Converting Hi8

[NightFire]

I want to convert some Hi8 tapes to DVD and was wondering what is a good camcorder for this. I would like to get a Digital8 camcorder just so that I can use it latter for making movies (makes it easier to justify the purchase to the wife too). I am not sure what mode the Hi8 tapes were recorded in because my parents aren't sure of what model the original camcorder even was what to speak of record modes. I have also read that the new Digital8 camcorders don't even play Hi8. Does anybody have any suggestions on what model is good and maybe where to buy (other than eBay)? I got a list of all the Digital8 camcorders (up to 2005) and features but none show if they play Hi8 LP (I wish I remember where I got it to get an updated list). I was thinking about the Sony GDV video Walkmans but they are so expensive just for this project. If they are a far superior option I would just bite the bullet and buy one; probably could get a good amount back on eBay. Should I just stick with a Hi8 camcorder so that it will definitely work?

[edDV]

I want to convert some Hi8 tapes to DVD and was wondering what is a good camcorder for this. I would like to get a Digital8 camcorder just so that I can use it latter for making movies (makes it easier to justify the purchase to the wife too).

I hear you bro (edited she listens)...

I am not sure what mode the Hi8 tapes were recorded in because my parents aren't sure of what model the original camcorder even was what to speak of record modes. I have also read that the new Digital8 camcorders don't even play Hi8. Does anybody have any suggestions on what model is good and maybe where to buy (other than eBay)? I got a list of all the Digital8 camcorders (up to 2005) and features but none show if they play Hi8 LP (I wish I remember where I got it to get an updated list).

Most early Digital8 had this feature. Somewhere I have a database of models. Later models dropped this feature (by plan) for the low end but offered it on the mid models. Digital 8 is good for transfer but on lowish end as a shooting camcorder.

[andie41]

I bought a Sony TRV330 from ebay to transfer my Hi8 tapes - works great, has TBC and DNR. I don't know where to find one, other than ebay.

[NightFire]

Were any of your tapes in Hi8 LP? Do you remember what camcorder the original tapes were shot on? I am just wondering because the Sony line is to use the same camcorder that the tapes were recorded on. Since this isn't an option I am looking for the most fail proof solution. At least with eBay I can resell it if it doesn't work and hopefully get most of my money back. Does anybody do Hi8 conversions professionally and what would you use?

[andie41]

Good idea to use the same camera as used to record - who can do that. Pretty sure all my tapes are SP, and from 2 different Hi8 cameras and 2 8mm cameras, starting in 1987. There can be problems using a different recording device than was originally used to record the tape, but the TBC should help to eliminate any sync issues and so far I haven't had any problems with this.

[handyguy]

Most of the Sonys TR series do Hi8, I know I have one. Then I input it into a dvd recorder & makes dvds really fast.

[dLee]

I went with the Sony GV-D200 Digital Video Walkman after my Hi8 camcorder died. Good quality captures. It has a firewire port, so you can capture / transfer at the same time. It can be used as a passthru device if you have VHS that needs to be converted.

I've capsfered directly to a standalone DVD recorder and to Vegas for editing (DV). Vegas Cap sees it as a digital device (like a DV camcorder) and can control it natively. The video is rock solid unless a tape is damaged.

Many people here have reported similar results with a Digital8 camcorder which sometimes go for about 1/2 the price of the GV-D200.

The Video Walkman seems to hold it's value for resale, if the auctions at eBay are to be believed.

If you're interested in archiving your Hi8 material, I would capsfer it to miniDV. Digital8 is a proprietary format. If and when your Digital8 device dies, you'll be in the same boat as you are now. However, buying two camcorders / devices might be tough to get through the legislature.

[edDV]

Were any of your tapes in Hi8 LP? Do you remember what camcorder the original tapes were shot on? I am just wondering because the Sony line is to use the same camcorder that the tapes were recorded on. Since this isn't an option I am looking for the most fail proof solution. At least with eBay I can resell it if it doesn't work and hopefully get most of my money back. Does anybody do Hi8 conversions professionally and what would you use?

