Some Basic HD Television Questions

[Maikeru-sama]

Not sure where this type of topic goes, so I posted it here.

I have an 19 inch non-HD television and I am probably going to get an HD TV this weekend or next. Below are my questions:

1) Does buying a HD Television reduce or prevent overscan on hard subs vertically and horizontally? Or does it depend on what size you buy?

2) I have basic cable, so when I watch TV, will there be black borders around the screen?

3) Can I buy an HD Television that will allow me to hook a VCR up to it?

4) What brand is the best for a reasonable price?

[jagabo]

1) Does buying a HD Television reduce or prevent overscan on hard subs vertically and horizontally?

Not necessarily. HDTVs normally overscan too. If your old CRT has a lot of overscan (the amount varies from TV to TV) a new HDTV might have less. Also a lot of HDTVs now have a pixel-for-pixel mapping mode with no overscan. That would eliminate your problem with some devices (it may not be available for composite inputs for example).

2) I have basic cable, so when I watch TV, will there be black borders around the screen?

When you watch 4:3 there will black pillarbox bars at the left and right. If you watch a 16:9 show broadcast as letterboxed 4:3 (ie, you seel black bars top and bottom on your current 4:3 CRT) then you will see black bars on all four sides on an HDTV. Most HDTVs have stretch or zoom modes to get around this.

3) Can I buy an HD Television that will allow me to hook a VCR up to it?

Yes. Just about every HDTV has at least one composite input.

[jman98]

4) What brand is the best for a reasonable price?

My vote would be for Samsung as I have one myself. The picture quality is excellent. The filters on the TV even make VCD look good - no kidding.

The downside is that I believe that all Samsung models overscan to a certain degree and the ones that are sold in the USA do not support PAL resolutions, which you may or may not care about.

[jagabo]

The downside is that I believe that all Samsung models overscan to a certain degree

My Samsung LNT 4665 has non-overscan modes for HDMI and component inputs. Samsung calls it "just scan".

[Dearg800]

Hi
Question 1- I have no idea
Q2- depends on the size of the tv you buy. Buy a widescreen if u can as it will give you more options i.e. you can fill the screen no matter what size the programs are broadcast in.
Q3-At the risk of a generalised statement- 100 per cent yes.
Q4- Most tv companies use the same/similar components. If you do your homework you can buy very good non branded hdtv's that utilise more or less the same components. Samsungs are very good tv's, I have a philips. Believe it or not I don't recommend Sony, Sharp or LG. Here in Europe Panasonic are very dear but they are very good.
For the record I'm not a buff but I deal sell them for a year so I do have a good idea of what sold and what gave trouble.

[edDV]

1) If you are talking computer connection, the VGA (PC-Game) inputs usually don't overscan, the other inputs do overscan. Read reviews on the specific models you are considering. Samsung's "just scan" removes overscan on HDMI and analog component (I think) inputs.

2) What jagabo said. You will see normal broadcasts go to sidebars and four side black during commercial breaks depending on the material being shown. Each has an explanation.

3) yes, the HDTV has a built in upscaler. The better the class of TV, the better the upscale will look. The top manufacturers (e.g. Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp) have 3 to 5 levels of processor quality for a given screen size. Expect the base model to struggle with SD sources and analog cable.

4) Samsung 720p for LCD, Panasonic (1024x768 or 1366x768) for Plasma. Both will be close to $1000 for a 40-42". Shop for sales. For Samsung, "level 4" is a big step up from "level 3" if you can afford it. Samsungs now go all the way up to "level 7". Sony's top levels are the XBR 4/5.

[Dearg800]

Um, one thing I have to say about HD TV in general is probably going to sound a little ill informed and possibly offensive lol.
Everything is relative. High Definition in general mainly boils down to how much data is going to hit the screen. HD is firstly marketing. A big flat screen looks good and I think if you buy something that is reliable and mid spec then go for it. Before you kill yourself to buy a high end model ask yourself what you'll do with it. Will you watch much Blu Ray? Do you play consoles?
HDMI leads and upscaling are scams. You can upscale a VCR until the cows come home and its still a 5 year video tape. Do you like sports? They look better on a plasma. What are the big sellers in your local electronics store? These are the kinda questions to ask.
Still the previous posters recommendations aren't bad. Samsung or Panasonic, you won't go too far wrong. Watch those Sonys though, I like the company in general but they're not what they were.

