NEWBIE: From Avi to MPEG-2 burn to DVD

[trash]

I have a avi file that I have hardsubbed srt using VirtualDub. Now I want to burn this hardsubbed avi file to a dvd. From what I understand I need to convert hardsubbed avi to DVD compatible MPEG-2 format.

One solution that I have read is topic:AVI to DVD MPEG (CCE or MPEGenc Encoder) https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=222898
This is complicated but looks as if it produces the best MPEG-2 format? Any other suggestions are welcomed
Question for above conversion in the first step joining AVI files: since I hardsubbed srt to an avi files does it mean that I have a multipart avi and therefore would need to VirtualDubMod to minimize future sound sync problem later on? It also mentioned to add all avi files what does that means. If I have a TV show with 20 epidsoles is that what it means?

Thanks for any clarification

[guns1inger]

I would first be concerned about the position of your subs. One of the biggest issues (and most common problems here for avi to dvd conversion) is the subs disappearing into the overscan area of the TV once it has been converted. It is a simple problem to fix, however the fix rules out a lot of common tools.

As for joining files - if each file is an episode, don't bother. Convert them as seperate titles and author accordingly.

If you must join, I would use avisynth. I say this because using avisynth is the best way to solve your overscan problems as well (assuming you have them).

I would use FitCD to create a basic avisynth script to resize with borders. Use this as the basis for your encoding. And start with a sample - perhaps one episode - to make sure you have everything right. If it works, move on from there.

Of course, the best option would be to soft sub during the authoring stage. This saves you having to do extra encoding to hard sub in the first place, then encoding again to mpeg2, and it removes the overscan issue from the equation, allowing you to use easier tools for the conversion.

[trash]

I would first be concerned about the position of your subs. One of the biggest issues (and most common problems here for avi to dvd conversion) is the subs disappearing into the overscan area of the TV once it has been converted. It is a simple problem to fix, however the fix rules out a lot of common tools.

As for joining files - if each file is an episode, don't bother. Convert them as seperate titles and author accordingly.

If you must join, I would use avisynth. I say this because using avisynth is the best way to solve your overscan problems as well (assuming you have them).

I would use FitCD to create a basic avisynth script to resize with borders. Use this as the basis for your encoding. And start with a sample - perhaps one episode - to make sure you have everything right. If it works, move on from there.

Of course, the best option would be to soft sub during the authoring stage. This saves you having to do extra encoding to hard sub in the first place, then encoding again to mpeg2, and it removes the overscan issue from the equation, allowing you to use easier tools for the conversion.

So your suggestion just to make sure that I have it correct is. If I start with avi and subtitle in srt. I should first softsub, not hardsub. Sorry could you explain step by step and what software I should use. I am fairly new at this and I just learnt to hardsubbed.

Thank you and thanks for you patience

[guns1inger]

Convert your avi to DVD compliant mpeg2.
Convert your audio to DVD compliant AC3.
Author your DVD, including adding subtitles.

Before you do any of this you need to look at what you are creating. From what you have described, you are wanting to create a multi-episode disc (in fact several, by the sounds of it). Look at the running time, and work out how many episodes you can fit to a disc. 2 hours a disc is a pretty good average to maintain quality. If you want more, you need to look at alternative resolutions such as half-d1.

Once you have a total runtime figured out, use a bitrate calculator to work out the bitrate you will be encoding at. This is the bitrate you will use for each episode, to ensure they will all fit when you author. Vcalc is good,or the online videohelp bitrate calculator.

Encode your video. My preference is to encode video seperately to audio. Makes life simpler, especially if the audio is VBR MP3. Encode all the episodes for the disc. Any good encoder will do. Tmpgenc is easy to use but slow. CCE or Procder are harder to set up, but faster encoders. HCEnc is free, and somewhere in between for speed.

Encode your audio. For 2 channel AC3, ffmepggui is pretty easy to use.

Authoring - I prefer DVD Lab Pro. It looks a bit daunting at first, but is flexible and powerful. DVD Workshop 2 is also very powerful. Both of this will do your subtitles, allow you to create menus etc.

Each of these steps is covered in detail in various guides and posts throughout the site, so I won't waste time replicating them. Think of this as a road map that just shows the highways. The streets are pages written by others.

[trash]

Convert your avi to DVD compliant mpeg2.
Convert your audio to DVD compliant AC3.
Author your DVD, including adding subtitles.

Before you do any of this you need to look at what you are creating. From what you have described, you are wanting to create a multi-episode disc (in fact several, by the sounds of it). Look at the running time, and work out how many episodes you can fit to a disc. 2 hours a disc is a pretty good average to maintain quality. If you want more, you need to look at alternative resolutions such as half-d1.

