General Question About DTV

[Videonoobie]

I'm kinda new to the whole DTV thing. I just heard that theyre switich over to DTV in 2009. I'm planning on getting a new TV. Is it time to get a DTV as opposed to an analog tv? Also, wats DTV ready? Does a component video input already mean I have a DTV ready tv? Sorry if im asking dumb questions.

[yoda313]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv

Thats a good review of hdtv.

You'll have to read your tv manual to see if its "hdtv ready".

I would suspect you might be hd ready with component inputs but I can't say 100% for sure. EDIT - If you actually are hd ready than you'll need either an aireal hdtv tuner or a cable/satellite service with the hdtv package to receive hdtv broadcasts. You can buy an hdtv with a hdtv tuner built in but it has to say hd built in for it to have an included hdtv tuner.

[redwudz]

Here's a link that gives a fair explanation of HDTV: http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5102926-1.html

You can do a Google search for 'hdtv explained' and get quite a few more.

I would not invest much money in an analog TV at present. If you can hold off a little longer, the HDTV sets are coming down in price as the production increases. Presently they are more than I want to pay. But I have a video projector that is HDTV, so I will keep my CRT analog set for a couple of more years.

[edDV]

Here are your choices:

1. Buy a normal SD analog TV. Look for one with one or more YPbPr (red-green-blue) connectors. That will allow component connection of a DVD player in 480i mode or to an advanced cable/dbs box without the losses associated with a NTSC or PAL connection.

It you don't use cable/dbs and get your TV from an antenna, you will need to buy an external DTV tuner ~2009 when the analog transmitters are turned off. This tuner will work best if connected to the YPbPr connectors as well.

2. Buy a low end "digital TV". These have displays similar to a normal analog TV (either 4:3 or 16:9) but include a DTV tuner for antenna reception. They usually also include an analog tuner. Display is from a digital frame buffer so these displays usually have a native digital resolution (640x480 or above). These standard definition sets will be the future low end TV.
example: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7631226&type=product&id=1130986501338

3. Buy a 16:9 EDTV. These have a higher quality SD resolution equal to DVD (720x480/576) and are usually capable of progressive display when connected to a progressive DVD player or an advanced cable/dbs tuner. Progressive connection requires a (wideband YPbPr connection capable of 480p or 576p). These may of may not have a built in digital tuner but as of July 2006, new sets >25" must have a DTV tuner in the USA. When HD digital channels are tuned, they display as 480p/576p.

4. Buy a HDTV. These have all the functions of an EDTV plus the ability to receive 720p or 1080i high definition broadcasts* and display in greater than 720x480/576 resolution. The actual "native" display resolution varies widely from about 800x600 up to full 1920x1080 depending on the TV. The most common LCD TV sets have 1366x768 (WXGA) native resolution.

*HDTV connections include wideband YPbPr, DVI or HDMI. DVI has been replaced by HDMI in current sets.

[Videonoobie]

that was really helpful. Thx. Anyway, I was looking at the specifications of my TV. It did have a component video, but it said "HDTV Compatible-No". Does that mean I wont be able to attach an external DTV tuner in the future?

[yoda313]

You can do an external tuner but it won't go up to hdtv specs. It will make it compatible with standard tv. For hd res you have to buy an hdtv.

[edDV]

DTV tuners for analog or SDTV sets will tune to the HDTV channels but then downsize them to 480i. They will connect to SD YPbPr component input with the three cables* plus audio. On a 4:3 set HDTV channels will letterbox and will look like this. SD channels will fill the screen.



On a SD 16:9 set it would fill the screen but still be 480i SD. Most TV stations will offer at least one SD and one HD subchannel. They have the option to show the same program or different programs on each subchannel. The big networks are expected to show the SD 4:3 version of the program on the SD channel and the 16:9 HDTV version on the HD channel.


*DTV tuners will also connect with composite or S-Video NTSC cables but the picture quality will be lower that way.

[choirislife923]

"HDTV Compatible-No". Does that mean I wont be able to attach an external DTV tuner in the future?

no, it just means that it wont do digital signals out of the box; you would have to get an external digital TV tuner (just like you said), which will downconvert the signal into standard def NTSC and send it out on S-Video or Component or RCA Composite.

[Videonoobie]

When you (edDV) said "DTV tuners for analog or SDTV sets" does that mean the SDTVs dont need an external tuner? Does it already have the downgrade thing inside? On the specifications of my TV it said "Tuner type (qty)=Standard TV (1)"[/list][/list]

[edDV]

When you (edDV) said "DTV tuners for analog or SDTV sets" does that mean the SDTVs dont need an external tuner? Does it already have the downgrade thing inside? On the specifications of my TV it said "Tuner type (qty)=Standard TV (1)"[/list][/list]

That tuner will become useless in 2009. The analog channels will go away. The new DTV tuners are called "ATSC" in North America and "DVB" in Europe.