The LP issue concerns narrow tracks that require a tighter transport mechanical match to get adequate tracking.

There are two limitations using a Digital8 camcorder for Hi8 transfer.

First, the Digital8 transport will only do a straight 1x speed transfer. You cannot jog or shuttle with picture. It is impossible to vary playback speed or stop frame.

Second, the Digital8 deck does not read the PCM audio tracks (from prosumer Hi8). Instead it reads linear tracks only at much lower quality.

For the above reasons I use a Hi8 deck to a Canopus ADVC-100 for important work. The Digital8 is good for a quick copy.

[jlietz]

Does anybody do Hi8 conversions professionally and what would you use?

Sony EV-S7000 Hi8 deck. Usually available on ebay for $300-$500, but not right now (I just checked). Should be able to sell it for about the same once you're done. To my knowledge, the EV-S7000 is Sony's top of the line consumer model. LP tapes are not a problem.

[SingSing]

Have you consider Hi-8 direct to DVD recorder ?

[NightFire]

This is getting more and more complicated. I do like the idea of the Digital8 Walkmans but they are so expensive to just be able to view tapes with. Is there a similar product but without a LCD screen for cheaper? Do the Walkmans have the same limitations when it comes to PCM Audio and playback speed? Also by Prosumer do you mean like professional videos? I doubt these videos are on high grade tapes or very professional to begin with. Is the difference very noticeable for your average home user videos that probably don't have that great audio to begin with? The playback speed isn't a big issue because I'll probably just copy to the computer and remove dead space and then burn.

The Hi8 to DVD recorder is a good idea but I would like to make custom menus and stuff like that. I'll probably back some of the good ones to MiniDV too (the in-laws have one). Decisions, decisions.

[jlietz]

The playback speed isn't a big issue because I'll probably just copy to the computer and remove dead space and then burn.

In the interest of clarity, you must capture at 1x (real-time). I don't think edDV meant to imply that you have a choice in the matter when he said:

First, the Digital8 transport will only do a straight 1x speed transfer. You cannot jog or shuttle with picture. It is impossible to vary playback speed or stop frame.

Although I'm not quite sure what he means...I can jog (fast forward, rewind, etc...) a Hi8 tape in my Digital8 camcorder with no problems. Picture included. Am I interpreting your comment incorrectly edDV

[edDV]

Cost seems to be your main issue. PCM (digital) audio was only present in prosumer up Hi8 camcorders.

If you want the cheapest Hi8 to IEEE-1394 product, look for the first or second generation* Digital8 camcorders. They all offered Hi8 1x transcode but didn't offer the popular "analog pass through" feature now in demand. As a result they are dirt cheap in Craigslist or ebay for those in the know.

The trick is to find a little used model (low mileage on the heads).

* you need to research this yourself. I found a database of digital8 features somewhere in Google.

[edDV]

The playback speed isn't a big issue because I'll probably just copy to the computer and remove dead space and then burn.

In the interest of clarity, you must capture at 1x (real-time). I don't think edDV meant to imply that you have a choice in the matter when he said:

First, the Digital8 transport will only do a straight 1x speed transfer. You cannot jog or shuttle with picture. It is impossible to vary playback speed or stop frame.

Although I'm not quite sure what he means...I can jog (fast forward, rewind, etc...) a Hi8 tape in my Digital8 camcorder with no problems. Picture included. Am I interpreting your comment incorrectly edDV

The first generation model I have won't do picture in shuttle (i.e. shuttle/jog/step) for Hi8. Later models may. What model do you have? I want one. I still have a large box of Hi8 to sort for transfer.

Yes you transfer at 1x but finding what you want to transfer is a big deal and timesink. Also, with Digital8 format, you can capture at other than 1x but at reduced quality.


