February 17, 2009 - the analog deadline.

[AlecWest]

Television showrooms will undergo a noticable change on May 25th. The FCC just mandated that, by that date, all analog TVs must be marked with a label, telling consumers that the TV will no longer be able to receive broadcast signals without a special digital converter box after February 17, 2009 - the analog deadline.

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=3145333&version=3&local...Y&pageId=3.6.1

I know in my area, Comcast cable is already preparing consumers by offering free use of a digital box for a year ... after which the first box will cost $4 a month with each additional box costing $1 more. I picked up mine today. The signal actually looks a tiny bit sharper through the box, too. As an incentive beyond the free year, Comcast is giving box recipients free access to On Demand movies, about 4 or 5 extra video channels, and all the digital audio music channels. However (evil grin), right now, my box gives me access to ALL channels - including all premium channels (no kidding). But, I suspect that they'll "address" the box sooner or later and cut me back to the channels I should have. If they don't, I'll face a moral dilemma, hehehe. Should I fess up or shouldn't I?

FWIW, the box they gave me has no brand markings on it. Only a stick-on label that says "Comcast" and a few others with numbers on them (and a Made In China sticker). It's about the size and color of my cable modem. The neat thing is that, on the back, the box has the usual RF in/out sockets ... but also has the 3 RCA outputs (1 video, 2 audio) for analog purposes. Convenient for my Hauppauge capture card (grin). I'll be scouring the On Demand offerings to see which ones I want to capture and burn to DVDs. A brief glance at the list tells me I should buy a few more blanks, hehe.

The only downside is that all functions of the box are controlled by a complicated looking remote control. I need to use my reading glasses to see all the markings on it. Oh, well. I'll get used to it.

P.S. Oh, yes. Among the 800 or so video channels, there were a whopping 15 or so HD channels. But (snicker), they didn't play too well on my analog set.

[RabidDog]

Shouldn't that really be analogue?

[gadgetguy]

Shouldn't that really be analogue?

Nope. We're talking about US regulations, so we get to use US spelling.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Welcome to the 21st century AlecWest.

[Marvingj]

They continue to drag there feet on this because all of the Television station has still not comply because of money and time. Watch someone will sue because of this.

[Conquest10]

Oh, believe me Alec, they will fix that. Same thing happened to me with both my boxes. They gave me all the channels for a few days before they fixed it.

Here in Chicago, Comcast is already going all digital by July. Only local channels will remain analog. Great thing about that is that it will allow for tons of new HD channels. The only problem might be that they might wait until the rest of the country switches over before they give us more channels.

[AlecWest]

Oh, believe me Alec, they will fix that. Same thing happened to me with both my boxes. They gave me all the channels for a few days before they fixed it.

I suspect you're right. They want new people "addicted" to the new channels first ... then yank them, hoping they'll get a few "upgrade" calls, hehe. Still, after six days, the Playboy channel comes in fine. Not that I watch it, of course, since there are more interesting things on the National Geographic channel.

Great thing about that is that it will allow for tons of new HD channels.

Earlier, I said my local Comcast only provided 15 HD channels out of about 800 ... but I was wrong. It's a whopping 18 (grin).

[Conquest10]

Yeah, they don't got too many HD channels at the moment. In Chicago we got 20. But Comcast also doesn't compress their HD channels like Directv does. When they cut off the analogs, it should free up room for about 250 more HD channels.

[edDV]

Shouldn't that really be analogue?

Only if you live on an island somewhere in the Atlantic that insists on talking in variations of 16th century dialects. The rest of the world has moved on dude.

BTW: I'm half Brit and suffered high school grade markdowns for such blunders as spelling "theater" as "theatre". Not that my other spelling was that great.

[ntscuser]

Shouldn't that really be analogue?

Only if you live on an island somewhere in the Atlantic that insists on talking in variations of 16th century dialects. The rest of the world has moved on dude.

BTW: I'm half Brit and suffered high school grade markdowns for such blunders as spelling "theater" as "theatre". Not that my other spelling was that great.

That's possibly because it's spelt "cinema"

I'm 100% Dutch but live on an island somewhere in the Atlantic too. The other day I spotted a manager's special on a Panasonic DMR-ES20. Only problem? It had an analogue tuner and from personal experience it's a devil of a job to timeshift broadcasts with an external digital set top box so I gave it a miss.

[edDV]

...I know in my area, Comcast cable is already preparing consumers by offering free use of a digital box for a year ... after which the first box will cost $4 a month with each additional box costing $1 more. I picked up mine today. The signal actually looks a tiny bit sharper through the box, too.

...

FWIW, the box they gave me has no brand markings on it. Only a stick-on label that says "Comcast" and a few others with numbers on them (and a Made In China sticker). It's about the size and color of my cable modem. The neat thing is that, on the back, the box has the usual RF in/out sockets ... but also has the 3 RCA outputs (1 video, 2 audio) for analog purposes. Convenient for my Hauppauge capture card (grin).