[Maikeru-sama]

Good stuff fellas. Last time I checked this thread, there were no responses so I just went ahead and got one.

I went out and got one. I went to BestBuy. A relative told me that they felt Conn's (outside of Walmart and Sam's) had the best prices so I had a represenative from that store on with me to do price checks on what BestBuy was selling and for the model I got, BestBuy was cheaper.

Here is what I got:
Samsung 720p Plasma HDTV

Price I paid = $897
Plus 4 year warranty = $179

What do you think? Looking on the Internet, it seems to have a good rating and the price seems to be about a $1000.

Now the only problem is what to do with my Armoire that only holds a 19" TV as nobody seems to want to pick it up on the 3rd floor where I live .

[edDV]

Good choice and a good price for a 42"

It's a "Level 4" w/DNIe processor like I was recommending.

[Dearg800]

Good man, that's a top TV Yeah and for once the extended warranty is worth it!

[Maikeru-sama]

I was able to modify the Armoire (took forever) and remove the center piece so now the Samsung fits .

Question, there is something the saleman at Bestbuy said that scared the heck out of me.

He said that if you watch an HDTV with borders for more than 4 hours straight, that it will damage the TV, is this true?

I have Basic Cable and a ton of anime that is 4:3, so I will be watching TV with borders, so this is an issue.

[jagabo]

I was able to modify the Armoire (took forever) and remove the center piece so now the Samsung fits :D .

Be sure there is enough space left for air circulation. Plasmas can generate quite a lot of heat.

Question, there is something the saleman at Bestbuy said that scared the heck out of me.

He said that if you watch an HDTV with borders for more than 4 hours straight, that it will damage the TV, is this true?

Plasma screens are prone to burn in. The newer models are better than the old ones but it's still something you have to be careful about. Running with the lowest brightness you can tolerate will help prevent burn in.

I have Basic Cable and a ton of anime that is 4:3, so I will be watching TV with borders, so this is an issue.

Many plasma owners run 4:3 material stretched to 16:9 so it fills the screen. Or zoomed so the top and bottom get cut off. Modern plasmas slowly move the 4:3 image around so the edges aren't always in exactly the same place. The makes the burn-in edges less obvious but you still end up with problems at the edges.

[Constant Gardener]

Beware the burned plasma screen. My neighbour damaged his by watching Business News too long at high brightness. He is a financial analyst, not a techie, and he simply didn't know. I believe the screen has now recovered.

[Maikeru-sama]

The TV default is set to 16/9 by default.

Yes, there is plenty of room. The Armoire is 54x19.5x33.5 after the mod, so there is alot of room.

The Brightness is set to 45 by default. Should I lower it some more?

[Maikeru-sama]

Another question. I am watching MTV right now as it was on by default. The TV shows have black borders on the top and bottom but the commercials don't have borders, just curious why that is.

I don't watch alot of TV, so hopefully burnout of the screen is not an issue. I am starting wonder if I should have went with LCD.

[jagabo]

Another question. I am watching MTV right now as it was on by default. The TV shows have black borders on the top and bottom but the commercials don't have borders, just curious why that is.

MTV is showing a 16:9 video that was letterboxed in a standard definition 4:3 frame. They are upscaling the SD tape to 16:9 HD for broadcast. The ads that fill the entire screen are 16:9 HD. A lot of what is shown on HD channels is upscaled SD.

I don't watch alot of TV, so hopefully burnout of the screen is not an issue. I am starting wonder if I should have went with LCD.

I went with LCD so I wouldn't have to worry about burn-in. And because of the lower power consumption.

[DereX888]

In general I'd call bull or at least misinformation on plasma's burn-in.
At normal use I don't it'll happen any time soon.
My dad's 4yr old plasma (or maybe it is 5yrs already) still don't have any burn-ins, yet I'm sure at least 75% of what he watched on it in all the years was old 4x3 stuff - or maybe even more, like 90% (just occasionaly he turns on HT or Discovery channels, but regularly he just watch his old 4x3 stuff).
Maybe if you use one in a pub or such place where it'll run most of the day non-stop, and you'd watch all the time only 4x3 material, then yeah - I'm sure you'll get both side pillars "burnt-in" on your screen rather soon.
Other than that, with average use, you don't have to worry about it.

