Do you prefer printed manuals or digital manuals for software?

[yoda313]

These days printed manuals aren't as common as they used to be. Do you prefer to have a physical manual you can read when you buy a software package or video game?

I guess I do prefer having the printed document over the common pdf file. Though these days everything is online anyway so I guess it doesn't matter so much any more.

How about you? Would you prefer more software companies include printed manuals or is online/on disc copies enough for you?

[gadgetguy]

I prefer printed manuals that allow you to keep the manual open and try things as you read through. If it has a cheap binding that won't stay open or breaks chunks of pages out, then it might as well be a pdf.

[darkknight145]

printed manuals are preferable, but they would add to the cost of software.
my may peeve is software user manuals that you can't access until you install the software.....of course the installation instructions are in this manual........DOH!!

[gll99]

Tough one.
I like both. Hands on paper manual lets you read it anywhere but after a while I lose them in a box somewhere. Pdf or other digitized format let's you search for keywords and quickly find possible multiple references to what you want. In a pinch I can print my own copy.

[edDV]

PDF's. I usually skim the manual before purchasing the product.

[BJ_M]

PDF's - i rairly , if ever, open a printed manual and usually lose them anyway

[redwudz]

I like the PDF manuals. I usually download them before I order a device, then when it arrives, I'm already familiar with it. I can keep them on my computer hard drive, and when I get too many, burn to CD or DVD data disc for archiving. I also like the ability to enlarge a detail on a page and print it if needed.

[Epicurus8a]

Print.

[ZAPPER]

Prefer printed out of the given options, but interactive tutorials can be the best for use that need the show and tell

[Nitemare]

Printed. My monitor isn't beig enough to run the software and view the PDF at the same time... I have to keep clicking back and forth which is a pain in the @$$

[NiteLite]

PDF's. I usually skim the manual before purchasing the product.

I like the PDF manuals. I usually download them before I order a device, then when it arrives, I'm already familiar with it.

Excellent advice.
Being from an older generation and devices becoming more for the technically minded a .pdf can actually determine if I purchase or not. I'll know if it's what I want and have a head's up on the "how to's".
Also need the printed manual for after setup to learn the features.
So both are good and have value. I would vote for both.
NL

[ozymango]

Man, I hate pdf manuals.

I do love a good, well-designed interactive manual for software (e.g. a help menu I can use that actually works and has the info I'm looking for. I think Adobe, ironically, has some of the better interactive help menus (semi-web-based) but I hate, hate, HATE pdf help files.

The reason I hate pdfs is simply because:

* They're a pain to search through
* You have to zoom in/out to read the #$@# thing
* You have to update your pdf software constantly if you want to open half the documents you find
* Much harder to cut and paste text when you need to clip something for your own purposes later
* More I'm leaving out.

Though I do like that companies archive manuals using PDF, just because otherwise you wouldn't have any manuals, though a lot of these are just basically glorified photocopies of some paper manual.

[AlanHK]

They're a pain to search through
* You have to zoom in/out to read the #$@# thing
* You have to update your pdf software constantly if you want to open half the documents you find
* Much harder to cut and paste text when you need to clip something for your own purposes later

With most PDFs, you can search text with control-F and find words, much better than an incomplete index.

Zoom is control+. control -, as in other Adobe apps, spacebar to move around a page. Pretty easy once you get the hang of it..

I still use Acrobat 4, and it can read every manual I've tried, so I never updated it.
And to cut and paste, you can use the text, and the text area tools. (How is that worse than a paper manual? Do you use scissors?)

If you refer to something every day, a real book is nicer, but for all my random odds and ends of hardware, many of which I purchased second hand, I found the manuals online and can stash all the PDFs on my hard disk and have instant access, and print out pages if I need to look at a diagram. Some companies, like Apple and HP, sell their hard copy manuals at extortionate prices, and tried to restrict access to technical info. But most of them have leaked and can be found if you dig around.

[oldandinthe way]

I loath Acrobat, pdf files and everything adobe.

Like everything Adobe makes, the acrobat reader is slow, counterintuitive in operation and frustrating. The acrobat reader plugin for ie is always keeping us waiting while it checks for updates.

We finally have trashed Photoshop finding that consumer grade tools have evolved to meet our needs. This is a huge timesaving. We trashed Pagemaker years ago. And find no reason to invest in Premiere.

[lordsmurf]

You can create and read PDFs without using Adobe software. The free PrimoPDF, for example.

[edDV]

Beg to disagree. Before Acrobat it was near impossible to distribute documents unless everybody had MS Office and/or also owned WordPerfect and every spreadsheet and every presentation program. The only common document was a FAX.

Acrobat as an idea was brilliant but I'd agree the implementation has become bloated.

[ozymango]

I still use Acrobat 4, and it can read every manual I've tried, so I never updated it.

Then you're lucky -- I work for a university and one of my jobs is tech support; we have PDF forms up the kazoo and not a week goes by that we don't have a support call because somebody can't open a PDF form that somebody else created.