....

This new "digital" box is needed to deal with the system upgrades. There should be an optional "HD box" available to decode HD to analog component or HDMI out. Are you saying you get anything on the "HD" or digital broadcast "SD" channels? Here a non-HD box just gets audio on the HD channels.

The new cable technology keeps standard "must carry" NTSC analog on the lower channels. The digital broadcast channels are also carried as MPeg2 with QAM modulation. Cable is required to carry them without encryption as well. Beyond that are the "digital cable" MPeg2 SD and HD channels, "On Demand" VOD (a form of IPTV), internet and phone.

[mwkurt]

I am really not looking forwar to this switch over. I have noticed within the last few months
that my cable provider's (Tampa Road Runner) signal is really crap! I believe it is currently all digital. Of course I am viewing using standard TV's, but I notice quite often that the picture gets pixelated during dark scenes, during movement, etc. I see no reason for this "upgrade" other than to put money in someone's pocket somewhere. Whether is is TV manufacturers or what I don't know, but the digital signal does not appear to be a step forward to me.
Mark

[TBoneit]

Are you sure the cable companies are required to carry local HD channels unencrypted? When I scanned with my TV the local HD channels had no video. some of the shopping and extra weather feeds were there but no ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox or WLIW or NJN or WNET main feeds.

Cablevision advertises no charge for HD feeds of what you are sunscribed to, only you need the box $$$ per month rental fee.

[edDV]

Are you sure the cable companies are required to carry local HD channels unencrypted? When I scanned with my TV the local HD channels had no video. some of the shopping and extra weather feeds were there but no ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox or WLIW or NJN or WNET main feeds.

Cablevision advertises no charge for HD feeds of what you are sunscribed to, only you need the box $$$ per month rental fee.

If you have a standard cable box, there will be no picture. You need the HD cable box currently to decode the HD video.

There is another way on many systems after infrastructure upgrade. If your HDTV, computer digital HD tuner or set top DTV tuner have QAM tuning capability, you can directly tune the QAM modulated local digital subchannels without a cable box. Some set top tuners will downconvert these for display on a normal analog TV. Look for that feature.

For example, this is the current QAM lineup for Comcast Sacramento, CA. There is sometimes variation by neighborhood.

KCRA HD = 88-1
KCRA WX+ = 88-3
KVIE HD = 26-1
KVIE-2 = 26-5
KXTV HD = 88-2
KXTV 10.2 = 88-4
KOVR HD = 103-5
KTXL HD = 26-2
KTXL (tube) = 26-3
KQCA HD = 110-1

Ask for channel numbers in your local AVS Forum.

[dphirschler]

Are you sure the cable companies are required to carry local HD channels unencrypted?

Only channels which you could receive OTA for free are required to be unencrypted. For instance your local HD channels will be unencrypted but Discovery, ESPN and the like will be encrypted.


Darryl

[TBoneit]

I haven't had a cble box in years, only basic cable. As I remember it my TV should be able to decode QAM. So what you are saying is that it should be tuning the HD channels without a box. I'll have to scan again. Things may have changed since I scanned the cable before.

I already have HD via Dishnetwork VIP622 Dual + 1 non-QAM OTA Tuner DVR. It would be nice now and then to watch something else via the cable while it is busy recording two other HD offerings such as the big 4 Networks or HBO/Showtime/Cinemax/Starz HD or whatever.

Or maybe whatever they did yeaterday to get the High Speed cable working will be helpful. After they fixed it I was getting throughputs in teh range of 8Mb to 21Mb+, compared to the DSL where it's been steady at 3Mb speed. I can see the difference updates and program downloads zoom along now. I did a test of the TMPGenc software. Very fast, other sites must be bogged down or running some kind of silly speed limiting software.

[edDV]

I haven't had a cble box in years, only basic cable. As I remember it my TV should be able to decode QAM. So what you are saying is that it should be tuning the HD channels without a box. I'll have to scan again. Things may have changed since I scanned the cable before.

I already have HD via Dishnetwork VIP622 Dual + 1 non-QAM OTA Tuner DVR. It would be nice now and then to watch something else via the cable while it is busy recording two other HD offerings such as the big 4 Networks or HBO/Showtime/Cinemax/Starz HD or whatever.

Or maybe whatever they did yeaterday to get the High Speed cable working will be helpful. After they fixed it I was getting throughputs in teh range of 8Mb to 21Mb+, compared to the DSL where it's been steady at 3Mb speed. I can see the difference updates and program downloads zoom along now. I did a test of the TMPGenc software. Very fast, other sites must be bogged down or running some kind of silly speed limiting software.

First the cable system needs to complete the upgrade. If they are offering phone service at your address that is usually a good indication.