Anyways the power consumption is huge, as everyone knows, and what those who don't have plasma don't know - plasmas' secondary function --by design-- is to work as small heaters for cold winter days of northern hemisphere areas... therefore they are highly *not* recommended for i.e. any non-airconditioned rooms in tropical areas

[Maikeru-sama]

I did some research on the Internet and I have done the following:

1) The default Contrast was 95, most on the Internet said lower that to at least 50, for at least the first 200 hours.

2) Do not leave the TV on for more than an our and do not watch static borders for more than 2 hours.

The manual says that I should try to watch everything in 16/9, but I have DVDs that 4/3, so I am using the "ZOOM1" setting for those so that the entire screenis pretty much filled in.

I thought ZOOM1 would be a problem for burnt in subs, but I am testing alot of them now, and the subitles are large and there is no overscan issues.

If I can prevent this burn-in effect, I think I am going to love this TV. The burnt-in subs are huge, where on the 19 inch CRT, they were pretty small.

Anyway, I gotta start writting some code, I appreciate all the help and if you have any other suggestions let me know.

[edDV]

I did a quick analysis of plasma power consumption and found plasma power required is a function of pixel count. 1024x768 sets use the least, 1920x1080 native sets use proprotionatly (~4x) more. LCD panel power consumption scales with backlight area not pixels. Larger screens use more power linear to area. Future LCD backlights will use LED instead of CFL. Power will then drop.

[DereX888]

I did some research on the Internet and I have done the following:

1) The default Contrast was 95, most on the Internet said lower that to at least 50, for at least the first 200 hours.

2) Do not leave the TV on for more than an our and do not watch static borders for more than 2 hours.

The manual says that I should try to watch everything in 16/9, but I have DVDs that 4/3, so I am using the "ZOOM1" setting for those so that the entire screenis pretty much filled in.

I thought ZOOM1 would be a problem for burnt in subs, but I am testing alot of them now, and the subitles are large and there is no overscan issues.

If I can prevent this burn-in effect, I think I am going to love this TV. The burnt-in subs are huge, where on the 19 inch CRT, they were pretty small.

Anyway, I gotta start writting some code, I appreciate all the help and if you have any other suggestions let me know.

My dad's had constrast at 100% IIRC.
Whenever I set anyone's tv, I usually take it down to 50% or 60% of the scale line, depending on the tv.
But I had to keep one LCD back at factory pre-set 100% because it was really dim and lost the contrast at anything less (it was cheap and crappy Magnavox)

I don't know zoom mode of your model, but the way it usually works it either streches 4x3 to fill-in 16x9 area (thus it distorts the picture, i.e. the circle will become sideways stretched oval) or it really does zooming (whereas the top and bottom parts of 4x3 picture are cropped away). Either one is unacceptable to me.

I did a quick analysis of plasma power consumption and found plasma power required is a function of pixel count. 1024x768 sets use the least, 1920x1080 native sets use proprotionatly (~4x) more. LCD panel power consumption scales with backlight area not pixels. Larger screens use more power linear to area. Future LCD backlights will use LED instead of CFL. Power will then drop.

So, 2073600px screen consume ~4x more power than 786432px, while it has only ~2.5x more pixels?
Its strange there is such big disproportion.
I would think the power consumption should grow proportionally with the pixels count.

