No HDMI input on my 1080p TV??

[sam9s]

OK Guys I have landed myself in to a big problem by purchaning 2 very expensive products for viewing video content at 1080p. The story......Recently bought the
philips 29" 29PT8836 HD ready CRT TV. along with Philips HTS4750 home theater with HDMI out.

NOW the big problem.............atleast for me.....is that though my player can upscale DVD to produce 1080p resolution through HDMI my TV supporting HD 1080p resolution does not have the HDMI input, it only has the component in, AND I could not find any HDMI to component converter or adapter in the market nor online. There are all kinds of conveters and adapters except the HDMI to Component strange may it seems I have no idea why. I am in a fix now, how am I suppose to play the upscaled DVDs on my CRT. Foolish of me to overlook this before buying and foolish of philips not including an HDMI input.

Also I could not find any conventional player that gives HD out via composite video not even any philips own player.

The home theater player does not have HD out over composite and TV does not have HDMI inputs what the heck........

Plz help me out here guys .....spend a fortune over this......

[Grain]

If your TV doesn't have an HDMI input, I highly doubt if it's 1080p capable. That it's still a 4X3 box could also mean it's only 480 NTSC or 540 PAL native, ie all HD is downconverted before displaying. Check into that first before spending more money on another upconverting DVD player or other signal converters.

The only DVD player I know of (there are certainly others, but not many) that upconverts over component and is PAL capable is the OPPO DV-970HD, but it's doesn't do a very nice job with PAL discs.

[offline]

Please use a subject title that better defines your question. I have edited it for now. Thanks

[Denvers Dawgs]

Well it does say his tv allows 1080P:
Supported Display Resolution
Video formats : 480p, 60Hz, 720p, 50, 60Hz, 1080i, 60Hz, 1080p, 60Hz

[manono]

The home theater player does not have HD out over composite

Because there's no such thing. They're not even supposed to do it over component, although a very few do. You have no digital connections on the TV. But if you use component cables and let the TV do the scaling, you should be OK. Since it's CRT, who knows what the "real" approximate resolution is. Don't even think about using composite cables with this thing. Should of researched this before you bought it.

[sam9s]

If your TV doesn't have an HDMI input, I highly doubt if it's 1080p capable. That it's still a 4X3 box could also mean it's only 480 NTSC or 540 PAL native, ie all HD is downconverted before displaying. Check into that first before spending more money on another upconverting DVD player or other signal converters.

The only DVD player I know of (there are certainly others, but not many) that upconverts over component and is PAL capable is the OPPO DV-970HD, but it's doesn't do a very nice job with PAL discs.

4x3 means it is not wide screen, we cannot say if its not supporting 1080p if its 4x3 can we?, and as denver said the specifications does say it supports 1080p at 60 hz. Is there a way we can run a test to check the truth.

[BJ_M]

"support" doesnt mean a whole lot

[sam9s]

The home theater player does not have HD out over composite

Because there's no such thing. They're not even supposed to do it over component, although a very few do. You have no digital connections on the TV. But if you use component cables and let the TV do the scaling, you should be OK. Since it's CRT, who knows what the "real" approximate resolution is. Don't even think about using composite cables with this thing. Should of researched this before you bought it.

mmm well AFAIK component are capable enough to support 1080p. Any way to check what exact resolution the TV supports. At what res does xbox 360 display games coz AFAIK xbox supports HD over component......check this link for the cable specs

Xbox 360™ Component HD AV Cable

If xbox can solve the purpose I can arrange one and try playing a game to test my TV (if all xbox games support 1080p)

[edDV]

The home theater player does not have HD out over composite

Because there's no such thing. They're not even supposed to do it over component, although a very few do. You have no digital connections on the TV. But if you use component cables and let the TV do the scaling, you should be OK. Since it's CRT, who knows what the "real" approximate resolution is. Don't even think about using composite cables with this thing. Should of researched this before you bought it.

mmm well AFAIK component are capable enough to support 1080p. Any way to check what exact resolution the TV supports. At what res does xbox 360 display games coz AFAIK xbox supports HD over component......check this link for the cable specs

Xbox 360™ Component HD AV Cable

If xbox can solve the purpose I can arrange one and try playing a game to test my TV (if all xbox games support 1080p)

I think your expectations are beyond the technical reality and I also suspect that Philips spec sheet to be in error in two ways*.

1. They say "display resolution" when it should say "input resolution". I know of no 4:3 TV CRT that displays 1080i or 1080p on a CRT and certainly not in a consumer CRT. A typical consumer HD ready CRT TV will scan 576-1080i but display resolution is limited by the shadow mask to the range of 768x576 to 1024x768. When a set says it will "display" 720p, it usually means it will allow progressive scan at up to 720 progressive lines but again horizontal resolution will be determined by the processing electronics and CRT shadow mask.

