Good Starter Cam in a tight budget?

[acid_burn]

Hello everybody

Well today I had a mosquito bite and it comes out now I wanna try the next step, and that is buying myself a camcorder.

I have been going through online reviews for the past 4 or 5 hours, including a lot of topics here and places like camcorderinfo.

It would seem like if it was going to be easy but unfortunately just like everything else I want the decision takes weeks or months

So, I was kind of wrong before, because I thought I would get away with a cheap ($200) cam and that's it.
Lets face it, the average joe doe has those.

But since I always have to stick the damn geek part on it, then I'm guessing now for that budget all I'm getting is a good cam for recording a wall or the floor

So a little background here.
I want it mostly for hobbyist film making. It doesn't have to be perfect, but obviously I want a little bit of "pro" here if you know what I mean.
Maybe I'd like to play around with blue/green screens.
And just mostly "everyday" stuff... I know its kinda hard to figure out what I mean, but lets say family meetings, parties, occasional night shooting while hanging with my friends and like I said, some amateur filming of people dressing funny and on green/blue backgrounds for later chroma keying or whatever you guys call that (and I hope I can do that with a freeware/open source software, if not then please recommend me a really, really, cheap one :P).

So that's it.

Now, the fight WOULD be between DV (MiniDV) and HDV, but GOD!! HDV is really expensive. I hear HC1, HC3, HC7 etc, but those are really expensive.

So Im stuck I guess with the old format, the DV and while I have my eyes on the DCR-HC96 given the fact apparently its "the best of the worst - a welcome to the wonderful world of why even 500 dollars is not enough for something descent", I'm afraid its a little out of my budget.
I was thinking more on the ~$250-300 range.

Is there any camera you could recommend for my needs in that price range?

While I wasnt expecting good things from this adventure, I was a little convinced $500 bucks would give you a lot in this business but it comes out you start screaming "Yes, it rocks" at 3 grand or more

Please help this poor newbie out :P

Thanks for your time

[thecoalman]

So Im stuck I guess with the old format,

Just because it's older doesn't necessarily make it worse. The HDV cams have higher resolutions but also utilize a much higher compression so the gap is not all that great. There's other issues too such as lack of software etc, it's not editor friendly and you need cray computer to encode it. For the enthusiasts or even professional mini-Dv is still a viable format.

some amateur filming of people dressing funny and on green/blue backgrounds for later chroma keying or whatever you guys call that (and I hope I can do that with a freeware/open source software, if not then please recommend me a really, really, cheap one ).

The cam really has nothing to do with this, it's done with software. Properly preparing your shoot is the most important thing. Ulead Video Studio is fairly cheap with chroma keying capability. Not sure if there is any freeware apps for this.

While I wasnt expecting good things from this adventure, I was a little convinced $500 bucks would give you a lot in this business but it comes out you start screaming "Yes, it rocks" at 3 grand or more

$500 bucks is on the higher end of consumer models, you're not going to get much with a budget like that. Once you get into $1000+ you are getting into the prosumer range. There's a lot of good cams in that price range. The fundamental differences between the consumer and prosumer cams is larger CCD's, manual settings such as shutter speed,, accesory attachments(hot shoe) and larger lenses. Professional cams have even larger CCD's, more options and detachable lenses. Having said that most of the footage I've seen taken with recent consumer models is quite good, it's when you get into situations where manual adjustments would work better that they become a problem.

Sorry don't have a suggestion for you because I only have my own cam i would feel qualified giving advice on but that's in $2K range. One thing I would look for is the low light capability and one with manual settings if you can find it.

[handyguy]

Visit Circuit City, look for open box buys, which are usually in the case, try one of those. You can try it & return it, there shouldn't be a restocking charge on those.

[SCDVD]

One thing to keep in mind about HD cameras is that since the pixel size is smaller on the CCD, they tend to not perform as well in low light. They are often a couple of F stops less sensitive which makes a huge difference in low light situations. Low light is one of the most common problems with shooting video. A friend of mine is a wedding videographer. He bought a HD camcorder but usually doesn't use it very much to shoot weddings for this reason.

[towtruck]

Darn it if I don't really like my PV-GS320. 3 CCD's for about $400.00 at Beach Camera. It's hard to decide what you want/need w/o having some experience first. You can always upgrading later. Also, the technology is immature and changing rapidly for HD. I'd wait until it stabilizes and prices drop.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1936-p3-s1-d1.html.

[acid_burn]

Alright, thanks for your time

[edDV]

You are in Germany and shopping for NTSC? If stateside and in a large city, great used bargains can be had on Craigslist for MiniDV camcorders. Many people buy these or get them as gifts but never use them. Local Craigslist makes it possible to see and test the cam before purchase. Quality models from a few years back can be had in your price range.