Now, true, most PDF forms are much better than the alternative, for circumstances where you're trying to create a "look" that you want to duplicate cross-platform, so I do know that PDF's are a necessary evil.

And to cut and paste, you can use the text, and the text area tools. (How is that worse than a paper manual? Do you use scissors?)

Well, I don't cut-and-paste paper manuals myself, and I don't remember commenting on paper manuals. Again, I like a digital "help" file, but I much prefer some implementation of html or xml for searchable documents just because I (personally) find it much easier to search and edit in html or similar. PDFs, to me, are more about presentation than interaction, so yeah, sure, you can search using whatever keys, but having had to search through a 200-page PDF and a 200 "page" html document, I'll take html anytime!

EDIT: Also I think we're talking slightly at cross-purposes here because I'm not really talking about a "manual" in terms of having a resource book to give me specific mechanical data about something (like a workshop manual or something, or for hardware devices where it's probably much handier to print out smaller sub-sections to have at hand when putting in a clutch or something).

When it comes to computer stuff in general (software and hardware), my idea of a "manual" is much more fluid -- there's usually about 20,000 things that the software can do that I don't really use, so I tend to dive in and look up specifics as I go.

Now, the bulk of my own work on a computer involves trouble-shooting hardware and software problems (at work), or doing video/audio projects (home) or writing (both!). I may be using ten different pieces of software, all at the same time, and most of my problems are "of the moment," like I can't remember how to insert a macro in Excel, or what the CSS coding is for a float, is it padding or margin for spacing, or I'm editing in Premiere and always forget what the settings are for 7.5 IRE). :P

So, I consult my "manuals," which are virtually always some kind of html doc or web link or something interactive-realtime where I'm kinda using the entire internet as my reference manual. Mostly because whatever "problem" I have, I'm not even sure how to figure out where to look it up in the manual. Y'know, the variation on a theme of, how do you look up a word you don't know how to spell in the dictionary?

[AlanHK]

I still use Acrobat 4, and it can read every manual I've tried, so I never updated it.

Then you're lucky -- I work for a university and one of my jobs is tech support; we have PDF forms

We were talking about manuals. Forms are a whole other thing. I don't know much, or need to fortunately, about those. I do DTP for a living, which is what PDF was designed for, and use it all day, every day.

Well, I don't cut-and-paste paper manuals myself, and I don't remember commenting on paper manuals. Again, I like a digital "help" file, but I much prefer some implementation of html or xml for searchable documents just because I (personally) find it much easier to search and edit in html or similar. PDFs, to me, are more about presentation than interaction, so yeah, sure, you can search using whatever keys, but having had to search through a 200-page PDF and a 200 "page" html document, I'll take html anytime!

Thing is, PDF can be created from the same file as the printed manual. To make a half-way decent HTML file is a non-trivial job. (Look at the abortions that Google gives you when autoconverting, or the horrible HTML MSWord makes.) So the manufacturer can put a PDF file on CDR or online for almost zero marginal cost, but they would baulk at paying extra for a HTML version. So without PDF, you wouldn't get a nice HTML version, but probably something like a multi-page TIFF.

Also, PDF is a single file containing graphics, fonts and text. There is no standard way to package all that in a single HTML file; or any other format with a widely supported free reader.

[ozymango]

Also, PDF is a single file containing graphics, fonts and text. There is no standard way to package all that in a single HTML file; or any other format with a widely supported free reader.

Yeah, if we're talking specifically about a genuine user manual that can be printed out, then I'll definitely go with PDF, as it's certainly better than bad HTML.

[edDV]

...
Also, PDF is a single file containing graphics, fonts and text. There is no standard way to package all that in a single HTML file; or any other format with a widely supported free reader.

Also the PDF file carries the typefaces used and the formatting for automatic page layout. In the old days and today, you can't even get a text file with usable line breaks.

[oldandinthe way]

Just got off the phone with my brother who uses a Mac with Acrobat. (He has used everything Adobe for years and recommended it to others). He tells me that the typefaces displayed on the screen are not necessary the typefaces printed, and Adobe support tells him that that is because of bad fonts on the original document which Adobe has corrected for on the display but does not correct for on printed output.

PDF manuals are just an encouragment to avoid reading the manual. (And perhaps an acknowlegement that manuals are no longer worthwhile).

[ozymango]

In the old days and today, you can't even get a text file with usable line breaks.

Yeah, but that's a good thing -- I know we're mostly talking of printed manuals, but no matter printed or viewed, the content of a document and the format of the document aren't the same thing.

It's somewhat analogous to DVD creation: Your video content ("text") should not contain all the chapter stops ("line breaks"), that's for the DVD authoring software.

There are times I'm looking for a text file and I want a text file (for manuals). I realize we're wandering a bit from the OT, but there's a viable connection: A considerable part of my job involved document creation (web "docs" and printed) for hardware/software support, and in getting data to put into my docs, I do not want formatting in my text sources. I have to pull all that out, depending on page layout (like if I change the font size so it reads better and suddenly all the line breaks are funky).

[ozymango]

Just got off the phone with my brother who uses a Mac with Acrobat. (He has used everything Adobe for years and recommended it to others).