2. Your souce is a normal 720x576 DVD. Upscaling this to 720p or 1080p does not add resolution to the picture. It just divides the picture into different numbers of pixels and may add some limiled filtering. Your TV processor is called "Pixel Plus". It does the same thing from a 576i or 576p input but matches the upscale to the internal scan electronics.

"Pixel Plus for better details, depth and clarity
Pixel Plus is a digital picture processing technology that increases the number of lines and the number of pixels. The result is razor sharp pictures with incredible detail and depth, every time from any source. "

If that TV even accepted 1080p, this "Pixel Plus" processor would process and convert that to the internal scan circuits of the TV. That would probably mean it halves horizontal from 1080 to 960 and then converts 1080p lines to 540p, 576p or at best 768p. Note that 1080i is scanned as two 540 line fields.

So, connect your player with analog component and test DVD playback at 576i, 576p (normal DVD) or 720p (upscale) and see which looks better to you.


* The other major deception in the spec sheet is this is a 4:3 tube and 720p, 1080i and 1080p are by definition 16:9. Now I fully support 4:3 as a display when most TV watching will be at 4:3 but display of 16:9 on a 4:3 CRT by necessity lowers the vertical "display" resolution. Here is how 16:9 HD is shown on my 4:3 Philips CRT.



The vertical display resolution will be reduced because the shadow mask is limited to 80-90% of its height. The above dimensions are for a 27" Philips display. Not to worry though because for a 27-29" display viewed at normal distance, you won't notice the difference in vertical resolution. Just don't expect this to behave like a computer monitor viewed at one half meter distance. This TV is for watching from 2+ meters.

[edDV]

At what res does xbox 360 display games coz AFAIK xbox supports HD over component......check this link for the cable specs

Xbox 360™ Component HD AV Cable

If xbox can solve the purpose I can arrange one and try playing a game to test my TV (if all xbox games support 1080p)

XBox360 will display best at 480p, 567p or 720p over analog component with that set. Try each and see if you like the way the Xbox scales or the TV scales better in your eyes. Use a 720p XBox game. Most aren't 720p yet.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/

[edDV]

PS: I just re-read that TV spec and noticed the lack of 576i, 576p support in the specs. This is odd for a PAL TV. Only 480p is supported for SD. This is not good news for 576p native DVD or native PAL 576i broadcasts. Your remaining options are to downscale DVD to 480p or upscale to 720p. PAL broadcasts are probably all upscaled to 1080i (540 lines per field) and then downscaled in the "Pixel Plus" processor to the CRT scan circuits.

[manono]

mmm well AFAIK component are capable enough to support 1080p.

mmm yourself. I said most players don't output Hi-Def over component. Neither does your X-Box output 1080p for DVD over component. It's not allowed. Games, yes; DVD, no. You need digital connections for that.

Progressive-scan DVD playback in 480p

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/

[gshelley61]

It's a 29" 4:3 CRT tube TV. I doubt if it will actually display more than 500-600 lines of resolution no matter what it scans at. The display resolution capability of CRT's is limited by the shadow mask (or aperture grill) the screen has. Sending it a high definition signal won't change that and will not result in more detail than the tube is capable of displaying.

[edDV]

I don't want to generate a lawsuit but most USA domestic consumer TV manufacturers mislead about resolution as seen from the people side of the tube or flat display. In the USA they mostly deep spec a "native display resolution" or use "480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i" without a horizontal spec for CRT but never have I seen a major company ad state the following. In the USA this would be a field day swarm for enterprising class action lawyers.

"Supported Display Resolution
Video formats : 480p, 60Hz, 720p, 50, 60Hz, 1080i, 60Hz, 1080p, 60Hz "

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/tree/en/in/consumer/tv_gr_in_consumer...specifications

[Werder]

As in many cases - marketing and product folks are disconnected.

If you go to page 5 in the user manual it states YPbPr input supports 480p and 1080i - that's it.

[jman98]

Well it does say his tv allows 1080P:
Supported Display Resolution
Video formats : 480p, 60Hz, 720p, 50, 60Hz, 1080i, 60Hz, 1080p, 60Hz

I've seen this kind of language used on TV sets sold in the USA that have resolutions barely above 720p. What it apparently means is that the TV is capable of doing SOMETHING with the listed input. In the case of a TV that can't display anything above 720p, this means that it downscales 1080i and 1080p to 720p for display, not that it can actually display 1080i/p video at those resolutions.