PS: I have a DCR-TRV310 and a 103 (Y2K vintage) Both do Hi8 and both work well as DV -> NTSC monitor transcoders (analog output). The input analog side is poor on both.

[andie41]

I am not sure that I understand edDV

First, the Digital8 transport will only do a straight 1x speed transfer. You cannot jog or shuttle with picture. It is impossible to vary playback speed or stop frame

My TRV330 does not have a shuttle wheel, but the remote has fast forward/reverse with picture, slow motion forward/reverse with picture and frame advance forward/reverse, with picture.

Second, the Digital8 deck does not read the PCM audio tracks (from prosumer Hi8). Instead it reads linear tracks only at much lower quality.

Again, I am not sure I understand the comment; I use the Digital 8 camcorder to transfer to my computer and with this, I don't see the need of a Digital 8 deck. The TRV330 records and outputs 16 bit 48kHz PCM stereo. Some of my Hi8's were recorded with my Canon A1 Digital, which has pretty decent audio and I have not noticed any problem with the audio quality from the TRV330.

[edDV]

I am not sure that I understand edDV

First, the Digital8 transport will only do a straight 1x speed transfer. You cannot jog or shuttle with picture. It is impossible to vary playback speed or stop frame

My TRV330 does not have a shuttle wheel, but the remote has fast forward/reverse with picture, slow motion forward/reverse with picture and frame advance forward/reverse, with picture.

It will do this from a Hi8 tape?

Second, the Digital8 deck does not read the PCM audio tracks (from prosumer Hi8). Instead it reads linear tracks only at much lower quality.

Again, I am not sure I understand the comment; I use the Digital 8 camcorder to transfer to my computer and with this, I don't see the need of a Digital 8 deck. The TRV330 records and outputs 16 bit 48kHz PCM stereo. Some of my Hi8's were recorded with my Canon A1 Digital, which has pretty decent audio and I have not noticed any problem with the audio quality from the TRV330.

Again, we are talking here about pulling info from a Hi8 tape in the transport, not pass through.

[andie41]

It will do this from a Hi8 tape?

Yes. I have not used the pass through feature of this camera; I play my Hi8 tapes directly in the TRV330, it converts to DV and I record this on my computer, through firewire. It may not be the "best" option available, but it certainly is good for me - simple and inexpensive.

[edDV]

It will do this from a Hi8 tape?

Yes. I have not used the pass through feature of this camera; I play my Hi8 tapes directly in the TRV330, it converts to DV and I record this on my computer, through firewire. It may not be the "best" option available, but it certainly is good for me - simple and inexpensive.

That's good. The two Digital8 camcorders I have won't show picture in shuttle or capture the PCM audio tracks for Hi8 but they will for Digital8 encoded tapes. Picture in shuttle saves a lot of time searching a tape and that is double true for 2hr Hi8 tape.

[NightFire]

Money isn't so much of a problem as buying a unit that only plays tapes for $800 is. There is actually a TRV330 unit on eBay right now and in Canada too. I think I will give it a try and see what happens. I'll run it through it's paces and post back in awhile. Thanks everybody for your time.

[handyguy]

"Have you consider Hi-8 direct to DVD recorder ?"

I do that using s-video. Quality is just awesome.

[edDV]

"Have you consider Hi-8 direct to DVD recorder ?"

I do that using s-video. Quality is just awesome.

It makes it easier if you don't want to heavy edit or filter. Be sure to use high bitrates.

[dLee]

The Sony GV-D200 is available new for $527.99 USD

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=10366

No LCD screen, 2x playback, SP and LP modes supported, will playback any 8mm, Hi8 tape and either sound format, TBC, DNR.

I wonder if the quality is the same from a Digital8 camcorder. If anyone wants to do some tests...

When I have a 2hr Hi8 tape that's mostly dreck and I need to extract the 2min of desirable material, I'll record it to DVD RW via firewire to my standalone. Then I can find the good material rather quickly. It beats enduring yet another coma-inducing kids bday party.

