February 17, 2009 - the analog deadline.

[killerhex]

which other companies are doing this

[edDV]

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these to see if the downscaled ASTC HD and/or SD sub channels appear on that composite NTSC output connector. If they do this makes a cheap digital tuner alternative for a computer capture card or an existing DVD recorder. You also get a 20" TV on the side for free

[edDV]

which other companies are doing this

All of the usual suspects that make cheap TV sets for BestBuy, Walmart, etc.

The news is this price point for a TV with digital and analog tuner.

[Madz]

A buck & a quarter isn't bad for that. One thing that caught my eye was this:

Monophonic sound with bottom-mounted 3-watt speakers for immersive sound. Monophonic sound??

[edDV]

It does have left and right audio output connectors.

You want the deluxe 24" model.

They don't say if stereo but it does have two 4W speakers.

[edDV]

If these cheap DTV sets do output an NTSC conversion of the ATSC tuner channel selection then I am impressed. That means existing VCR and DVD recorders can still be used after the analog shutdown without having to buy a separate DTV tuner.

[TBoneit]

Since the cable company came out and fixed the line between the pole and the house, the cable modem works. Analog TV always worked feeding my Tivo, Now the Local Digital channels also work.

I did a rescan with the TV I can now get the networks and PBS stations in digital. Previously I could not and the "ever helpful" cable company told me I needed to rent a cable box to get the "free" HD. I was getting a some of the subchannels so I just assumed they were scrambling. It was either the filter their service man took off to improve the signal for the modem or the new ends he installed were killing modem and digital TV service, I do not know which.

Anyway Now I can now DVR two HD channels from satellite and watch one live from cable.

Darn shame there is nothing worth watching at this time of year. In the fall I like to sample all the offerings, Most get one or two chances to catch my interest and reruns, no thanks. So even for shows I do watch that ends up being 18 or so a year?

Edit:
It was interesting to see how many showed 720p and/or mono audio. Either the TV is reporting it wrong or the cable system is messing it up. The guide info for the stations seems to show properly and the HD does fill the screen and looks OK.

2nd Edit: The image was not as good as I had hoped, possibly because of the subchannels?

[edDV]

Since the cable company came out and fixed the line between the pole and the house, the cable modem works. Analog TV always worked feeding my Tivo, Now the Local Digital channels also work.

I did a rescan with the TV I can now get the networks and PBS stations in digital. Previously I could not and the "ever helpful" cable company told me I needed to rent a cable box to get the "free" HD. I was getting a some of the subchannels so I just assumed they were scrambling. It was either the filter their service man took off to improve the signal for the modem or the new ends he installed were killing modem and digital TV service, I do not know which.

Anyway Now I can now DVR two HD channels from satellite and watch one live from cable. ...

I'm not following. You are getting channels from satellite, OTA and now cable. Which are which? And for cable are you tuning QAM digital channels or you got a cable box?

[TBoneit]

No OTA, I wish as my Satellite box can capture/DVR the digital channels from OTA. If I pay somneone to go on the roof then I could get OTA. Myself I can get up about three rungs on a ladder.

No cable box, if I had to pay the rental fee I'd still be doing without. The TV is compatible with what the cable carries unscrambled. So I can watch the locals live that way.

I get the majority of my viewing from Dishnetworks Everything pack plus their HD channels.

The cable digital channels were not working and either they have changed something or the repairs to the feed to the house they did have allowed them to be tuned now. Before I could get a NBC or ABC or some low quality music subchannel but not the actual Network channels but now I'm seeing them all. The ones available to basic cable subs such as I.

Hopefully I have clarified things?

[edDV]

So you can now use your HDTV set's QAM tuner to get the locals in SD and HD with basic cable service?

Is the quality comparable for Dish's MPeg4 locals? I haven't been able to see a direct comparison.

[TBoneit]

Yes it is getting all the subbed channels in SD and HD now.

