Upgrade

[CSULB71]

I'm a bit confused on what DDR RAM to buy for my mobo and CPU upgrade I'm doing. I bought an Abit NF7-S v2.0 board and an AMD Athlon XP 2200+ CPU. The mobo will support up to PC3200 RAM (400 MHz), but the CPU is rated at 266MHz. Does this mean I should buy PC2100 RAM (266 MHz), and any higher-speed RAM would only operate like PC2100 at 266 MHz because of the CPU? Or doesn't the CPU MHz matter, and the board will run at up to whatever speed RAM is used (up to PC3200/400 MHz)? This is without overclocking in mind (maybe later?). Thanks.

[redwudz]

The Abit NF7-S v2.0 supports PC3200 RAM. The price is really not much more and your memory will be good for a different setup in the future. If you use a Barton version CPU, it will run at 400FSB. Otherwise it will run at the CPU FSB speed. But it will be underclocked, which is good for cooler running and longer life.

If you want to OC, here's one link : http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/motherboards/ABIT_NF7_v2.0_1.html

Even if you don't want to OC the CPU, there's usually some other good setup info on the OC pages.

[CSULB71]

By "underclocked", you mean the RAM (say I use PC3200) will be running at the slower speed equal to PC2100 due to the CPU effective limit of 266MHZ? Sounds 8) to me! Thanks for the link -- I may try some mild OC'ing tweaks once I know the system runs correctly at factory settings.

[redwudz]

Correct. The memory would be underclocked for it's specifications. The memory will run at the speed the CPU/MB sets. One thing to watch with a Socket A CPU is the temperature of the processor. The Bartons, especially, need good cooling. When you first boot the system after your upgrade, go directly to BIOS and check the temperatures and voltages. If you overclock in the future, these become even more important.

That MB has a Nvidia chipset, which is easy to OC. Having faster memory will make that even easier. You don't have to do a major OC. You can go up maybe 5-10% and get a good performance improvement, without stressing the CPU that much. That would make your 2200+ to maybe a 2400+, depending on the settings.

[normcar]

Remember, after buying memory or a new system awlays run a memory tester like memtest. Even the best memory may have bad modules. If you don' find a bad memory module, it can create wierd system problems.

[CSULB71]

Good idea to use a memory tester... I'll keep it in mind.
And this might seem like a dumb question, but if I buy PC3200 RAM, will its performance be slightly less by running at only PC2100 speed (due to my XP2200+ CPU limit) compared to using PC2700 RAM which is closer to what it "should be" (i.e. PC2100)?

[redwudz]

No, it's performance will be the same as a lower speed memory at those settings. The speed is set by the MB and the CPU. If you find a lower speed memory that meets your motherboard specs, get it. In general the faster memory is just better quality, but if the price difference is excessive, and you don't plan on any upgrades or overclocking, get the best for the price. Usually the PC3200 is more popular and the price difference isn't that much.

Presently memory prices are on the high side. They go up and down like the stock market. A few months from now, they may be quite a bit cheaper.

If you are shopping for memory, go for a name brand, with a lifetime warranty. Mushkin, Crucial, Corsiar, and several other big manufactures are always the best value VS performance and quality. A no-name manufacturer with a 90 day warranty is not a good value.

If you want a quality bargain memory, Corsair Value Select memory may be one good choice.

[Scorpion King]

Overclocking a system 'can' cause problems and if you are not willing and knowledgeable about these you may not want to even consider overclocking. Overlclocking can cause loss of the data on your hdd and even make the system unbootable and make it necessary to reinstall your operating system and all your programs. Overclocking can cause a system to hang, reboot, freezeup, error, write error data to the hard drive, etc. Mission Critical systems are never overclocked for a reason.... dependability. Overclocked system 'might' not be very dependable....

Learning to overclock a computer is as hard to learn as capturing and editing video, but probably even harder. Some serious overclockers will solder wires and resisters etc onto their motherboards to overvolt the cpu,etc. Overclocking is a speciality of itself and is something I, nor anyone else that know it, can recommend it to the weak of heart or spirit. If you're going to do it then you also need to get pretty serious about it and learn the ins and outs about it. Guessing the knowledge just isn't going to fly...