[edDV]

The Sony GV-D200 is available new for $527.99 USD

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=10366

No LCD screen, 2x playback, SP and LP modes supported, will playback any 8mm, Hi8 tape and either sound format, TBC, DNR.

I wonder if the quality is the same from a Digital8 camcorder. If anyone wants to do some tests...

When I have a 2hr Hi8 tape that's mostly dreck and I need to extract the 2min of desirable material, I'll record it to DVD RW via firewire to my standalone. Then I can find the good material rather quickly. It beats enduring yet another coma-inducing kids bday party.

The GV-D200 is similar to the prosumer recorder half of a camcorder and will have the picture in shuttle, etc featurs. It should do a bit better than the Digital8 on signal to noise. I notice a difference playing back Hi8 from my V5000 camcorder vs. the Digital8.

[dLee]

I notice a difference between the caps I made with my Hi8 camcorder before it died vs caps made with the GV-D200.

Common wisdom here is that Hi8 was a small, incremental step up from VHS. Especially when I use the Sony, the difference between Hi8 and VHS is huge - even though most of my VHS was recorded on a pro deck with a pro JVC ENG camera (single tube). Hi8 caps keep their detail and sharpness even at lower bitrates.

[edDV]

I notice a difference between the caps I made with my Hi8 camcorder before it died vs caps made with the GV-D200.

Common wisdom here is that Hi8 was a small, incremental step up from VHS. Especially when I use the Sony, the difference between Hi8 and VHS is huge - even though most of my VHS was recorded on a pro deck with a pro JVC ENG camera (single tube). Hi8 caps keep their detail and sharpness even at lower bitrates.

The Hi8 format is capable of nearly double the resolution vs VHS or 8mm but the camera section needs to be high quality to see the difference. Most weren't except at the prosumer level. Downside to Hi8 is noise and dropouts especially near the ends of the tape.

DV format is so much better. When I feed camera S-Video out of my old "Hi8" CCD-V5000 Sony camcorder into the Digital8 or ADVC-100 for DV recording the differences are dramatic.

[dLee]

The CCD-V5000 Sony was / is a great camera. I always wanted one of those. It sort of reminds me of a mini Betacam. I really like some of those old Sony Hi8 editing decks, too.

DV is in another league altogether. I'm doing sound design for an indy film that was shot on a Canon XL2. Beautiful images, even from people who essentially didn't know what they were doing.

[edDV]

The CCD-V5000 Sony was / is a great camera. I always wanted one of those. It sort of reminds me of a mini Betacam. I really like some of those old Sony Hi8 editing decks, too.

DV is in another league altogether. I'm doing sound design for an indy film that was shot on a Canon XL2. Beautiful images, even from people who essentially didn't know what they were doing.

I'm becoming a camcorder collector I guess. I bought the V5000 new in Tokyo back in '90. It's been around the world so I'm serious about my Hi8 collection. In addition to the two Digital8's, I also own a MiniDV PD-150 that is mostly out on projects. When needed I can use the V5000 as an additional stationary event cam and record to one of the Digital8's in DV or to a computer. I'm seriously considering a HC-1 HDV next for general use. Most of the time I can borrow an HDV FX1 or Z1 when I need it.

[dLee]

If it's in good shape, the CCD-V5000 is still very usable, a high quality camera.

The recording formats of the HD prosumer lines leave a lot to be desired. The images look great when capped to SD. Plus I feel I just got a complete post solution that runs fine on my computer and now I've got to switch to a format that most computers struggle just to play.

I worked on another indy feature that used the JVC HD100. The HD was a nightmare to work with, but when we finally capped the footage as SD, it started to come together. Color was superior to most DV cams I've worked with.

Watching USC v UCLA. UCLA came to play.....

[handyguy]

"It makes it easier if you don't want to heavy edit or filter."

It's easy to edit on the panasonic dvd recorder HD.

[deuce8pro]

A digital8 cam with tbc would be the best way to transfer hi8 tapes.