Strangely enough I wasn't impressed by the cable channels from NYC, NY. The HD didn't look different to my eyes in HD. The SD channels look better. Dish compresses them to where when they are stored they run 900meg to a gig of Hard drive space per hour. So we are talking a level comparable to putting over 4 hours on a SL DVD.

The major advantage for me that I watch a fair amount of PBS and Dish hasn't added WNET or WLIW or NJN in HD. So I can watch the HD content from channel 21 (WLIW) or Ch13 (WNET) now. I have to look for NJN again. I do not recall seeing it.

[handyguy]

"If you have a standard cable box, there will be no picture."

Depends where you are. That FCC ruling is only for OTA stuff.

Comcast is a private company so they can keep it all analog if they want to. In my area 2-80 is analog & above that is digital.

[edDV]

"If you have a standard cable box, there will be no picture."

Depends where you are. That FCC ruling is only for OTA stuff.

Comcast is a private company so they can keep it all analog if they want to. In my area 2-80 is analog & above that is digital.

Yes, Comcast uses the Motorola cable boxes in most areas but not everywhere. A non-HD capable cable box can handle the HD QAM channels in several ways. The non-HD Motorola DCT boxes seem to ignor the HD video signal but play the audio. Premium channels like Cinemax are blocked unless included in your plan. A more modern box might downscale the HD to SD so you can see the channel as letterbox SD.

The trend for Comcast is to reduce analog offerings in the lower two digit space to add space for more SD and HD MPeg2 "digital" channels plus the digital version of local channels. Each analog channel occupies the space of up to 10 SD MPeg2 or 2 HD MPeg2.

The number of analog channels that can be tuned directly from the cable will continue to decline to less than 30. The business reason for Comcast to do this is to stop defections of higher paying customers to Direct TV and Dish who offer more HD channels.

[TBoneit]

I should have clarified the above I meant I couldn't see any difference between the cablevision HD and the Dishnetwork HD locals.

When I had a Dishnetwork reseller sharing the space here, I heard a lot of people saying they'd like to switch but that the $5 mirror fee per outlet was stopping them as they had 7 TVset hooked up with no cable box.

Based on that it seems that dropping the number of Analog channels might be counterproductive for Comcast?

[edDV]

I should have clarified the above I meant I couldn't see any difference between the cablevision HD and the Dishnetwork HD locals.

When I had a Dishnetwork reseller sharing the space here, I heard a lot of people saying they'd like to switch but that the $5 mirror fee per outlet was stopping them as they had 7 TVset hooked up with no cable box.

Based on that it seems that dropping the number of Analog channels might be counterproductive for Comcast?

That is their trade off. They need to make space for more HD channels that are coming to Satelite like A&E HD, National Geographic HD, Food Network HD, CNN HD, etc. etc.

For each two HD they add, one analog channel needs to be kicked up to MPeg2.

[TBoneit]

Those rang a bell so I checked, coming? I already have A&E HD, National Geographic HD, Food Network HD.

If you are curious these are what I have right now plus the four network locals.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index.shtml

I wonder how FIOS bandwidth compares against Cable bandwidth and satellite bandwidth?

Right now I have two dishes, one pointed at 119 & 110 locations, and a second one pointed at 61.5 location for most of the HD.

[TBoneit]

If I had the money I'd most likely have an antenna farm in the yard.

BUD, FTA, Dishnetwork, DirecTv and graymarket through a Canadian residence to get Canadian satellite TV.

If I understand a Slingbox it can be controlled trough the computer to view video remotely?

I wonder if that would be a legal way to get a foreign TV and watch in the USA. Nah, probably a copyright violation to transmit the video outside the licensed counntry.

Oh well I can dream that doesn't violate copyright yet.

[handyguy]

You can get a 10' dish & get a lot of free raw worldwide feeds.

[Scooter_NJ]

FiOS does TRUE 1080I without compromise. Cable and satellite don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Lite

I market FiOS in NJ.