If you have data on your hdd that you just can't afford to loose. If you don't want to worry about a few degrees of cpu temperature or a little dust in the heatsink, then don't even consider overclocking. If you do then start reading about it, not here, but at serious overclocking forums and test sites. There is a lot to learn and it is changing every day. lol

If you're going to OC then get the best/fastest ram you can. If not then get the min required. The min required will be good enough because it's already been tested to run at that specific speed and voltage. It might even run a little faster... but it 'might' not be ..... dependable.... lol

Best of luck.

[normcar]

If you use the system for video encoding, gaming, or some other project that requires the CPU to run at 100% for an extended period of time, you should get a good CPU Cooler. The standard coolers are really not good enough for running at 100% CPU for extended periods of time.

Also add as many case fans as it will hold. They are cheap as compared to lost components due to heat related problems. Also a good powersupply is important too, as many cheap PSs do not put out the power that they are rated for.

[Nelson37]

If you purchase boxed CPU with a three-year warranty, using any cooler but the one supplied with it voids the Warranty. Really not necessary unless Overclocking, which IMO is simply not worth it.

On the RAM speed - check pricing carefully, consider when your next mobo and CPU upgrade will be. You don't support ddr 400 or 533 now, but someday you will and wouldn't it be nice to already have the chips on hand? Never had a problem using faster RAM than the board supports, Since I upgrade regularly I usually get the faster RAM when it is just a few bucks more.

I very rarely encounter defective or failed RAM, whether new or used or from major manufacturers or el cheapos. Out of 20 - 30 sticks around my office right now, the only bad one is from Crucial.

In some cases older 266MHZ ram is actually MORE expensive than ddr 400.

[normcar]

If you purchase boxed CPU with a three-year warranty, using any cooler but the one supplied with it voids the Warranty. Really not necessary unless Overclocking, which IMO is simply not worth it.

I burned out a motherboard and had other problems before I purchased a new cooler. The Intel stock CPU coolers are crap compared to the good coolers. I was running over 155F - 180F before changing coolers, and now run under 120F even with 8 harddrives and at 100% CPU usage.

Intel will never know you didn't use their cooler. Always set the bios shut down CPU temp to about 150F or less. That way you will not burn out your CPU or motherboard.

I very rarely encounter defective or failed RAM, whether new or used or from major manufacturers or el cheapos. Out of 20 - 30 sticks around my office right now, the only bad one is from Crucial.

I had a bad stick of Corsair Value ram and 2 bad sticks of Crucial, and a friend of mine had 3 bad sticks of cheapo memory bought during a sale at Best Buy. Always check ram, because its easy to check, and you don't want problems caused by it.

[Scorpion King]

.....the only bad one is from Crucial.

Nelson37, I too have had Crucial ram go bad. Not to mention how dissapointed I was after what I had paid for it.

Knock on wood.. but I have never seen a stick of generic ram go bad. Ive used Corsair ram in my last 2 systems with good luck, even when overclocking, it has performed very well. It might be a little more $$ but in my openion worth it.

As far as Intel OEM coolers I have 2 brand new ones (unused) in my junk bin. I wouldn't use them. My last system I had an old Hedgehog sink, and in this one I'm using a big Alpha sink. Both with good results, of course I lapped them...

Good luck all.

[redwudz]

The cooling necessary for a processor depends on the CPU model and brand. If you have to use a giant CPU cooler and a whole case full of fans, I would consider a different CPU.

Both AMD and Intel have several CPUs that run plenty cool enough for a stock heatsink. I have a AMD Athlon AM2 3800+ that idles at about 26C and gets up to about 37C after an hour of encoding. And that's with a stock cooler with a fan that runs at 1250RPM and case fans quiet enough that I can't hear hardly anything from the other side of the room except the hard drives and DVD burner. It also has a 5% OC.

I'm sure Intel has similar CPUs that run cooler than some in the past. The Barton CPU I mentioned earlier runs hot enough that the stock heatsink is not enough. Unfortunately some of the Socket A processors that you would be using with that MB also have a history of running warm. You probably have your reasons for using a Socket A system, though. The main thing is to monitor the CPU temps and if they are getting up there in the 55C area, you would need a cooling upgrade.