Once you have a total runtime figured out, use a bitrate calculator to work out the bitrate you will be encoding at. This is the bitrate you will use for each episode, to ensure they will all fit when you author. Vcalc is good,or the online videohelp bitrate calculator.

Encode your video. My preference is to encode video seperately to audio. Makes life simpler, especially if the audio is VBR MP3. Encode all the episodes for the disc. Any good encoder will do. Tmpgenc is easy to use but slow. CCE or Procder are harder to set up, but faster encoders. HCEnc is free, and somewhere in between for speed.

Encode your audio. For 2 channel AC3, ffmepggui is pretty easy to use.

Authoring - I prefer DVD Lab Pro. It looks a bit daunting at first, but is flexible and powerful. DVD Workshop 2 is also very powerful. Both of this will do your subtitles, allow you to create menus etc.

Each of these steps is covered in detail in various guides and posts throughout the site, so I won't waste time replicating them. Think of this as a road map that just shows the highways. The streets are pages written by others.

Thank you so much for your explanation or roadmap it is v useful. I have problem with bitrate calculator. I cannot open it even when i have completely installed the java pluggins. Help. It gave me a fatal error message. I have deleted and reinstalled both the calculator and java pluggins and still gave me the same message

[trash]

I have decided to use VideoCalc instead as suggested. I have 2 questions
1) If I have a file that is 2hours 13 mins is it too long that it would jeapodize the quality? It is giving me a result of calcuated bitrate 4411kbit
2) What is the space for extra files for? Is this for setting menus? What would I set it as usually?

THanks again for all your help

[kschang]

1) No, it won't affect quality. That's why you're using a bitrate calc: to maximize quality within the available space. VBR MPEG-2 allows you to save the space from portions that don't need it and use it on the portions that do need it, well, sort of.

2) Just being "safe", as bitrate calculators is really more of an ESTIMATE. The actual result can differ from the target by a few percentage points, and if it goes OVER, you can't burn the image to a DVD as it's TOO BIG! So, you aim under a bit and hope for the best. You also need room for the directory structures and other stuff.

[trash]

1) No, it won't affect quality. That's why you're using a bitrate calc: to maximize quality within the available space. VBR MPEG-2 allows you to save the space from portions that don't need it and use it on the portions that do need it, well, sort of.

2) Just being "safe", as bitrate calculators is really more of an ESTIMATE. The actual result can differ from the target by a few percentage points, and if it goes OVER, you can't burn the image to a DVD as it's TOO BIG! So, you aim under a bit and hope for the best. You also need room for the directory structures and other stuff.

1) VBR-MPEG2 is that the MPEG-2 that we convert to for DVD? Sorry I dont know what it is
Is there really a number that I could go by to let me know if I am actually really going to affect the quality of the DVD?

2) When you say aim under a bit what do you mean? If the caluclated bitrate is 4411 then do you mean I need to go less than 4411 to be safe? How much under should I give? If I go under then this would not affect the quality of the DVD? So in the Video Cal there is a space or a number I enter for extra space, what would be a reasonable number to enter for directory and menus etc?

[guns1inger]

1. When you encode you can encode in a number of ways. The three main methods are

CQ (Constant Quality), where the encode attempts to maintain a preset quality level throughout. Some people swear by this method, although you have no control over the size of the output. Personally, I don't like to place that much control in the hands of the encoder.

CBR (Constant BitRate), where the same bitrate is applied throughout the video. The file size is very predictable, however the bitrate might not be allocated very efficiently. Use this if you are putting 70 minutes or less on a disc.

VBR (variable BitRate), where the encoder varies the bitrate up and down throughout encoding process to give more bitrate to action scenes and less to talking heads and still scenes. You give the encoder a high/low/average to work with. VBR can be done in one pass, which isn't very efficent, or in multiple passes, where the encoder does an analysis pass first, then refines the allocation of bitrate as it goes. 2 or more passes will give you an accurate file size. 1 pass will not. Most commercial discs are VBR.

For your 133 minute file, you would use 4410 kbps as your average, and probably 2000 and 9000 as you low and high figures. 2 passes is the maximum your can do in most encoders, although CCE allows for more.

Remember though - each pass takes about the same amount of time, so a 2 pass VBR encode will take twice as long as a 1 pass CBR encode.

2. Encoders aren't 100% accurate in bitrate allocation. In your instance, you might choose to use 4400 as your average, to err on the side of caution. The extra space figure is for menus. A simple still menu takes up very little space, so the default 20 MBs that vcalc allocates is more than enough. If you are making motion menus or adding music, work out how big the files will be, and allocate extra space accordingly.

[kschang]

1) VBR-MPEG2 is that the MPEG-2 that we convert to for DVD? