basic VirtualDubMod questions

[spiritgumm]

I'm trying to resize/crop VOB (movie outtakes) so I can re-insert clips from it back into a 16x9 dvd movie. Fortunately someone posted the method for VirtualDubMod:
(Viseo>Filters>Add>Resize>OK>Show Preview>Crop)
However, I can't get a regular m2v type output file. Also VDmod 's framerate settings & default revolve around 23.976 (I'm using ntsc 29.97). Why is that? I tried changing the setting to 29.97 but it throws the audio off (at least when I play it on the computer).
Looking for NON-SCRIPT advice here.

[Baldrick]

You need a mpeg2 vfw codec like YMPEG to be able to export/convert to mpeg2 in virtualdubmod. Or frameserve to a mpeg2 encoder or output to uncompressed avi/dv-avi and convert it to mpeg2.

Are you sure that the source is 29.97? most commercial ntsc dvds are in 23.976.

[spiritgumm]

All my dvds (commercial or dvd recorder) say 29.97 fps, according to mediainfo.
Aside from Ympeg, is there an appropriate free codec for VDmod? I'm sure there's some on my computer already. And how does it link to VDmod? Do they get added/configured under the Video->Compression menu ? There's a couple there already.

[manono]

As Baldrick said, most retail NTSC DVDs are encoded at progressive 23.976fps, with pulldown applied. Your recorded ones are 29.97fps, but if originally film, are hard telecined from 23.976fps, and can be IVTC'd. Often the deleted scenes/outtakes on DVD are hard telecined, where the main movie is progressive 23.976fps.

If you're trying to replace these things back into the movie, then you had best figure out how the movie was encoded, so you can duplicate it with the extras. Also, many deleted scenes on DVD are widescreen 4:3, where the movie itself is 16:9. The fact that you have to crop and resize leads me to believe that this particular DVD is that way. The extras look like crap compared to the main movie, and if you even succeed in this project, the inserted outtakes will stand out like a sore thumb.

Trying to do this using VDubMod is a waste of time, in my opinion. You'll have much better luck using AviSynth for the job, especially if you have to IVTC. Also, if VDubMod is showing it to be 23.976fps, that's the framerate at which it was encoded. It ignores pulldown flags.

[Baldrick]

Mediainfo may show the playback rate and it is 29.97 fps but the video might be in 23:976 with 3:2 pulldown and it is played back at 29.97fps. You can check the framerate with dgindex, open vob and use the preview.

No, I don't know any other free mpeg2 vfw codec. Maybe ffdshow can do vfw mpeg2...never tested it.

[spiritgumm]

in dgindex, it shows the original movie as progressive film 29.97 fps, 16x9. The deleted scenes are the same except for the 4x3 aspect ratio. Typing "codec" in Tools, it seems there are a couple free compressors/encoders but they aren't appropriate? Quenc?
Or what about taking the VDmod output (avi) and converting it to mpeg2? I want to edit the clips into the original moive using Mpeg2Schnitt or TDA.

[spiritgumm]

The extras look like crap compared to the main movie, and if you even succeed in this project, the inserted outtakes will stand out like a sore thumb.
Trying to do this using VDubMod is a waste of time, in my opinion. You'll have much better luck using AviSynth for the job, especially if you have to IVTC. Also, if VDubMod is showing it to be 23.976fps, that's the framerate at which it was encoded. It ignores pulldown flags.

manano-
you recommended I use Vdub for this project
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=312303&highlight=
but left out the all-important "how to." Luckily some kind soul posted actual help (video->filters etc) in an older thread (since that's what we're requesting here).

[manono]

Hehe, I read my reply in that other thread a lot differently than you do. I read it as recommending VDub as a distant 2nd choice to using AviSynth. In addition, that one is only about using VDub for cropping and resizing, which it is decent at. If IVTC is involved, AviSynth is way better. And doing things like cutting, splicing, and joining video from 2 different sources aren't easy using either as a frameserver, but I'd rather do it in AviSynth.

[spiritgumm]

I'll take 2nd best for now. I wasn't going to edit in vdubmod - gonna use TDA or Mpeg2Schnitt. But I need to figure out how to change the vdubmod output file (avi) into mpeg2, either during or after it's outputted. I also can't tell about the IVTC.

[manono]

But I need to figure out how to change the vdubmod output file (avi) into mpeg2, either during or after it's outputted.

2 ways to do it. You either frameserve directly into the MPEG-2 encoder skipping the AVI step, or you save the AVI to a lossless codec (Lagarith or HuffYUV, for example) and then encode that in your MPEG-2 encoder. There's a guide here somewhere about how to frameserve. If you can't find it, here's another guide about how to set up VDub for frameserving:

http://www.doom9.org/virtualdub_procedures.htm#Frameserving

And while looking around, I also found the guide for frameserving via AviSynth, and why it's faster, with better quality output:

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dgindex-frameserving.htm

[spiritgumm]

I tried the first doom9 guide on frameserving with vdubmod, but it doesn't indicate where the frames were going; am I suppose to somehow add an encoder to the Compressor list or what? I got as far as starting the frameserve function on Vdub.... Didn't try the avisynth frameserve guide - I'm not grasping the big picture (or even the little pic) here, so I don't want to get more confused trying to write scripts

[jagabo]

Frame serving is the passing of frames from one program to another (without saving the to an intermediate file). If you are frame serving from VirtualDubmod just select the VDR file as the source in your MPEG encoder. If using AVISynth just open the AVS file from your MPEG encoder.

[spiritgumm]

If you are frame serving from VirtualDubmod just select the VDR file as the source in your MPEG encoder.

What is VDR file? I didn't see it listed in Vdub program folder.

[jagabo]

What is VDR file? I didn't see it listed in Vdub program folder.

When you start frame serving from VirtualDub (File -> Start Frame Server) it will create a .VDR file. This small file is used to pass information about the frames being passed from VirtualDub to the other program.

[spiritgumm]

When I started frameserve (following the doom9 guide), I got the window as shown there (which has the "Stop serving" button) and nothing happened for a while, so I stoppped it. The guide just says to wait for it to finish frameserving - but I thought the point was for it to go to an encoder, not get stored somewhere. So if I wait for it to finish - and how long usually? - I would get another window indicating where the vdr file is?

[jagabo]

VirtualDub was waiting to serve frames to another program. Just open the VDR file with your encoder. When the encoder is done close the VirtualDub frame server dialog.

[spiritgumm]

Ah, I see, a file creation window pops open to name/save the .vdr file.
I was hoping to use a freebie encoder like Quenc, but it doesn't accept the vdr file as a source.