What format should I capture in.

[trueman]

I have a WinfastTV 2000 Expert tv card in my computer which is a P4 2.4 ghz, 1ghz ram, 2 x 40gb pata hdd and 1 x 80gb sata hdd. Xp Pro.

I have a few questions regarding capturing with this card and some other general questions as follows.

1. What is the best format for me to cature tv shows in? I have been told avi, mpeg 4 etc etc so I am totally confused. I want to edit out the commercials and then burn the video to a dvd in most instances. What format should I capture in? Also what codec should I use as this confuses me even more. I notice that If I capture in avi I have heaps of codecs to choose from such as , dv, indeo, huffyuv, etc etc

2.I also want to put some video on a website but can use the windows media option in my cards capture settings which allows me to capture at a set file size suited to dial up, or adsl etc etc. This produces a wmv file. Is this okay to use?

3. I installed a codec called 3ivx which I read on a thread in this forum will work with my tv card. However when I go into my cards capture options the 3ivx codec is not listed as an option to select. Any ideas how to fix this?

4. I have read on this forum about a program called virtual vcr. Whats the difference between that and using the wnfastpvr software to capture your video?

5. In my capture cards settings there is listed some Pinnacle studio codecs. However I have since uninstalled Pinnacle studio yet cannot seem to get rid of these codecs that are listed. It even lists some indeo codecs but I have since installed lygos indeo codecs but canot remove the older ones. I also have some codecs that wont work in winfast but I cant remove them from the list. I tried to uninstall winfast, remove all references to it in the registry and start again but they are still listed. Any suggestions on how to get rid of these if possible?

Thank you very much for your help and advice.

[FulciLives]

I have a WinfastTV 2000 Expert tv card in my computer which is a P4 2.4 ghz, 1ghz ram, 2 x 40gb pata hdd and 1 x 80gb sata hdd. Xp Pro.

I have a few questions regarding capturing with this card and some other general questions as follows.

1. What is the best format for me to cature tv shows in? I have been told avi, mpeg 4 etc etc so I am totally confused. I want to edit out the commercials and then burn the video to a dvd in most instances. What format should I capture in? Also what codec should I use as this confuses me even more. I notice that If I capture in avi I have heaps of codecs to choose from such as , dv, indeo, huffyuv, etc etc

HuffyUV or PICVideo MJPEG (on the 20 setting).

Technically HuffyUV is considered to use less compression than PICVideo MJPEG but in my experience PICVideo MJPEG is better in that you know exactly what is going on colorspace wise whereas HuffyUV seems to do "odd" things colorspace wise depending on the version of AviSynth you are using.

2. I also want to put some video on a website but can use the windows media option in my cards capture settings which allows me to capture at a set file size suited to dial up, or adsl etc etc. This produces a wmv file. Is this okay to use?

Better to capture with HuffyUV or PICVideo MJPEG first then convert to whatever format you want be it MPEG-1 VCD spec or MPEG-2 DVD spec or DivX/XviD or WMV etc.

3. I installed a codec called 3ivx which I read on a thread in this forum will work with my tv card. However when I go into my cards capture options the 3ivx codec is not listed as an option to select. Any ideas how to fix this?

That codec is a MPEG-4 codec and MPEG-4 is a poor choice for a capture format. The DivX and XviD codecs are also MPEG-4 and should not be used as a capture format.

4. I have read on this forum about a program called virtual vcr. Whats the difference between that and using the wnfastpvr software to capture your video?

Your capture card uses WDM video drivers. There are several capture programs made to work with such a card. VirtualVCR is one as is iuVCR and TheFlyDS amoung others. The key to VirtualVCR is that it has a unique option to keep A/V sync that the other programs do not. It all depends on your computer's set-up (which is hard to define as in it is a bit of luck really) but with some computer systems VirtualVCR works very well but with other systems it does not. The only way to know is to try it. It is best if you have a separate Sound card rather than using the one so-often built-in to modern motherboards.

5. In my capture cards settings there is listed some Pinnacle studio codecs. However I have since uninstalled Pinnacle studio yet cannot seem to get rid of these codecs that are listed. It even lists some indeo codecs but I have since installed lygos indeo codecs but canot remove the older ones. I also have some codecs that wont work in winfast but I cant remove them from the list. I tried to uninstall winfast, remove all references to it in the registry and start again but they are still listed. Any suggestions on how to get rid of these if possible?

It can be next to impossible to remove certain codecs unless you do a complete system re-install on a freshly re-formated HDD. Having said that it shouldn't (knock on wood) be a problem that they are there ... just don't use them.

There is an excellent guide about analog capture over at the DOOM9 WEBSITE that you should definately read. The guide has been updated several times but last I read it ... it seemed to lean towards MPEG-4 conversion after the capture. So while reading it keep in mind that it seems to have this emphasis eventhough most of us will be converting to MPEG-2 DVD spec instead. Many of the same problems (such as AviSynth) are in use either way so it is still worth reading it all.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trueman]

Thanks heaps for your reply John. I am certainly going to read that article on the Doom 9 website.

Just a couple of more questions though.

1. I have set my capture card to capture video in PICVideo M-JPEG 3 Direct SHow compressor as this was the closest choice in my capture cards list of codecs. However I was not able to change the setting to 20 like you say.

2. I am finding that my editing software will not open any avi files that I capture despite me having many codecs installed. It only seems to open mpeg files.
If I open the file with g-spot I get the following.
AVI File Details
========================================
Name.........: news).avi
Filesize.....: 47.4 MB (or 48,596 KB or 49,762,816 bytes)
Runtime......: 00:00:54 (1,342 fr)
Video Codec..: Motion JPEG including Huffman Tables
Video Bitrate: 5992 kb/s
Audio Codec..: PCM Audio
Audio Bitrate: 1411 kb/s (705/ch, stereo)
Frame Size...: 480x576 (1:1.20) [=5:6]

Any suggestions?

Thanks aagin.

[FulciLives]

PCI capture cards have different aspect ratios as you will see when you read the DOOM9 CAPTURE GUIDE but generally speaking for DVD use you would capture at 720x480 NTSC or 720x576 PAL yet according to G-spot you have a capture resolution of 480x576 which is PAL SVCD resolution. So you need to find out where in your capture program you can change the resolution and also make sure you are set up to capture YUY2 as opposed to another colorspace such as RGB.

For creating a DVD your audio should be set to 16-bit 48,000kbps Stereo PCM WAV audio.

As for PICVideo MJPEG it sounds like maybe you need to re-install it as there should be more options than what you are getting. Remember PICVideo MJPEG is not FREEWARE but HuffyUV is FREEWARE so maybe you might want to try HuffyUV for now.

Also for simple editing I would suggest you try VirtualDubMod ... that is the "best" version of the VirtualDub program (which comes in many different versions) so again make sure you have VirtualDubMod.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trueman]

John,

I only had it set to 480x576 whilst I was playing around and have since set it back to 720x576.

Your good at reading minds as my next question was going to be what to set the audio at, so thanks for that.

My PIC video must have come with winfast or a codec Ive downloaded or maybe even from pinnacle Studio as it was already in my capture cards codecs list. Maybe thats why it doesnt have many options.

Okay I just tried to doa capture uisng huffyuv and pcm audio set how you suggested and I have sync problems. It seems the video plays to slow while using huffyuv.
What do you suggest I do from here?

Thanks again.

[trueman]

I have also noticed that I have to PICVideo options in my capture card.
One is
PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec
and the other is
PICVideo M-JPEG 3 Direct SHow compressor

The first one has all the extra settings including being able to set the quality to 20. I think it was installed with Pinnacle studio 10, which I had removed when I first started this post but have since reinstalled it.

So should I worry about the problem of sync in huffyuv or just stick with the PICvid instead anyway?

[trueman]

Just to add, I captured 5 minutes of tv with PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec and the audio you suggested and the file size was around 750mb. Isnt that sort of big for just 5 minutes of tv?

[FulciLives]

Just to add, I captured 5 minutes of tv with PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec and the audio you suggested and the file size was around 750mb. Isnt that sort of big for just 5 minutes of tv?

1.) Yes you want to use the PICVideo MJPEG VFW codec. Personally I would use this (on the 20 setting) instead of HuffyUV but that's me. Some people prefer that whereas some people prefer HuffyUV.

2.) The file size will be large. You are capturing very lightly compressed video and uncompressed audio. This makes big file sizes. In fact HuffyUV will probably be even bigger. If you want you can try PICVideo MJPEG on the 19 setting ... that uses more compression so the file size will be a bit smaller. If you have the HDD space use 20 but back in the day many people used 19 since it created a smaller file and the quality difference between 20 and 19 is negligible. Don't go under 19 though on the quality setting.

