Need help ripping/burning back-up of dual-layer dvd on dual-layer burner...

[bloomcounty]

I'm getting a laptop with a dual-layer burner in it, and I want to back-up some dual-layer movie dvds onto dual-layer blanks (exact copies, no shrinking, etc.).

I'm guessing that I'd use DVDDycrpter or DVDShrink or DVDFab to rip the DVD. (Any preference on which one to use?)

Then I guess I'd use ImgBurn to burn the dual-layer dvd? Will that program just keep the layer-split where it's at and basically make an exact copy?

Or is there another/better way I should do this?

Also, any suggestions as to brand of dual-layer media? Memorex? Redata? I'd like to keep it decently priced.

Thanks for the help! I just want to get started and pointed in the right direction!

[hech54]

Try DVDDecrypter first - ISO Read then ISO Write modes.
If the DVD is too new for DVDDecrypter....use DVDFabDecrypter to rip then use ImgBurn in Build Mode to burn...although I think DVDFabDecrypter outputs .Iso images now....I'm not sure...I forgot...

[Jim44]

I'm guessing that I'd use DVDDycrpter or DVDShrink or DVDFab to rip the DVD. (Any preference on which one to use?)

RipIt4Me is also an option.

Also, any suggestions as to brand of dual-layer media? Memorex? Redata? I'd like to keep it decently priced.

As a lurker over on the ImgBurn Forums, there's one, and only one, answer: Verbatim. Many issues have been reported with nearly every other brand of DL media, it seems. Save yourself the headaches

My 2 cents,
Jim

[bloomcounty]

RipIt4Me was also an option given on anther forum, as well as your media recommendation. Thanks!

So do you think RipIt4Me is better than DVD Decrypter, DVD Fab Decrypter, and DVD Shrink?

[ZippyP.]

So do you think RipIt4Me is better than DVD Decrypter, DVD Fab Decrypter, and DVD Shrink?

It's a tool which automates the process, easier in my opinion.

[Jim44]

RipIt4Me was also an option given on anther forum, as well as your media recommendation. Thanks!

So do you think RipIt4Me is better than DVD Decrypter, DVD Fab Decrypter, and DVD Shrink?

What ZippyP said.

RipIt4Me uses DVD Decrypter & Shrink (if desired) in it's processing, so in addition to dealing with the most recent copy-protection, it acts as a "wrapper" for those products.

Sounds easy to me, dunno about "better"

Jim

[hech54]

If you are going from Dual Layer to Dual Layer.....why would you go through all that crap with Ripit4me? Straight rip from DVDFabDecrypter and burn with ImgBurn....simple.

[bloomcounty]

If you are going from Dual Layer to Dual Layer.....why would you go through all that crap with Ripit4me? Straight rip from DVDFabDecrypter and burn with ImgBurn....simple.

Okay, so what's the actual difference between using RipIt4Me and DVDFabDecrypter (or DVD Decrpter for the matter)?

Thanks!

[hech54]

A simple ISO Read and then ISO Write is a far more accurate (bit for bit) copy than running something through DVDShrink could ever do....even without "shrinking".
If you are not shrinking....why use DVDShrink?
Don't get me wrong....DVDShrink is still an essential part of my DVD-ing arsenal but again....why use it if you "ain't shrinking"?

I also believe that you will NOT be doing much Dual Layer burning once you get the burner. They (Dual Layer blanks) are still quite expensive.....especially the ones that work faithfully like Verbatim. It is still cheaper (for me) to split a disc up over two single layer DVDR's than it is using a dual layer disc....and I use pretty damn expensive Taiyo Yuden discs.
And in many circumstances....once you load a DVD into DVDShrink and take a look at how long JUST THE MOVIE is....the movie alone will fit on a single layer disc without transcoding with DVDShrink.

Dual Layer is fine in some circunstances...but more often than not.... they are just too expensive to justify.

Thats my opinion anyway....but I've been doing this for quite a while.

[bloomcounty]

A simple ISO Read and then ISO Write is a far more accurate (bit for bit) copy

So this is what doing a straight rip from DVDFabDecrypter and burn with ImgBurn will do?

I wasn't sure if DVDShrink did something else I'd need...

