DVD recorder with VBR?

[moxiecat]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for a second DVD recorder to add to my JVC DR-M100, which might be going in for repair soon. After much research on this forum, I'm looking primarily at the LG DR-1F9H, the Toshiba DR-5 or RD-XS35, and the Pioneer 640H-S (haven't decided if I need a hard drive or not--is there a Pioneer that doesn't have a HDD?).

I'd like to get another with the LSI chip, which is the primary reason I'm looking at the LG. However, I can't find anywhere if the LG does VBR encoding, which I think is important. Does anybody have any insight into the LG and its VBR ability? I believe the Pioneer and the Toshiba do have this feature.

The important issue to me is excellent picture quality. I use the machine for a good video transfer, mostly in the 1 or 2 hour range, and then do any MPEG editing and DVD authoring on the computer. I'm interested in the LG because it has the LSI chip and is said to be close to the JVC in build; the Toshiba because many on here extol its picture quality; and the Pioneer because of its recording time/5-min interval setting (very cool).

Advice from others is most appreciated. Thanks!

[Seeker47]

and the Pioneer 640H-S (haven't decided if I need a hard drive or not--is there a Pioneer that doesn't have a HDD?).

Yes, I believe they were the models 320 and 420, if any are still being sold. But trust me: you may not realize it yet, but you'll wind up wanting and liking the HDD. I have greatly enjoyed my 520.

I'd like to get another with the LSI chip, which is the primary reason I'm looking at the LG. However, I can't find anywhere if the LG does VBR encoding, which I think is important. Does anybody have any insight into the LG and its VBR ability? I believe the Pioneer and the Toshiba do have this feature.

Don't know about the LG, and I'm not sure about the Toshiba, but the Pioneers definitely offer this feature. I know the LSI chip has a certain rep, but I've been quite pleased with the pq on the Pioneer. There is a very long thread about the 640 over on AVS forum. This is apparently going to be the last DVDR model from Pioneer. In fact, I think I read that even bargain brand Lite-On is getting out of the biz, as this whole DVDR category seems to have had rather disappointing sales results, and failed to put much of a dent into Tivos. (And I find that astounding !)

the Pioneer because of its recording time/5-min interval setting (very cool).

Something else too, in case it matters: you could stack two 520s or 640s on top of each other, and it would be about the same size as one of the Toshiba models I've seen, plus I think the two stacked Pioneers would not be as wide. That happens to be a plus for the cabinet where I have mine.

[moxiecat]

Seeker, thanks very much! Sounds like I should place my order for a Pioneer before they vanish like the JVC DR-100 did.

[Seeker47]

Seeker, thanks very much! Sounds like I should place my order for a Pioneer before they vanish like the JVC DR-100 did.

If you need to buy one online -- and you might, seeing as the common retailer that carried the line was the now defunct Good Guys, and the Pioneer standalones became rather hard to find on display shelves -- be sure to get it from a Pioneer authorized dealer. This has important implications for the warranty. I've heard they were sold on Amazon. Also by Vann's and OneCall. The only one of these I'm sure has authorized status is OneCall. On occasion recently they have even had this model on sale. (Supposedly, certain WalMart locations had been closing out the non-HDD models . . . but not any location I ever walked into.)

Another point in favor of having the HDD model: with just the burner, you would be limited to real-time recordings only, and I have to suppose that the burner being in so much heavier use it is apt to have a shorter service life.

[BCdave]

moxiecat, I have two LG recorders (LGR 435 & the 80GB HDD model LRH-780). The manuals of both say"Recording times shown are not exact because the recorder uses variable bit-rate video compression."

Both of these models seem to be available only in Canada, but the LRH-780 contains the same current generation LSI chip and video enhancement features as the DR-1F9H. Here's LSI's press release: http://www.lsilogic.com/news/product_news/2006_07_25a.html

If you have a JVC recorder, then I don't need to mention the amazing video quality from the LSI chip. The LG recorders are also multi-format, including +RDL, and record audio as Dolby Digital.

The one desirable feature lacking in the LG's (and which JVC, Toshiba & Pioneer have) is Flexible Recording. I work around that by recording in 1 hour or 2 hour mode, and processing on computer.
When I purchased the LRH-780 two months ago, I had a similar short list as yours: LG, Toshiba & Pioneer (but all HDD models). I believe that they're all exceptional machines; however, the video quality from the LSI chip trumped all other considerations for me. Oh, yeah: my earlier LGR435 is still going strong, and my LG's seem to have no nasty quirks ... at least, none that I've discovered.

[lacywest]

I've got 4 Panasonic EH50 DVD Recorders ... with the 100 GB harddrive ... two of them are not in use ... they are extras ... just in case. One was bought at Circuit City as a table display and the other three from Ebay ... the fourth one ... I haven't even fired it up. They work great for me. I record TV shows with commercials and use the editing function to trim out the commercials ... works very nicely.