Second, many report QAM tuners fail to scan successfully. Instead ask for manual numbers in your local AVS forum. If you call the cable company they often "fail to understand the question", then try to sell up your cablebox and plan.

[ntscuser]

Are you sure the cable companies are required to carry local HD channels unencrypted?

Only channels which you could receive OTA for free are required to be unencrypted. For instance your local HD channels will be unencrypted but Discovery, ESPN and the like will be encrypted.

I'm not saying you're wrong Darryl but a friend with Time-Warner Cable in Brooklyn was told he could only have HD if he also agreed to subscribe to at least one premium channel.

[edDV]

Are you sure the cable companies are required to carry local HD channels unencrypted?

Only channels which you could receive OTA for free are required to be unencrypted. For instance your local HD channels will be unencrypted but Discovery, ESPN and the like will be encrypted.

I'm not saying you're wrong Darryl but a friend with Time-Warner Cable in Brooklyn was told he could only have HD if he also agreed to subscribe to at least one premium channel.

Time Warner must own the Brooklyn Cable Franchise Department. Anyway, this has nothing to do with cable boxes or subscription plans so long as you have basic service. You need a separate HD tuner with QAM capability.

Complain to New York City Council’s Zoning and Franchise Sub-Committee
http://www.ibrooklyn.com/site/newsevents/brooklynprogressonline/102006/article/701

[TBoneit]

They are offering Phone here, Pushing the bleep out of it in fact. The new Cable modem has a phone jack on it in fact.

However with no cell phone for backup, if I went cable phone and the power goes what have I got? Nothing.

I still had phone service after one really bad storm a few years back, power was out for days but the phone worked. Cable phone or Fios I would have been out of luck. I don't think any battery backup would run for days to keep their equipment working in the home.

I hadn't thought about going to AVSForum.

Thanks for the info.

[edDV]

You don't need their phone. It just indicates the cable system is fairly up to date.

[DereX888]

They are 'extending' the analog phaseout again and again only because they still haven't won battle over DRMs (aka "broadcast flag") which they are still trying to shove up customers asses under new names etc.
IMHO *that* is the only reason why all broadcasters haven't jumped to digital-only yet.

[edDV]

They are 'extending' the analog phaseout again and again only because they still haven't won battle over DRMs (aka "broadcast flag") which they are still trying to shove up customers asses under new names etc.
IMHO *that* is the only reason why all broadcasters haven't jumped to digital-only yet.

In just about all US markets the locals have the same programming on the analog and primary digital channel now. Main exceptions are local PBS stations that carry their local program on the analog channel and the national satellite HD channel + one or two SD channels on the digital transmitter. I don't see why any local broadcaster would turn off their analog transmitter before the "date".

Few local commercial stations are offering subchannels other than low bandwidth SD news or weather. A major exception is the SD music channel "The Tube" offered as a secondary subchannel channel program to locals. http://www.thetubetv.com/

[rotten apple]

Shouldn't that really be analogue?

Only if you live on an island somewhere in the Atlantic that insists on talking in variations of 16th century dialects. The rest of the world has moved on dude.

BTW: I'm half Brit and suffered high school grade markdowns for such blunders as spelling "theater" as "theatre". Not that my other spelling was that great.

IF i may be so bold as to suggest that your Geography may also not have been that great...

The Northern continent of America may not be the largest land mass on the planets surface however it would be incorrect geographical nomenculture to call it an island . Further to use the description of a land mass "in" an Ocean, it is not sufficient to have it along one coast ( the East where your other half comes from) only.

I understand your concern living in a backwards country eg that despite endless scientific evidence the authorities seem to confuse smack (Dog) with Cannabis. Or that the one positive such a potentially catyclismic drug as Heroin has is its ability of a super pain killer for the occassions when most unimaginable sufferring happens before natural death( only death guarantees them immunity from the addiction) Where Doctors give out aspirin/tylenol (once a week for the first two weeks in the extreme situation you accidently cut off your head) as an effective pain killer for those that suffer the equivalent lifelong/chronic pain/agony of a limb amputation(if without sensible commited risk reducing regimen opioid medication). All because of the Dark Ages draconian behaviour of the DEA so that doctors are forced to make a decission between the well being of their families or the hypocratic oath. Also the Dark Ages like to live somewhere where fanatical indoctrinated mobs ( you know the earth is flat, everyone with different beliefs is wrong. FULL STOP. and they'll all be going to hell,) are actually taken seriously by people other than the local psychiatric secure unit

While you may find a RELATIVELY more progressive society in europe i would avoid the UK like the plague. We've just had a PM who suffered permananlty from psychotic delusions - he ended up actually believing the spin his spin doctors gave him but considering the endless no. of bare faced lie and spin over his terms, even all the short sighted that voted for him in the first place stoped believing anything he said. The country is so fcuked up now that even MORE THAN JUST the unacceptability of ONE person is allowed to suffer and die prematurely because the NHS can't afford the specifc medicine ( alledgedly they can't aford to set a precedent) HOWEVER we can STILL afford to stage the Olympics ( i be delighted to know if it provides anything more important than replacable entertainment) the money for which instead could not only pay for those dying from Lack of treatment but all the cases due to a precedent being created.