So if I was going to just back-up the movie protion of a dual-layer disc, and it would actually fit on a single-layer dvd, then I'd use DVDShrink to do that?

If the movie had a layer break in it originally, DVDShrink would take care of that if just the movie were being burned to single-layer, even without compression?

The Verbatim DL discs seem to be about 2.30 per disc. That seems worth it if even just the movie would otherwise need to be shrunk to fit on a single-layer...

[fritzi93]

IIRC, the documentation for both RipIt4Me and the PSL2 Plugin for PgcEdit state explicitly that they use DVDShrink to verify the structure of DVD files. It's quite strict as to what it will accept. If files do not open in Shrink, running FixVTS should correct the structure. So RipIt4Me is convenient in that it automates the process. (The PSL2 plugin gives you a choice between FixVTS and VobBlanker, BTW.) Which is not to say other methods don't work.

IMGBurn will correctly place the layer break.

[bloomcounty]

So do I need PgcEdit? The programs I was planning on installing were:

ImgBurn
DVD Decrpyter
DVD Shrik 3.2
DVD Fab Decryptor
RipIT4Me

...will I need PgcEdit in addition to those? What will PgcEdit let me do that those don't?

Thanks!

[hech54]

A simple ISO Read and then ISO Write is a far more accurate (bit for bit) copy

So this is what doing a straight rip from DVDFabDecrypter and burn with ImgBurn will do?

I wasn't sure if DVDShrink did something else I'd need...
Yes...dual layer to dual layer?....yes
So if I was going to just back-up the movie protion of a dual-layer disc, and it would actually fit on a single-layer dvd, then I'd use DVDShrink to do that?
That is the easiest way to do it yes...because of DVDShrink's preview screen(to make sure you have the whole movie) AND you can remove extra languages, subtitles etc leaving you with Movie Only - No Menu...but 99% of the players today can easily handle no menu.
If the movie had a layer break in it originally, DVDShrink would take care of that if just the movie were being burned to single-layer, even without compression?
Yes....you'll never even know where the break was.
The Verbatim DL discs seem to be about 2.30 per disc. That seems worth it if even just the movie would otherwise need to be shrunk to fit on a single-layer...
These are arguably(by some of course) the best single layer DVD's made today:
http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=1736-1...ode=TAIYOYUDEN
- They are better and more reliable than 99% of the store bought crap out there and 100% more reliable than ANY dual layer media....again....in my opinion. The choice is yours.

PgcEdit will come in handy later in your DVD-ing career....but you don't need it now....:

[fritzi93]

...will I need PgcEdit in addition to those? What will PgcEdit let me do that those don't?

Thanks!

Nah, The PSL2 plugin is just one MORE method of ripping problematic discs (in conjunction with DVDDecrypter). Sorry. Confusing, isn't it?

PgcEdit can be really useful for lots of other stuff, but you'll know when you need it, which isn't now, for sure.

[VegasBud]

bloomcounty,

While an "exact copy" of the original may sound good, it's not the best choice, or even possible with the new copy protection methods. Just ripping the original to the hard drive changes it. Personally, I believe (like others in this thread) that RipIt4Me is the best ripper currently available. By using its' automated multi-stage process, the resulting rip is actually improved over the mess that comes out of a simple rip.

An additional factor to consider in backing up a disk is the decrease in reliability of a disk as it approaches the outer edge. The NIST still hasn't released the full study they conducted over the last several years, but glimpses of what they found pop up periodically. In this article, one of the NIST researchers talked about the "edge effect". By avoiding the use of the outer 10% of the disk, the useability jumped from 91% to 98%, with most of the errors occurring in the outer 5%. Consequently, if you want to make the best backup possible, you need to remove anything you don't want before the burn (to reduce the project size). Even removing the warnings (which you certainly don't want) can slightly increase the reliability of the backup. If you don't want the previews, even better. By also removing unneeded audio (other languages), the reliability increases even more. VobBlanker is the perfect freeware cleanup tool for this.

On dual layer, reducing the project size is even more important, as the layer break is always at the farthest out edge of the burn, and the most affected by the "edge effect".

You may not need PgcEdit (for now), but it's very useful for skipping over any blanked material, which eliminates the pauses leading up to the menu. Since you asked about dual layer, PgcEdit can also be used to select the layer break, and lets you preview the video where the layer break is going to go. That comes in very handy on many disks.

By the way, I agree with fritzi93 that opening the rip in DvdShrink, even if you're not going to transcode, is a good practice. If it opens, you know your rip is clean. If it fails to open, you know the rip has problems that need to be corrected.

Also, when using ImgBurn for burning dual layer backups, an ISO is unnecessary, and can introduce layer break selection problems.

[fritzi93]

Also, when using ImgBurn for burning dual layer backups, an ISO is unnecessary, and can introduce layer break selection problems.

Yeah, the exception being if you output an ISO from PgcEdit after manually setting the layer break.

Seems this discussion recurs every couple of weeks. It isn't long before it gets into whys and wherefors, and starts going completely over the head of the OP, who is usually a novice. :P

[bloomcounty]

Okay, so the program that does the actual ripping is either DVD Decrypter, DVDFab Decrpyter, or RipIt4Me, is that right?

If I use RipIt4Me, is there any reason to even have Decypter and FabDecrypter? Or is it good to have all installed just in case (or for any other reason)?

Then I'd use DVDShrink and open up what I've ripped with RipIt4Me and make sure it opens okay?

Then I'd use VobBlanker to get rid of the stuff I don't want? (But I thought DVDShrink let you do the same thing, even if you're not shrinking?)

Will VobBlanker let me get rid of menu links, etc? Or would I have to use PgcEdit for that?

Also, would I really have any reason to change where the layer break is? Especially if I was just backing up the movie itself (maybe even minus the menus)?

If so, then I'd have to do that with PgcEdit?

Then I burn dual-layer with ImgBurn?

And just to make sure, there's no spyware/malware/etc. that comes with either PgcEdit or VobBlanker, is there?

Also, when using ImgBurn for burning dual layer backups, an ISO is unnecessary, and can introduce layer break selection problems.

It's probably not surprising that I don't know what this means... Is this something I need to be aware of, or is it something ImgBurn is going to handle on it's own automatically?

Thanks for the help and fielding these questions!

[VegasBud]

Also, when using ImgBurn for burning dual layer backups, an ISO is unnecessary, and can introduce layer break selection problems.

Yeah, the exception being if you output an ISO from PgcEdit after manually setting the layer break.

That is, indeed, the exception.

[VegasBud]

bloomcounty,

RipIt4Me uses DvdDecrypter for the actual ripping part, so you need both. Whether you also have DvdFab Decrypter available is entirely up to you.

VobBlanker can remove what DvdShrink can, plus more...so you might just as well use VobBlanker for all of it.

To remove menu links, you'd have to use PgcEdit, but it isn't really necessary. If the material is blanked, clicking a menu link to blanked material just brings you back to the menu.

Using ImgBurn for the burning, and Verbatim +R DL disks will make for the easiest, most reliable dual layer backup.

None of these programs contain spyware, adware, malware, etc.

No, you don't have to learn abut ISOs. Yes, just let ImgBurn handle things for you automatically.

EDIT:
Sorry, missed the part where you asked about changing the layer break.

Anything that changes the size of the material to be burned will affect the layer break. That would include blanking, menu changes, audio deletion, or the removal of unreferenced material.

[hech54]

bloomcounty....you are getting WAY ahead of yourself...
I use:
DVDFabDecrypter
DVDDecrypter
DVDShrink
for my DVD backups...plain and simple.
There is A LOT you can do as far as burning a customized DVDR from your original....but you do not need to learn all at once.
KEEP IT SIMPLE....take advantage of the guides that are available for each tool.
PRACTICE....practice now if you like. You can create DVD folders today from your original DVDs and play them on your computer without burning them. I did that exact thing before I even owned a DVD burner.
Just make sure to remember where you put these VIDEO_TS folders so you can delete them....they will be quite large...

[bloomcounty]

Anything that changes the size of the material to be burned will affect the layer break. That would include blanking, menu changes, audio deletion, or the removal of unreferenced material.

But I don't have to set the layer break myself, ImgBurn will "reset" the layer break in the appropirate spot, is that right?

I guess I'll just install all those programs. They don't conflict with each other, do they?