[edDV]

Those rang a bell so I checked, coming? I already have A&E HD, National Geographic HD, Food Network HD.

If you are curious these are what I have right now plus the four network locals.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index.shtml

Yes they began last quarter. They are carried immediately on satellite and the newer >750MHz cable systems but older cable systems have to trade bandwidth to increase HD channels offered. In California Comcast is giving higher priority to about 40 SD channels of foreign language networks (e.g. Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Indian, Pakistani and Middle East) which may drive HD customers to satellite.

Their consolation to HD customers so far has been premium sports coverage (Comcast Sports Net and FSN) and large libraries of "In Demand" HD content including National Geographic, Howard Stern, etc.

Cable also tends to carry more locals in HD. Here they have 6 digital locals in HD and 5 more in SD.

[TBoneit]

Sounds like Comcast has decided that foreign language will be more beneficial to them than HD subs. A person I work with has a Dishnetwork Chinese package, http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/whats_on_dish/international/Chinese/packages.aspx = 17 channels. From what I've seen the marketing of these foreign language packages by Dish is very pervasive. I get calls in Spanish all the time as they think my last name is spanish, it isn't BTW.
Cable will have to go some to beat satellite foreign channel offerings. They seem to have a fair amount of Arabic and Indian programming as well as others too.

I always wondered how the In Demand doesn't impact bandwidth? Those Consolation products Comcast is offerering would not mean much to me compared to more 24x7 HD channels.
Moving on.

Scooter_NJ, 1080i Wouldn't help my my 32" TV is not a native 1080i display as I understand most are not in that size range. 1366 by 768? comes to mind. It does make a nice computer display. I'm awaiting with curiousity the Dish VOD over the internet. If they can deliver Streaming HD..... Hmmmm.....

I have satellite and Three DVRs from them. For me the DVRs have been rock solid. My HD DVR records two sat feeds and a third OTA Digital feed at the same time, so I could be recording three HD channels at the same time and be watching two earlier recordings on the Two Tvs it can be hooked up to, 1 HD and 1 SD with remotes for both.

From what I've heard the Fios DVR needs some more time to mature. My HD DVR is their third gen model as I remember it.

another DVR is a dual tuner SD DVR and the third DVR is a single tuner SD model. Plus a Tivo SA lifetime sub.

Is it true that when they run the Fios they remove your copper landline?

[Scooter_NJ]

Question: "Is it true that when they run the Fios they remove your copper landline? "

Yes

[TBoneit]

I don't think I'd like that We had a power outage after a bad storm and the power was out for days. Phone kept working. I suspect that the Fios phone would have been out if for no other reason then no power to operate the equipment at the home.

? Why remove the copper line? If I only wanted Fios Internet they still pull my basic phone line? And what about the other lines to the house?

My suspicious nature says they don't want a person to be able to go back to what they had.

I have basic phone, No long distance even. How could Fios phone reduce my bill then. Same reason I don't want cellular phone service, well one of the reasons. I'm not the kind of phone user thay really want. I don't want all the bells and whistles. I just want dial tone and that I keep forgetting to turn on the ringer in the morning and miss most calls anyway.

However, Thanks for the answer.

[edDV]

I always wondered how the In Demand doesn't impact bandwidth? Those Consolation products Comcast is offerering would not mean much to me compared to more 24x7 HD channels.

They set aside bandwidth to supply "on demand" for pay and free channels. The bandwidth needed depends only on usage in the neighborhood served. Each On-Demand customer gets only part of a 6MHz channel. When demand overloads the system you get breakup or the equivalent of a busy signal. The system responds by moving the content server effectively closer to the customer with fewer households served per insertion point.

[Scooter_NJ]

FiOS has a battery back up for the phone, which gives up to 8 hours Talk time, not just standby time.

You can go back to anything you want, even after the fiber is installed and the copper taken down. It's just that it would be via fiber not copper.

As far as reducing your monthly bills, there would have to be a comparison to what you spend now for net, tv, and phone versus what FiOS would be.