[edDV]

C'est la vie

[AlecWest]

Yeah, they don't got too many HD channels at the moment. In Chicago we got 20. But Comcast also doesn't compress their HD channels like Directv does. When they cut off the analogs, it should free up room for about 250 more HD channels.

It could be so. FWIW, one of the places I was thinking about retiring was in Western Pennsylvania. They have Comcast, too. But they only have about HALF of the digital channels Portland, Oregon has. Perhaps they are preparing to use the unused channel space for HD. But, there's another profound difference out here, too. Almost all of the 600-699 channels offered are in (ulp) Spanish ... except for three (two Russian, one Filipino). One other thing I've noticed about my local Comcast service. There are no more "naughty" channels (Playboy, Spice Channel, etc.).

[gshelley61]

Few local commercial stations are offering subchannels other than low bandwidth SD news or weather. A major exception is the SD music channel "The Tube" offered as a secondary subchannel channel program to locals. http://www.thetubetv.com/

The station I work at is a CBS network affiliate on our primary digital (HD) channel, and a MyNetwork affiliate on our secondary (SD) digital channnel. We're not in a large market, however.

[edDV]

Few local commercial stations are offering subchannels other than low bandwidth SD news or weather. A major exception is the SD music channel "The Tube" offered as a secondary subchannel channel program to locals. http://www.thetubetv.com/

The station I work at is a CBS network affiliate on our primary digital (HD) channel, and a MyNetwork affiliate on our secondary (SD) digital channnel. We're not in a large market, however.

I saw that in other small markets in Utah, Wyoming and Montana. There is a trend in major cities for one company to own two separate TV stations in a market that carry separate networks. In the business this is called a "Duopoly". Usually the two stations share news and operational staff. For instance, in Sacramento Viacom-CBS owns CBS13 plus KMAX(CW) and Hearst owns KCRA(NBC) plus KQCA(My). Viacom-CBS operate similar duopolies in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Digital broadcasting allows two separate networks to operate from a single ATSC transmitter although only one can be high definition at a time for technical reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duopoly
This is a good overview of the rules. It turns out one owner cannot own more than one station in a market with fewer than 9 full power stations. But that doesn't prevent one station in a small market from carrying two networks.

[Madz]

I have to fling in 2¢: I thought the deadline only applied to off-air broadcast stations. Since the FCC wants the old analog TV bands back so that they can auction them off. Also, I always see that misconception that DTV always means HDTV. Not true. There's an SD resolution available (480p?). Finally, I read somewhere (PC Magazine, I think), that the FCC now requires all TVs (regardless of type) made after March 2007 to include a built-in DTV (again not necessarily HD) tuner if they also still carry an analog tuner.

[edDV]

I have to fling in 2¢: I thought the deadline only applied to off-air broadcast stations. Since the FCC wants the old analog TV bands back so that they can auction them off.

It does but advanced cable sytems will be offering the DTV main channel as downconverted normal NTSC or as QAM encoded unencrypted MPeg2 digital. The digital channel will be much higher quality than NTSC and will be in HD if the station is broadcasting HD*. TV sets that can tune QAM won't need a cable box or cablecard to receive these channels.

Also, I always see that misconception that DTV always means HDTV. Not true. There's an SD resolution available (480p?).

A TV station can broadcast in any of about twenty standards under ATSC.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

They can also broadcast as many subchannels as they choose or even >80% data so long as the main channel is one of the approved formats. For example a station could broadcast one 480i SD and a dozen H.264 encrypted channels to supply motels with an alternative to cable. The data doesn't even need to be TV. The ~16Mb/s data capacity could be leased to businesses or the government.

Finally, I read somewhere (PC Magazine, I think), that the FCC now requires all TVs (regardless of type) made after March 2007 to include a built-in DTV (again not necessarily HD) tuner if they also still carry an analog tuner.

Basic digital TV sets are here already. They can tune HD or SD subchannels but only display them as 640x480 typ.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8206087&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1165610667287

Yep, that's $125 for a 20" digital TV.


A typical network station (ABC,CBS, FOX, NBC) will be broadcasting the main channel as 1080i or 720p 16:9 24x7. SD programming is being upscaled to HD currently. 4:3 material shows between pillars. Other stations can do whatever they please. PBS in daytime may be running 5 SD subchannels.


* I'm not certain the "must carry" rules say that a cable system must carry a local HD broadcast in HD. But they do have to carry it in some format and without encryption.