I've had a few RAM modules die on me, but since they were lifetime warrantied, they were replaced with no problem.

[Nelson37]

Have never had a functioning cooler, properly mounted, fry a chip. Not once in over 15 years and many hundreds of PC's. Not one single time. Have never seen temps approaching 180F, either, unless the fan was broke or the mount was bad.

The only ones that have had problems is where the chip fan has slowed or failed completely. This is quite rare on the Intel coolers, slightly less rare for AMD, and relatively common on the cheap-ass clones which you often find on store shelves.

Should you choose aftermarket fans, make certain to keep the original and if you have a warranty problem make sure to mount the original fan, you will need some way to simulate the accumulated dust build-up for a couple years usage. Having disassembled several of these, I believe this would be hard to fake.

I am not certain if the fan assemblies are serialized to match the chips. I am told by the guy who sells the chips (whom I have known for over 10 years) that Intel in particular is getting rather militant about this issue.

RAM failures are so rare that I never bother to test ram sticks. Mem testers also fail to catch intermittant problems, unless you run them for many hours. If I suspect a RAM failure, I just replace the stick, cheaper than my time for testing. Often the suspect chips will run OK in a slower PC. The crucial stick I mentioned earlier gives total failure to power up in one PC, causes a boot error in another, and in an older one will boot and run for about 5 minutes before BSOD. Off to the landfill.

[CSULB71]

OK, I went ahead and bought a stick of pc3200 DDR RAM (512 MB) for when I do the upgrade in a week or so. But the Mobo manual has a statement that I don't quite understand about the 3 available DIMM sockets: "We suggest you install DDR SDRAM modules from DIMM3 to DIMM1 sockets in order". Does that mean if I only install one RAM stick, it should go in the DIMM3 socket? Seems counter-intuitive. And where do two sticks of RAM go for the "Dual Channel" feature this board has, if/when I buy another stick of RAM -- DIMM1 and DIMM2? The manual doesn't cover this aspect at all. The DIMM1 and DIMM2 sockets are the same color (lavender, vs. DIMM3 which is blue), so is that a clue?

[redwudz]

Most MB manuals are confusing when it comes to memory configurations. I would read their recommendations as when using one stick, it should go in the DIMM3 slot.

Two sticks should go in separate channels. In your case, I would guess DIMM3 and DIMM2.

However you should be aware that dual channel usually needs a exactly matched set of DDR modules to work properly. But dual channel operation may only add a couple of percent of improvement in performance, depending on the controllers used and the RAM itself.

[CSULB71]

when using one stick, it should go in the DIMM3 slot... Two sticks should go in separate channels. In your case, I would guess DIMM3 and DIMM2.

Thanks, I just wanted a second opion as to what I thought the manual meant for one stick. So, it sounds like using DIMM3 and DIMM2 for two sticks is correct if not using as dual channel or if the sticks are of different MB sizes?

[Nelson37]

The multiple translations these manuals go through cause a lot of confusion. Some of them can be quite humorous. "If pin one be on Pin two, then pin 7 is behind pin 9". I never did figure out exactly what that one meant.

Generally, you go from 1 to 3 in order. It seems like both the manual and the color-coding are indicating a single stick for Slot 3, and/or Dual DDR sticks in slot 1 and slot 2.

Usually, a single stick can go in any slot.

I would put the two matching sticks in slots 1 and 2 and check the BIOS to see if Dual Channel or whatever they call it, is active.

[ahhaa]

On the RAM, I've heard it should all be the same, unless you know a lot about latency, etc. (I don't)

On the heating, many cases create hotspots, especially if you are using the flat IDE cables. (A Gateway I have doubles all the cables right over the RAM, creating a hollow like a bridge underpass; and it has a duct system from the PS that covers the CPU- the rest of the case isn't even ventilated!) Those round gamer's EIDE cables are probably well worth the money- and they make the system look much less messy.

Fans equal noise; if you are doing an AV computer, keep 'quiet' in mind! Sounds like fun!:]