Thanks for fielding all my questions!

And thanks to everyone else for the help too!

[VegasBud]

But I don't have to set the layer break myself, ImgBurn will "reset" the layer break in the appropirate spot, is that right?

It's a little bit of each. When you're going to be burning a dual layer, ImgBurn pops up a "Create Layer Break Position" window that lists the available layer break choices. There are colored stars in the left column. Green is the best choice (if available), then blue, then gold, and finally silver. Click the best choice, and then the OK button to close the window. It's not difficult or involved.

No, the programs won't conflict with each other.

[Seeker47]

bloomcounty....you are getting WAY ahead of yourself...
I use:
DVDFabDecrypter
DVDDecrypter
DVDShrink
for my DVD backups...plain and simple.
There is A LOT you can do as far as burning a customized DVDR from your original....but you do not need to learn all at once.
KEEP IT SIMPLE....take advantage of the guides that are available for each tool.

I'm with you on this. What others failed to mention is that PGCEDIT (and, to a lesser extent, VOBblanker) are relatively advanced tools. When I've tried to use them, I need extreme hand-holding from the guides, and even then a lot of what is being presented remains nearly impenetrable to my degree of understanding. I guess I'm just not that technically inclined. Available time, interest, and sheer expediency have so far kept me not that far beyond the novice level. So I really gravitate towards the tools that have Ease of Learning / Ease of Use, and, as you said, I try as much as possible to keep it simple. One can always move on to fancier tools, as the need arises and as one's skills advance. Stuff like VirtualDub is somewhere well off on the horizon for me.

Frankly, I got kind of stymied just looking at the Build Mode menus for IMGBURN, and did not pursue that subject further. But now I see there are apparently some guides on using IMGBURN, so that will become one of the next things I take a look at.

[hech54]

I use VirtualDub quite often for editing clips for YouTube uploads. I don't know all that much about Codecs so I'm sure my workflow/process in Vdub could be shortened dramatically. Right now I demux, convert the AC3 to .WAV...and output to uncompressed :AVI(mostly....though I experimented with Xvid)...then convert to .FLV with Riva FLV Encoder.
I've also done some filtering/sharpening/restoration experiments with Vdub.
It is a great editor....I like it much better than Mpeg VCR though Mpeg VCR can do the same basic editing WITH AC3 audio.
I must be a glutton for punishment...

[bloomcounty]

Okay, another question...

Do I need Nero to burn my dvds when using these various programs? I think some of them work in conjuction with Nero, right?

I don't have access to Nero (I thought I did), but instead I have Easy Media Creator 7. Will that work with these programs just the same to burn dvds, etc.? (There's also something on my laptop that came with it called Sonic.)

I believe I use ImgBurn to actually burn dual-layer dvds, right? Or is that using another program in conjunction?

Will I be okay just having Easy Media Creator 7 (and maybe this Sonic program that's already on there)?

Thanks!

[bloomcounty]

Sorry, I meant to say "Nero" not "Roxio" -- I fixed the previous post.

Wash, rinse, repeat!

[VegasBud]

bloomcounty,

ImgBurn burns dvds all by itself, and doesn't require any other software to complete the task. If you just stick with ImgBurn, you'll have fewer problems, especially with dual layer.

[bloomcounty]

bloomcounty,

ImgBurn burns dvds all by itself, and doesn't require any other software to complete the task. If you just stick with ImgBurn, you'll have fewer problems, especially with dual layer.

Gotcha. But I was mainly planning on using the Easy Media Creator to burn cds and convert cds to mp3, etc. I'm I cool having it on my laptop and using it for that and using ImgBurn for dvd burning? I wasn't sure if just having it installed caused any kind of conflict or problem...?

Thanks!

[VegasBud]

bloomcounty,

The only possible problem would be if you were running both programs at the same time, and they competed for access to your burner. As long as you only run one of the burning programs at a time, you shouldn't have any problems.

[Jim44]

Along those lines, ImgBurn will generate an error if it *can't* obtain exclusive acces to the DVD drive ("unable to lock drive" or similar, IIRC). As VegasBud said, as long as you have no other CD/DVD burning application running at the time, ImgBurn won't have a conflict.

Jim