And PDF on a Mac is a world apart from PC users. I've got Mac OS X people who love PDF files because they've always worked great on a Mac.

He tells me that the typefaces displayed on the screen are not necessary the typefaces printed, and Adobe support tells him that that is because of bad fonts on the original document which Adobe has corrected for on the display but does not correct for on printed output.

Yeah, tell me about it. Though to be fair I dunno if this is all Adobe's fault, it's more that type libraries and fonts are a whole 'nother issue on most computers.

[ZAPPER]

Well....As long as we are bashing Adobe....And talk about setting jacking, splash screening, update screening, take forever to load and then lock my system up software...it does have its moments.

The one thing that I do tend to like about it is that it will accuratly convert/print my CAD drawings to a good format for others to veiw and print. It is about the best way I know of to keep others from tamperng with my CAD drawings and them still be able to print out larger copies with out too much distortion. Although I have marked up other peoples PDFs and returned them and then later seen my markups come back to me in a round about way as the newest and official answer and I have also seen some of my original PDF converted CAD drawings come back around as the latest approved revision with an architects stamp on them. I Don't know who eats that up more, me or my boss. LOL

But to keep this kind of on topic, I do kind of find it harder to read a document on screen verses a paper copy. Hmm, maybe it is time for a much bigger screen?

[lordsmurf]

Adobe bashing is as retarded as Microsoft bashing.

You'll have a hard time finding better tools (or even remotely similar alternative tools) to the likes of Premiere, Photoshop, Acrobat, Dreamweaver, Lightroom, InDesign, PageMaker, ... just to name a few. When it comes to professional software, they have muscle and quality you won't find anywhere else. If your Adobe software crashes, your computer has issues, as their stuff tends to be extremely stable. They've only cranked out a couple of turds in their years, such as Encore (which is easy to replace and find better/equal alternatives).

Acrobat makes PDF creation easy (remember to use press-ready mode), and a PDF is a piece of virtual paper. You cannot get that from any other kind of file, as it does not seek out font and formatting information, it's embedded. If you don't need all the PDF features in Acrobat, use a freeware like CutePDF or PrimoPDF instead.

[AlanHK]

He tells me that the typefaces displayed on the screen are not necessary the typefaces printed, and Adobe support tells him that that is because of bad fonts on the original document which Adobe has corrected for on the display but does not correct for on printed output.

Yeah, tell me about it. Though to be fair I dunno if this is all Adobe's fault, it's more that type libraries and fonts are a whole 'nother issue on most computers.

When creating a PDF you need to take care with the font embedding. Preferably, embed everything. PDFs compress the fonts and they don't add much to the file size. Otherwise you see the dorky "Adobe Serif" and "Adobe Sans" substitute fonts.

I've been making PDFs for years on my PC, mostly targetted for output by Mac-centric output centres. They always work.

[ZAPPER]

@ lordsmurf

Me we todd did! Have you looked at my PC specs? Me still on dialup, about the same as two tin cans and a string. Yes system is weaker than abbacus or finger counting. But there is still often a love hate relationship for people and their software and many other things in life too. Ford/Chevy? On my setup, Adobe always shows a splash screen while it loads, OK it is only for a second or two and maybe there is a setting to hide that, but still annoying. Then it always has to remind me that my version is out of date and that there is a newer and greater version out there. Thanks for the concern and the public service, but the reason I have the old version is because I can't afford to buy a new version, the stuff ain't cheap! Well except for the "reader", which again is always bugging you to update and buy more of their other products. Soooooo, it tends to take a couple of extra key strokes to just veiw a set of instructions, not really that big of a deal but still annoying. And for some reason, there are the PDFs that just don't open, maybe my system, maybe me. And then there are the times that it just hangs my system, again meybe my system, maybe me, but I have admitted that I am we Todd did.

Is there anything better? I doubt it. Same as MS. Is it the industry standard? I think probablly so, but I don't know nothing about the industry. And as far as bashing goes? Well, sometimes it is a little fun to vent/bash and maybe , just maybe, some thing can be learned from it and the product or it use improved.


All in good fun

[lordsmurf]

I've never had Adobe "remind" me of anything. It shows a splash for about 1 second and then I'm in it and working. InDesign is a RAM hog, but that's about it.

[Marvingj]

I rather have printed manuals. Hopefully it won't be something that companies will not stop due to the modern age we are living in. But eventually the cost of printed material will stop it from being free......

[ozymango]

I've never had Adobe "remind" me of anything. It shows a splash for about 1 second and then I'm in it and working. InDesign is a RAM hog, but that's about it.

Then you've never installed it for a bunch of users who don't have admin privileges. This is not to knock Adobe stuff (which I really like, for the most part), but Acrobat Pro wants to "patch" itself quite frequently (how many bugs can a PDF file possibly have, anyway?) and if you're not an admin, you get a funky little notice, "Acrobat was unable to update, please contract your network administrator."

So they call me, and yeah we'll push patches as needed, but dang if Acrobat doesn't patch almost as much as XP! :P