How do I rip a DVD to a format with I-Frames?

[FreddieMercury]

I used to have a whole process to do this a couple years ago using 5 software programs, now can't remember how I did it. I've searched all over this site but can't find info.

Basically I need convert content from DVD to MPEG-2 (or other format) but the MPEG-2 file needs to be in I-Frames format so it can be edited in software like Adobe Premiere. (It would also be nice to be able to deinterlace the footage well, which most software usually messes up.)

Has any easy-to-use commercial software finally been released that can handle this in one step? I know there's lots of software that says it rips DVDs, but are the any that allow me to specify I-Frames in the MPEG-2 stream? (And also possibly deinterlacing?)

[jman98]

I know nothing about Premiere because it costs a fortune and I've never bought it. I can tell you that it's not possible to rip as I-frames only and anyway, I-frames only isn't valid for DVD. I would be surprised if this is really a requirement of Premiere. If it is, then maybe you should consider getting an MPEG editor like VideoReDo or MPEGVCR which have no such restrictions and can do frame accurate editing on MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 video. I think there is some chance that you have a misunderstanding of the requirements to edit your footage and any ripper you use will put the footage automatically in a format that Premiere will understand, but someone who uses Premiere will need to confirm that.

[FreddieMercury]

Actually most editing software can't edit standard IBP-frame-based MPEG-2 (the type on DVDs) very well, because not all the frames are present, so the MPEG-2 stream used for editing should be encoded using I-Frames only. Otherwise, the editing software has to "guess" what is between the I-Frames, and it ends up being very slow and inaccurate. (I'm assuming the MPEG editors above must have defeated this obstacle, so I might give them a try but unfortunately they're probably not as good at editing as Premiere.)

Of course when I create an MPEG to put back on DVD I use a standard DVD-compliant MPEG stream using IBP frames...I just need "I-Frames-only" for editing....

[rkr1958]

Let me first say that I'm not familar with Adobe Premiere, but why don't you convert and work with AVI. For example, you could use DGIndex to convert your DVD to AVI, or frameserve it if you wish to save space. By doing this all the frames are I-frames.

[jman98]

Actually most editing software can't edit standard IBP-frame-based MPEG-2 (the type on DVDs) very well, because not all the frames are present, so the MPEG-2 stream used for editing should be encoded using I-Frames only. Otherwise, the editing software has to "guess" what is between the I-Frames, and it ends up being very slow and inaccurate. (I'm assuming the MPEG editors above must have defeated this obstacle, so I might give them a try but unfortunately they're probably not as good at editing as Premiere.)

Of course when I create an MPEG to put back on DVD I use a standard DVD-compliant MPEG stream using IBP frames...I just need "I-Frames-only" for editing....

Sounds to me like Premiere costs an awful lot of money to have this defect. VideoReDo and MPEGVCR cost about 50 dollars. Neither requires I-frame only. MPEG editors have been around since at least 2001 if not sooner than have not had this requirement for I-frames only.

You can rip your DVD, convert to AVI using some lossless codec and wasting a ton of disk space, edit, and then convert back to DVD, but that would be kind of stupid as the conversion back to DVD would decrease the quality. I think what has happened is that you don't know how to do anything except with Premiere and you have painted yourself into a corner with your requirement to use it. MPEG editors have some nice features, but it's your call here. If you are determined to do things "the Premiere way", then you are apparently going to have to convert your videos twice (DVD -> AVI -> DVD) and you will lose quality this way.

[turk690]

It depends on how massive an editing job you want to do with an MPEG file. For a simple few cuts inexpensive MPEG editors will do, like those bundled with TMPGEnc. But when it gets more complex the process becomes very slow, blips can occur, and the horror of loss of sync between audio and video rears its head up.
I use sometimes use Premiere Pro 1.5, which is NOT as expensive as some people think; it started as as Premiere Pro bundled with an ADSTech PyroPro Firewire card, for which I paid about $400 for the lot (including Audition, Encore and some other ersatz s/w). I went to 1.5 later by paying US$99 for the upgrade CD; I did not upgrade to the latest 2.0 that Adobe wants you to do because Premiere Pro 1.5 can do all that I ask it to, except, indeed, edit MPEG files accurately.
To get around this, after I obtain the MPEG file from somewhere, including but not limited to DVDs (processed through DGMPEGDEC (formerly DVD2AVI), for example), I then input it to TMPGEnc Express and choose the output to AVI mode. The resident AVI codec I have in my PC is MainConcept DV, and after it's through processing I have bonafide type-2 DV AVI files, whose audio and video remain IN PERFECT SYNC no matter how I mangle them, and can easily be edited with Premiere Pro fastly and accurately with all that is inside of Premiere's arsenal.
The process may be long-winded, but even after I convert the AVI back to MPEG to author a DVD with, the quality has NOT degraded to the point that I would be bothered with; in fact most of the time it's hard to distinguish from the original.
How nice it would be if simple MPEG editors can maintain perfect sync while you cut and chop an MPEG file. Indeed, I then wouldn't have to re-encode. But the results are NEVER predictable. The one glaring issue IS ALWAYS loss of sync between audio and video after I collate my edited project back to an MPEG file; more than enough to tear my hair out with after a day's (& night's) work.
So for important projects (like *.ts files taken from a PVR's HDD) I go through the dgmpegdec-tmpgenc xpress-premiere pro route to GUARANTEE success.
I did not like Premiere in the beginning, too, mostly because it has a VERY steep learning curve. But it's NOT a professional NLE for nothing, and I have slowly learned its ins and outs so I have to take exception at implications that I am possibly "being swept into a corner" if I insist on using it.
For those who are afraid of Premiere, they may want to try Adobe's watered down version Premiere Elements. It might spark a fire in the professional you.

[edDV]

If frame editing is important why not just decompress the DVD MPeg2 to uncompressed YCbCr? Adobe Premiere Pro doesn't edit I frame MPeg2 native directly. It will decompress to YCbCr or RGB. Why have two decompressions?

I think you are missing the simple solution. That is unless you are disk space limited and willing to accept quality compromise.

[FreddieMercury]

Sounds to me like Premiere costs an awful lot of money to have this defect. VideoReDo and MPEGVCR cost about 50 dollars. Neither requires I-frame only. MPEG editors have been around since at least 2001 if not sooner than have not had this requirement for I-frames only.

You can rip your DVD, convert to AVI using some lossless codec and wasting a ton of disk space, edit, and then convert back to DVD, but that would be kind of stupid as the conversion back to DVD would decrease the quality. I think what has happened is that you don't know how to do anything except with Premiere and you have painted yourself into a corner with your requirement to use it. MPEG editors have some nice features, but it's your call here. If you are determined to do things "the Premiere way", then you are apparently going to have to convert your videos twice (DVD -> AVI -> DVD) and you will lose quality this way.

Actually, MOST traditional editing programs are like that, not just Premiere. When you don't have all I-frame-based MPEG-2 or other format, the editing program has to guess every time you go one frame forward or backward. When you use IBP MPEG-2 (DVD), not all the frames are there...the computer or DVD player has to improvise all the missing frames. DVD-compliant IBP MPEG-2 isn't designed for editing; it's not a defect with the editors, it's more of a defect with DVDs since they weren't made with editing in mind.

Ed I'll try the YCbCr/RGB thing. As Turk has said, even when I have managed to edit IBP MPEG-2, I do get problems like loss of sync and weird frame problems. Also Turk: In the past I've transferred files to DV format for editing (since Premiere doesn't generally have to render DV), AND made an identical transfer to an I-frame based uncompressed video file. Then when I'm done editing in DV, I can have Premiere replace the DV source files with the identical uncompressed files, and for me it's always re-rendered the entire thing again perfectly using the uncompressed files That way it doesn't have to be bumped down to DV at all, and you also don't have the burden of slow editing with uncompressed files.

[edDV]

Premiere Pro supports* uncompressed (YCbCr or RGB) and native DV editing. Yes you can import MPeg2 and use all the Premiere features. The problem with importing MPeg2 is sluggish performance and long timeline renders. If all you are doing is cuts editing, you might as well use a Womble product. If you are doing serious editing, better to decompress Mpeg2 or use the Mainconcept MPeg2 timeline Plug-In
( http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=7850 ).

* Premiere Pro native formats

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/supportedformats.html