[sam9s]

Well it does say his tv allows 1080P:
Supported Display Resolution
Video formats : 480p, 60Hz, 720p, 50, 60Hz, 1080i, 60Hz, 1080p, 60Hz

I've seen this kind of language used on TV sets sold in the USA that have resolutions barely above 720p. What it apparently means is that the TV is capable of doing SOMETHING with the listed input. In the case of a TV that can't display anything above 720p, this means that it downscales 1080i and 1080p to 720p for display, not that it can actually display 1080i/p video at those resolutions.

Well I cant do much about it, I cant return it, there is no such thing as returning......I am trying to arrange an Xbox 360 and hope it displayes at atleast 720P, even that looks very good and is above what normal CRTs offer.

[BJ_M]

If you go to page 5 in the user manual it states YPbPr input supports 480p and 1080i - that's it.

[sam9s]

Hey all shall I try connecting my computer with the TV through DVI 2 COMPONENT cable. I have a 7800GT. Would that give an idea as to what res the TV actually supports........

[zzyzzx]

Perhaps it's just an impression of mine, but I don't think it's common to find a HDMI input on any CRT type TV. It's practically standard on LCD types though. Note that I only bother to look at smaller TV's though.

[edDV]

Perhaps it's just an impression of mine, but I don't think it's common to find a HDMI input on any CRT type TV. It's practically standard on LCD types though. Note that I only bother to look at smaller TV's though.

Newer CRT TV sets have HDMI. Philips USA started with VGA (480p, 540p only), then moved to DVI (480p, 540p*, 1080i) then HDMI (480p, 540p, 1080i).

The display resolution on 4:3 tubes is still ~ 650 "lines of horizontal resolution" (~ 800x600) which isn't bad for a mid size CRT. All those people upscaling DVD to 1366x768 are seeing less resolution than that.


* 540p is one field of 1080i at 29.97 frame rate (would be 25 fps for PAL)

[zzyzzx]

Perhaps it's just an impression of mine, but I don't think it's common to find a HDMI input on any CRT type TV. It's practically standard on LCD types though. Note that I only bother to look at smaller TV's though.

Newer CRT TV sets have HDMI.

I haven't seen one yet, and I have been looking at all the new ones 20" with the ATSC tuner and none have HDMI inputs (yet). Probably will happen eventually, it's just that the manufacturers are really dragging their feet on the whole ATSC tuner conversion.

[edDV]

Perhaps it's just an impression of mine, but I don't think it's common to find a HDMI input on any CRT type TV. It's practically standard on LCD types though. Note that I only bother to look at smaller TV's though.

Newer CRT TV sets have HDMI.

I haven't seen one yet, and I have been looking at all the new ones 20" with the ATSC tuner and none have HDMI inputs (yet). Probably will happen eventually, it's just that the manufacturers are really dragging their feet on the whole ATSC tuner conversion.

Current Philips models have the ATSC tuner and HDMI. The previous generation of "HD Ready" sets had the HDMI connector in the Philips brand line. A Similar "Magnavox" branded model had only YPbPr input for progressive.
http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/tree/en/us/consumer/tv_gr_us_consumer...V+26PW9100D_37

[sam9s]

Hey guys I got the component cable this saturday, I could'nt find DVI to Component cable anywhere, so may be ed is right. Video is looking Amazing through component. My TV shows input as 576p when I play my Matrix Reloaded DVD. One thing more I returned my Philips HT and kept the TV. Would be going for a dedicated audiophile spk setup later.
Ok now I am facing a different issue. While playing DVD through component out why am I not getting the audio. I am using my old DVD player its philips DVP 5500S

It have a 5.1 distinct channel out plus a coaxial out in the player. I am not getting any audio from any of the 5.1 channel while playing through component video. I am getting audio through coaxial though, but I dont have any thing to connect the coaxial out to get the audio. Usually the thing to do is to connect the front right and left to the right n left audio in of the TV to atleast get the sound in stereo, but its not working when I play video through component out. I only get audio when I play through the usual composite out. Is there anything obvious I am missing here.............Kindly Guide....

[sam9s]

Hey I got this sorted out....sorry it wasnt that big a problem......the TV gives out audio via seperate AV out specifically made while playing component video.........so while using component you have to use only those two Audio out to get the audio.......strange if you ask me.........neeway m getting the audio now as well and the video also looks very clear at 576p. M trying to arrange an xbox 360, lest see how display at 720p looks. If I play a DVD through xbox would xbox have an option to upscale it to 720p...............

[edDV]

The TV is only capable of two channel stereo. Audio input to the TV is usually red and white RCA connectors but may be over SCART where you live. Surround sound AC-3 (coax or optical) requires a separate sound system with a Dolby Digital decoder and separate amplifiers for 6 audio channels.

The RF coax connector includes audio if you are direct tuning TV channels. The audio will be one or 2 channel stereo through that path.