Also remember that this is a MASTER capture. After you capture you will edit then re-encode the capture to MPEG-2 DVD spec which will create a much smaller file. Once converted you can delete the original capture file although if you have the space I would wait to delete it until you actually burn a DVD-R and get a chance to test it. Once you are sure you are happy then you can delete the capture etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trueman]

okay no worries, thanks again for the help John.

might play around with the settings on 19 and 20 and see how I go.
If i was going to capture only for putting short video clips on a website what would you recommend I use?

[FulciLives]

okay no worries, thanks again for the help John.

might play around with the settings on 19 and 20 and see how I go.
If i was going to capture only for putting short video clips on a website what would you recommend I use?

The concept I'm trying to get across is that you capture in the highest possible quality that you can regardless of the size of the captured file because that is only a "temp" file that you will then re-encode to another "final" format.

I have no experience with encoding video for websites but it seems like they are usually MPEG-1 or WMV or RealVideo ... there is also QuickTime but the first 3 seem to be the most popular.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trueman]

Okay yes Im with you now. Better to capture in a good quality format and then reduce for dvd or even further for the web.
Hey thanks again for your help. I tried virtualdubmod but wasn't happy with the output. The video seemed to have lines in it and was poor quality. Also I found the tuner option in virtualdubmod very hard to use. However I still need to check all the settings yet so will keep playing around with it.

Thanks again.

[whitejremiah]

as far as capturing, try running with the regular version of virtualdub, i found regular virtualdub to be better for just capturing.........i personally ran into a few problems with virtualdubmod as well..........as far as not dropping the quality setting below 19....i dunno how far your planning on compressing it down, but if your going to go with a smaller resolution on the web, then even dropping down to 18 or 17 may be safe, but if you can afford the harddrive space, i'd just stick with either huffyuv or mjpg.........also do NOT try and apply video filters while your capturing, you will likely lose a lot of frames and the video will be choppy, also make sure not to run ANYTHING else while your capturing (perferably too, a reboot....as this will clear out any "junk" stuck in your ram.........) close out anything you dont need running for the capturing......this includes MSN/AIM/whatever other instant messanging programs, and if you can, disconnect your computer from the net and close down your antivirus and firewall............if not leave them open...but try and get your computer running as few programs as possible before letting it capture.....

[FulciLives]

My suggestion to use VirtualDubMod was to use it AFTER you capture to help edit the file etc. Not for actual capture use.

For a capture application I would try iuVCR, VirtualVCR or TheFlyDS.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Nelson37]

The lines you are seeing are normal, read up on INTERLACING.

Something you need to know about Huffy which I did not discover until much later. It is designed and optimized for Capture, NOT for playback.

Also it is important to not put too much emphasis on characteristics of the intermediate, temporary files. Assuming MPG for DVD is the final goal, that is where the evaluation should take place.

An initial capture with slightly oversaturated colors may look fine as an encoded MPG. A huffy capture with playback issues may produce a perfect, hi-quality MPG. Interlacing lines visible on a PC while editing will not be visible on a TV.

[Livesms]

And has anybody use HDX4 for realtime capturing?

I can't understand why setting like Q=1 and Qual=100%(Q=1.34) are present? I think Qual=100% is the same as Quant=1.

But PSNR test of both video encoded with both setting give such strange result

Q=1
Frame - PSNR
1 48.5487
2 48.6895
3 48.4568
4 49.0231
5 48.7567

Qual=100(Q=1.34)
Frame - PSNR
1 48.5487
2 45.1234
3 48.4568
4 45.7854
5 48.7567

And so on - changing 48-49 PSNR with 45-46 in a raw.

Can anybody tell why?

[FulciLives]

And has anybody use HDX4 for realtime capturing?

I have never heard of it.

Sorry.

You might want to start your own thead with a subject title such as, "Need help using HDX4 for realtime capturing"

That should hopefully get you some usefull responces.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Livesms]

And has anybody use HDX4 for realtime capturing?

I have never heard of it.

Sorry.

You might want to start your own thead with a subject title such as, "Need help using HDX4 for realtime capturing"

That should hopefully get you some usefull responces.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

No. I just want to decide what codec should I use to get best qualiti with wise bitrate.