When the source comes from a HD broadcast or a HD channel [I have Directv and OTA HD choices] The end result looks very good when burnt to DVD-Rs ... looks like a DVD Rip ... with the 16:9 ... wide screen effect.

[FulciLives]

Go with the Pioneer DVR-640H-s as it is a most excellent model that features not only VBR encoding but also selectable bitrate (which you set by picking the recording time).

Alot of other brands do not offer selectable bitrate. For instance they have 1 hour, 2 hour, 3 hour, 4 hour etc. but if you have a 90 minute movie you have to use the 2 hour mode whereas with the Pioneer there is a 90 minute mode or if you want to not cut it "too close" there is a 95 minute mode etc.

So in my example (90 minute movie) if you set the Pioneer to 95 minute mode (just to be safe space wise) then the bitrate is adjusted to fill a DVD at 95 minutes instead of being forced to use the 2 hour mode and waste 25-30 minutes worth of bitrate.

I should point out that I favor Pioneer because I have the Pioneer DVR-531H-s and my experience has been mostly great in relation to the performance i.e., the quality and ease-of-use. Now I should mention that I've been having some burning issues as of late although I've figured out a way to "trick it" but the burner is definitely "acting up" and I've only had it for 14 months now give or take. However I don't blame Pioneer for making a "bad" product as it seems I am in the vast minority for people having burning issues. I guess I just got a "bum" unit or wore it out already (I have burned a lot with it). I've yet to hear anyone have trouble yet with the DVR-640H-s and reports of the 531/533/633 models having burning issues is very low (I've only heard of 2 other people from me complain about it). So I still like Pioneer because some burning issues aside it really is a great unit both in image quality and features.

The only other stand alone DVD recorder that I would consider is the Toshiba RD-XS35 which is in the same price range as the Pioneer DVR-640H-s with the same features (160GB HDD, VBR, selectable bitrate) so I concede that the Toshiba is also a very good choice.

But that really is about it these days. All other stand alone DVD recorders have one issue or another that makes them deal breakers for me.

For instance the new Polaroid at WALMART is an 80GB HDD model that uses the LSI chipset (ala JVC) but it has no selectable bitrate ... just fixed recording modes. Now they did add a 2 1/2 hour mode and a 3 hour mode (amazing some DVD recorders go straight from 2 hour mode to 4 hour mode) but still I like having some control over the bitrate other than 1, 2, 2 1/2, 3, 4 hours etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[moxiecat]

BCdave, thanks for the tip on the LG manual. I found the manual for the DR-1F9H on the LG website and tracked down the same passage about VBR in it. Mystery solved! It is a VBR machine with an LSI chip. But as you said, it doesn't have the selectable bitrate.

I think I will probably spring for the Pioneer, but I will have to order one. I usually order from B&H when the machine isn't available locally--they're reputable as Pioneer dealers, right? I've never had a problem with them.

I may get an LG or Toshiba in the meantime, just to fill in...they are available at my local Best Buy.

Thanks for the help.

[samijubal]

Toshiba is VBR too. I don't know about LSI, but it has the best picture quality I've seen. If you get one with a HD, you can set the bitrate in .2 increments, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, etc.

[moxiecat]

Sam, I am strongly considering the Toshiba RD-XS35. But I am a little confused by that "recording duration" chart that's in the Toshiba owner's manual. Is that more complicated than it looks? I know for the Pioneer, you just set it by 5 minutes intervals (depending on how long your video is). But this combines audio settings as well as video bitrate settings, correct?

Say I wanted to record a 1-hour-30-minute video onto the HDD at the best quality. Then transfer that to a DVD-R at an optimum bitrate to fit it on the disc. Is this relatively simple, and would I use the chart to do figure out what audio and video settings to use?

Why does the chart only give settings for HDD and DVD-RAM (what about DVD-RW and -R?) Or do the sound and picture quality rates that end up on the DVD depend on how they were originally encoded into the HDD?

These are definitely things I've been wondering about the Toshiba. Maybe I'm making it more difficult than it is! Thanks for your input.

[samijubal]

When you set the bitrate, it will give you an approximate record time. If you want to do a 1 1/2 hour recording, you'd just set the rate to 90 minutes, that's the way it gives time in minutes. The rate starts at about 2 minute increments and increases as the record time goes up. There's only 2 audio settings, preference to video, or preference to audio. The bitrate changes only affect video, not audio. You'd record on the HD with the highest rate possible to fit on a disc, then just burn to DVD. Changing the original bitrate won't improve quality and may actually decrease it.

[RabidDog]

I think the pIoneer 440hx also uses an LSI chipset.. according to the video on their website.

[trhouse]

Panasonic DMR-ES20's and ES40V's also use the LSI encoder and have VBR. You select the recording time in hours and minutes in flexible recording mode and the recorder calculates the appropriate bitrate to fit the time.