As for new, the Panasonic 300/320 or Canon Eluras offer great value. If you don't want to do the research, follow the camcorderinfo.com ratings list.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

The effects you want will require software. ULead Video Studio is a good starter program and is usable as your skills build. Later you will want a prosumer edit/effects program.

[acid_burn]

Dang!

I don't know why, maybe because of crappy amazon reviews but I basically skipped on the PV-GS320.

2 votes so far, and reviews in camcorderinfo aren't that bad but still there is the tough choice... that or DCR-HC96 for 100 bucks more...

What mostly kills me is that reviews are in the lines of "this is basically a crap camera. You are lucky if you can actually take a video with this thing!!!! Now... if you are going to buy this, consider the better options in the 20k range, I mean after all whats 19K more? NOTHING!!"

Maybe Im guessing most of these reviews are meant for the independent movie maker or something

I dunno, still a lot of doubts.

Ulead Videostudio seems overall nice and cheap.
Im guessing prosumer range is premiere pehaps? And pro range Avid something or that Liquid (dont know if they are the same product), but those are probably more expensive than actually a pro camera

Anyway, thanks again for your help

[edDV]

Dang!

I don't know why, maybe because of crappy amazon reviews but I basically skipped on the PV-GS320.

2 votes so far, and reviews in camcorderinfo aren't that bad but still there is the tough choice... that or DCR-HC96 for 100 bucks more...

What mostly kills me is that reviews are in the lines of "this is basically a crap camera. You are lucky if you can actually take a video with this thing!!!! Now... if you are going to buy this, consider the better options in the 20k range, I mean after all whats 19K more? NOTHING!!"

Maybe Im guessing most of these reviews are meant for the independent movie maker or something

I dunno, still a lot of doubts.

Ulead Videostudio seems overall nice and cheap.
Im guessing prosumer range is premiere pehaps? And pro range Avid something or that Liquid (dont know if they are the same product), but those are probably more expensive than actually a pro camera

Anyway, thanks again for your help

Look at the Canons as well.

Learn a low end program front to back first then you will know what else you need. Vegas is a good next step. Premiere Pro is more difficult to learn but great for corporate work and web publishing. Avid is up there in price and specialized. Liquid is just a Pinnacle product relabled by Avid after they bought the company.

[thecoalman]

Dang!

I don't know why, maybe because of crappy amazon reviews but I basically skipped on the PV-GS320.

2 votes so far, and reviews in camcorderinfo aren't that bad but still there is the tough choice... that or DCR-HC96 for 100 bucks more...

I usually don't trust reviews unless you have very high percentage for or against. Most people only review something they don't like. If you find something highly rated though you can pretty much bet its a real good product.

Try searching through the forums at camcorderinfo for the model your looking at. If there are any major issues with it you will most likely find posts with the same complaints.

[towtruck]

Yeah.. those were my two finalists as well.....

The Sony has a bit better low light performance due to the bigger chip, but I didn't consider that so important.... goo video is best obtained outdoors or with good lighting (unless you get into high-end professional stuff)... better to use the extra hundred bucks (I think theres actually a greater price diff) for a light.

Also, I understand sony has a touchscreen for navigating menus (what a pain)... I like the joystick on the panny.

[MJA]

Dang!

I don't know why, maybe because of crappy amazon reviews but I basically skipped on the PV-GS320.

2 votes so far, and reviews in camcorderinfo aren't that bad but still there is the tough choice... that or DCR-HC96 for 100 bucks more...

I usually don't trust reviews unless you have very high percentage for or against. Most people only review something they don't like. If you find something highly rated though you can pretty much bet its a real good product.

Try searching through the forums at camcorderinfo for the model your looking at. If there are any major issues with it you will most likely find posts with the same complaints.

\

check the Canon ZR500.I bought one for my sister last year .not a bad camera and cheap.

(used for $149)

here is a clip (52mb)

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t131848.html

[acid_burn]

Dang it you guys are helpful.

Thanks a lot.

In fact MJA, I have been downloading user videos all night... hopefully this will make the difference as I feel Im getting closer... watching videos from the "how good does it look" perspective turned out being 100 times better than reading bitching reviews online

The ZR500 surprinsingly with that price seemed good, but still after watching the videos about mostly the GS320 I think I have fallen in love
The ZR500 looks a bit "super camera 2000 for all your family birthdays!!", but maybe Ill try more videos.

EDIT: Im now heading towards the Panasonic GS80/85 (I think 80 since I don't even have old 1920 VHS tapes to digitalize and also I wont be buying external mics).

The thing now is, Im a little confused about resolution
I thought DV was after all the same for all (7xx x ???) so basically all recordings in MiniDV will end up with the same resolution... but then I see the HC-96 had like 20xx x 18xxx res, while this GS80 has like 320x240, what gives