarify my original post, as well:

QT Player opens and plays the AVI files but the export to iPod(H264) isn't kosher (per iTunes, as it won't permit me to drop it into the iPod). (They do play in all apps, though.)

ffmpegX also converts the files to iPod(H264, 640x) but they won't drop into the iPod.

MPEG Streamclip hangs when attempting to open any of the original AVIs.

Running the AVIs through Divx Doctor (or "saving as..." through QT Player Pro) lets MPEG Streamclip open the files. These "doctored" AVIs now convert to H264 (in MPEG Streamclip, QT Player Pro, or ffmpegX) that -can- be dropped into my iPod.

All the original AVIs can be converted to MP4 and -will- drop into the iPod.

When Divx Doctor does its thing, it says something about "flattening" the file with QuickTime. (Not sure if this is significant.)

Divx Doctor changes the codec of the AVI from Divx to 3vix.

I remember that my old Mac did have the Divx component from Toast but I did not install it in the new Mac. I'll do so and then report back.

Thanks, terryj, for your assistance.

[rumplestiltskin]

An update:

Removed the Perian component and installed the Toast Divx component. Restarted.

Dropped one of the AVIs into MPEG Streamclip and, after waiting a minute or so after the spinning beachball appeared, the file actually did open and play. The "info" about that file (from within the app) now sees "Generic MPEG4" instead of Xvid which, I'm sure, is what the Toast component is telling MPEG Streamclip.

I'm exporting that file as an H264. It will probably work fine in the iPod as, once MPEG Streamclip gets its hands on it, everything turns out okay.

I'll also try an ffmpegX conversion and post the results.

Wonder if this is a Perian bug?

[rumplestiltskin]

Update 2:

Now with the Toast Divx component (and no Perian), MPEG Streamclip can open the original AVI (after much beachball spinning) and successfully converts it over to H264.

However, using ffmpegX the conversion (while reporting success in the info and playing well in QT Player), will not drop into my iPod.

I'm in the process if trying another conversion with ffmpegX and will report back.

[terryj]

sounds like your on the right track rumple.
Though why the bug exists in Perian is weird.

I decided to point you this way because I've got Toast 8
and Perian both installed with both codecs in, and I've had
one .avi act in a similar fashion ( QT refused to open, until
I removed Perian, and then just left Toast 8 DIVX Component in).

Funny thing is though, since that one, I've put the Perian Codec back in,
and never had it happen again.

[rumplestiltskin]

Update 3:

Using Toast's "Export" function to go from the original AVI to iPod H264. I selected that option in the popup menu provided by Toast. I was going to reduce the audio quality but going below 128kb eliminates the 48KHz option. I'm leaving it there and am beginning to wonder if the problem is audio related instead of video.

[rumplestiltskin]

Update 4:

No bueno. Using Toast creates an H264 that iTunes won't even copy into its Library. Of course, the iPod won't accept it either.

Time for a Mac-lobotomy & a re-install.

Edit: The file Toast created was copied into the TV Shows part of iTunes (rather than Movies) so I didn't see it at first. It did sync with my AppleTV but, again, would not drop into the iPod. (Yep; time for the lobotomy/re-install.)

[terryj]

your "copied into the TV Shows part of Itunes" part is normal
doing this through Toast, rumple. I had this happen everytime
I did it using Toast's Divx codec and QT Pro, but mine would all end up
in Movies, not TV Shows.

It's one of the reasons I switched to (doing .avi to .mp4 to iPod)
Visual Hub, as VH does this all seemlessly, and makes things
"iPod Compatible". Just a thought, in case you want to
give up the "free" option.

One last thing, if you created a Playlist that always "synced to Ipod"
upon connecting, and put the .mp4 in the playlist, would it
attempt to sync to the iPod, or give an error?

[rumplestiltskin]

Update 5:

Okay; did the erase & install for Leopard; updated everything. The problem with the H264's (from AVIs) created with ffmpegX or QT Player Pro remains. Those two apps have no trouble opening or working with the AVIs but the resulting H264's won't drop into (or sync with) the iPod.

MPEG Streamclip will, eventually, open the AVIs (after much beachball spinning). (Perian 1.0 installed.) The H264's created with MPEG Streamclip are perfect.

If I run the AVIs through Divx Doctor (or use QT Player to "save as" a self-contained ".mov", those newly created files open almost immediately with MPEG Streamclip. All three of my conversion apps (QT Player Pro, ffmpegX, and MPEG Streamclip) will make good H264's from the doctored AVIs (which are now, of course, in ".mov" containers). The iPod accepts these converted files without complaint.

I'm now starting to lean back toward blaming Perian. However, as all it seems to take is a fairly quick "save as.." in QT Player or a doctoring with Divx Doctor to then end up with a file that converts successfully, I'm not in full panic mode (*grin*).

I do know that this is not a Leopard issue as it existed in Tiger (on the same aluminum iMac). I'm wondering if this is somehow hardware related as I do not remember this occurring on my previous (white, Core2Duo) iMac.

Does there exist an app that would provide a complete detail of the H264 metadata, etc.? I'd love to compare the working and non-working H264's in an effort to identify where the problem resides.

As always, thanks to any who would reply.

[terryj]

Does there exist an app that would provide a complete detail of the H264 metadata

hadn't tried this yet, take a look and let me know what you find out.

good luck rumple.

[rumplestiltskin]

Videospec finds nothing different between an H264 that came directly from an AVI (that doesn't go into the iPod) and an H264 that came from a "doctored" version of the same AVI (that does drop into the iPod). So the differences are more subtle than can be discerned by that app.

*grumble*