First we are assuming you are getting your TV from an antenna. Cable and satellite boxes will stay much as the are except more will offer YPbPr (analog component) and HDMI connections that are superior to RF, composite or S-Video used today. YPbPr will be the best connection for SD cable or Sat.

If you are getting your TV over the air in NTSC over traditional VHF and/or UHF channels, then one day in 2009 all that will go away. You will need a new DTV tuner box and maybe a different antenna. This box will connect to the old TV with a choice of connections listed here worst to best.

RF (ch 3 or 4) like on a VCR
Composite NTSC + audio
S-Video NTSC + audio
YPbPr (analog component set to 480i) + audio

With those connections you will see the digital channels on any TV. SD channels will be roughly DVD quality, HD channels will be downscaled to 480i in the tuner and look like the picture above.

If you have an EDTV, you will also be able to receive HD channels in 480p over YPbPr if you choose.

If you have an HDTV, you will be able to get HD in 720p or 1080i from the tuner over YPbPr or HDMI.

Digital tuners will come in cheap (~$50) models intended for use with an analog TV (limited connections) all the way up to HDTV compatible models with HDMI connections.

[Videonoobie]

So, since my SDTV has a YPbPr connections, I will basically get the best picture quality a CRT Analog Tv can get. The TV I have is basically only 3 years old. Would you suggest thats I buy a HDTV or EDTV instead of worrying about whether Ill be able to watch TV 2009<?

[edDV]

So, since my SDTV has a YPbPr connections, I will basically get the best picture quality a CRT Analog Tv can get. The TV I have is basically only 3 years old. Would you suggest thats I buy a HDTV or EDTV instead of worrying about whether Ill be able to watch TV 2009<?

CRT quality varies over a wide range. The connector is only part of the story. If your SDTV is high end, say in the class of a Sony XBR, you would get a superior picture using an external DTV receiver today. They are in the $150-500 range.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095
By 2009 the DTV tuner prices will probably drop to the $40-100 range.


Typical external DTV tuner - Motorola HDT101

Any new set over 25" manufactured after July 2006 is required to have an internal digital tuner. If you are buying a new TV, get one with the DTV tuner built-in and ignor the analog tuner. Most large cities have good DTV coverage today. It may take a few years in rural areas. This is because many small stations are running temporary transmitters at low power.

Check your local DTV station distances, direction and power by entering your street address into www.antennaweb.org

[Videonoobie]

Can someone help me figure out if this TV has a digital tuner and/or is it an HDTV?

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KV_32HS420/4507-6481_7-30895536.html?tag=sub

or

its the Sony 32 inch wega trinitron KV-32HS420

Ive seen reviews saying its an HDTV monitor, but the cnet specifications say its a standard tv.

[choirislife923]

Can someone help me figure out if this TV has a digital tuner and/or is it an HDTV?

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KV_32HS420/4507-6481_7-30895536.html?tag=sub

or

its the Sony 32 inch wega trinitron KV-32HS420

Ive seen reviews saying its an HDTV monitor, but the cnet specifications say its a standard tv.

from the specs, it looks like its a standard TV that can accept off-air HD signals via HDMI and downscale them to regualr NTSC.

basically, the only HD signal this TV can accept is from Blu-ray, HD-DVD, some computers, or video game systems. even then, it will downscale it to NTSC, which makes it pointless.

[edDV]

Can someone help me figure out if this TV has a digital tuner and/or is it an HDTV?

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KV_32HS420/4507-6481_7-30895536.html?tag=sub

or

its the Sony 32 inch wega trinitron KV-32HS420

Ive seen reviews saying its an HDTV monitor, but the cnet specifications say its a standard tv.

This what is known as a 32" 4:3 aspect ratio "HD Ready" CRT TV. This set has a standard analog NTSC tuner. After this month, HDTV sets like this one (25" and above)will be required to also have an ATSC DTV tuner in the USA.

"HD Ready" means it is capable of HD display if connected to an external DTV, cable or DBS satellite tuner. It can receive 480p, 720p and 1080i over the component analog or HDMI connectors. It is also able to work in progressive DVD modes (480p/59.94 frames per second) when connected over analog component or HDMI.

So in summary, an external tuner is required to receive DTV or progressive/HDTV cable.

Reception of 720p and 1080i signals is a separate issue from how they are displayed. For instance, the low end $250 Sharp "digital TV" referenced above can "receive" SD and HD DTV channels but it can only display them as 480i (640x480 in that case) because 640x480 is the native display resolution of that set.

Here are the specs for the KV-32HS420.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002HVIBG/102-4112208-0115336?redirect=true&v=glance&n=172282

This Sony KV-32HS420 is capable of both progressive 480p display (at ~720x480 DVD resolution), maybe 720p plus interlace 1080i HDTV. For a CRT, these refer to electron beam scan rates to the back of the CRT mask. Like a computer CRT monitor, display resolution from the front of the set is limited by the dot pitch of the CRT. Typical consumer CRT dotpitch in this price range limits actual displayed resolution to about 800x600 to 960x720. These "native display resolutions" are usually not published for CRTs.