[edDV]

Some links for plasma burn in analysis
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6844370-1.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2076395_prevent-burnin-plasma-tv.html
http://www.plasmatelevisions.org/article/plasma-television-tips/gaming-on-a-plasma-tv-...-problems.html

[DereX888]

Some links for plasma burn in analysis
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6844370-1.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2076395_prevent-burnin-plasma-tv.html
http://www.plasmatelevisions.org/article/plasma-television-tips/gaming-on-a-plasma-tv-...-problems.html

thx
(I hope you didn't mind me asking, I have just never researched it before - we all know plasma needs its own power generator but I was just surprised to see such disproportions between pixel counts and how much electricity they gobble up)




/edit

"The Bottom Line on Burn-In

Plasma TV burn-in is not an issue that should cause undue concern in the average user. With a modicum of caution, most plasma TVs will probably never have a problem with image retention. A viewer may experience temporary ghosting, but this is not cause for alarm. "


That's just exactly what I said 6 posts earlier

[DereX888]

/delete - double post/

[Maikeru-sama]

My dad's had constrast at 100% IIRC.
Whenever I set anyone's tv, I usually take it down to 50% or 60% of the scale line, depending on the tv.
But I had to keep one LCD back at factory pre-set 100% because it was really dim and lost the contrast at anything less (it was cheap and crappy Magnavox)

I don't know zoom mode of your model, but the way it usually works it either streches 4x3 to fill-in 16x9 area (thus it distorts the picture, i.e. the circle will become sideways stretched oval) or it really does zooming (whereas the top and bottom parts of 4x3 picture are cropped away). Either one is unacceptable to me.

Not sure which one it does, but it definately does not look destorted. However, the GUI says that Zoom1 stretches 16/9 vertically. The Gui says Zoom2 stretches Zoom1 even more vertically and that option you cannot see the subtitles that are burnt-in.

I still have another 19" CRT in my bedroom and after looking at the Samsung and then that one, my eyes started to hurt as you can really tell the difference.

Only time will tell if I have major problems with burned-in or not.

[edDV]

We should say that plasmas still have advantage for picture quality at black level and low brightness (gamma). They are better for movies but have quirks. LCD has advantage in bright environments and for resolution.

[DereX888]

Only time will tell if I have major problems with burned-in or not.

Certainly it depends on the the quality of the phosphorus layer of your screen.
In any case, with ordinary use you shouldn't worry about burn-in.
I remember same kind of "precautions" circulating the web when DVDs came out - the horror stories of burn-in black bars due to users viewing just few WS dvd movies on their FS CRTs and such
I've been watching only WS versions on my old S*ny Trintron always (unless of course on rare occasion there was only FS version) and I haven't ever got any burn-ins there either.

[Dearg800]

For starts a quality plasma is unlikely to burn. You are dead right about the contrast thing. a little effort now will pay dividends in the future. Remember your remote, control the ratio of the picture you are watching; you don't have to have borders. Often a residue image can be left on a plasma but it fades quickly. The biggest threat of burning on a plasma screen is actually a dvd menu i.e. someone in the family watching a dvd doesn't watch the end of a film leaves it to run to the end and it returns to the top menu. Be careful of that one and you'll be fine.

[jagabo]

In general I'd call bull or at least misinformation on plasma's burn-in.
At normal use I don't it'll happen any time soon.
My dad's 4yr old plasma (or maybe it is 5yrs already) still don't have any burn-ins, yet I'm sure at least 75% of what he watched on it in all the years was old 4x3 stuff - or maybe even more, like 90%

My dad's experience is the exact opposite. He bought a Samsung plasma about six months ago. A month later I could see obvious pillarbox burn-in.

[DereX888]

In general I'd call bull or at least misinformation on plasma's burn-in.
At normal use I don't it'll happen any time soon.
My dad's 4yr old plasma (or maybe it is 5yrs already) still don't have any burn-ins, yet I'm sure at least 75% of what he watched on it in all the years was old 4x3 stuff - or maybe even more, like 90%

My dad's experience is the exact opposite. He bought a Samsung plasma about six months ago. A month later I could see obvious pillarbox burn-in.

One month later!
Did he left dvd running static menu for entire month?

[jagabo]

In general I'd call bull or at least misinformation on plasma's burn-in.
At normal use I don't it'll happen any time soon.
My dad's 4yr old plasma (or maybe it is 5yrs already) still don't have any burn-ins, yet I'm sure at least 75% of what he watched on it in all the years was old 4x3 stuff - or maybe even more, like 90%

My dad's experience is the exact opposite. He bought a Samsung plasma about six months ago. A month later I could see obvious pillarbox burn-in.

One month later! :shock:
Did he left dvd running static menu for entire month?

Just normal TV viewing. Mostly 4:3.