The actual CRT displayed resolution depends on how the image is scanned. For instance, a set like this will display widescreen 16:9 480p as a letterbox inside the 4:3 frame. Since the CRT dot pitch allows greater than 480p resolution, the TV will scan the 480p lines inside the 16:9 area and not waste scan lines in the top and bottom black borders. This results in a full vertical resolution DVD 480p display unlike what you get on a SD 480i TV which does waste scan lines on the black borders.

720p and 1080i HDTV are always 16:9. These are scanned in the same way but actual resolution displayed is limited by the CRT dot pitch and will rarely exceed 960x720 on a widescreen HD CRT or 960x500 on a 4:3 HD CRT. The 4:3 maximum vertical resolution is less due to the need to letterbox 16:9 HDTV. HD display on a 4:3 HD CRT has about the same vertical resolution as 480p but slightly more horizontal resolution.

For this reason, owners of a 4:3 CRT HDTV will get very little resolution benefit from an upscaling DVD player or from a HD/BD DVD player. Consider a widescreen CRT instead.

For their size, HD CRT sets usually make a superior overall picture vs. a similar size LCD, so I still like CRT best in the 25-34" sizes. A LCD panel in this size range may have 1366x768 resolution, but other factors favor the CRT, especially for SD display. The big disadvantage for CRT sets of this size is bulk+weight.

[lordsmurf]

There is no reason to buy a HDTV. The standard tv will still work with a digital tuner, and in fact most programming will not be HD anyway.

[davideck]

IMO, your next TV should definitely be HD. If nothing else, standard DVDs look surprisingly great when upconverted to an HDTV.

There is already a LOT of HDTV programming available OTA. PBS, network primetime shows, sports, even soaps! David Letterman and Jay Leno look awesome. Once you have it, you won't go back.

I also find it interesting just to watch the technology evolve. A golfing broadcast last weekend was switching between HD and SD cameras during the match...WHOA!

Even the local news is getting into the act. Several channels are broadcasting 720p in 4:3, occasionally switching to 16:9 for their mobile HD CAM.

[edDV]

There is no reason to buy a HDTV. The standard tv will still work with a digital tuner, and in fact most programming will not be HD anyway.

I disagree, by 2009 most broadcasts, including local news, will be in high definition. By 2009, large HDTV panels will be available under $1000.

KABC in LA was the first to go HD for the local news. Individual stories can be upscaled SD or HD similar to the way ESPN-HD handles sports.

[davideck]

For their size, HD CRT sets usually make a superior overall picture vs. a similar size LCD, so I still like CRT best in the 25-34" sizes. A LCD panel in this size range may have 1366x768 resolution, but other factors favor the CRT, especially for SD display. The big disadvantage for CRT sets of this size is bulk+weight.

I agree that the CRT HDTVs look incredible, but their weight and bulk compared to a sleek flat panel is tough to overcome.

I have also read reviews about CRT HD sets that cited geometry and/or convergence and/or focus issues, so flat panels have their advantages too.

[lordsmurf]

edDV, most everything will be upscaled.

Large markets may be HD - LA, NY, Dallas, Miami, etc - but not small/medium markets. They don't have the money for it. And many of them don't see the need. Hard sell.

[edDV]

edDV, most everything will be upscaled.

Large markets may be HD - LA, NY, Dallas, Miami, etc - but not small/medium markets. They don't have the money for it. And many of them don't see the need. Hard sell.

Money will be tight. Most stations will need to buy all new DTV transmitters for 2009 when new channel assignments and full power are mandated to coinside with the analog shutdown. First they had to buy temporary UHF DTV transmitters to meet the initial FCC requirement. Many or those will be used as DTV repeaters to fill in weak coverage areas.

Most local markets are just passing network HD programming and upscaling their own programming for now. Local studio HD will evolve. Equipment costs are coming down.

Network news will go HD over 2007-8. Larger local markets will move to HD for the studio news set with mixed HD/SD field production. Medium markets will soon follow especially where they compete with larger markets.

[davideck]

If you're not yet watching HDTV programming, then you're missing all the fun!
This is like when Color TV coexisted with B+W.
Sometimes the images are absolutely incredible.

[edDV]

If you're not yet watching HDTV programming, then you're missing all the fun!
This is like when Color TV coexisted with B+W.
Sometimes the images are absolutely incredible.

Some of the best stuff is on Discovery-HD. And then there are the oddball shows like the Sunrise series on InHD.

[choirislife923]

I say, if you can hold off buying a new TV for 3 more years, do it. The prices on HDTVs will be cheaper then.

I currently use two TVs, one from 1986, the other 1989, if I could hold off buying a new TV for 20 years [ok, it was a hand-me-down from my dad], 3 years is nothing.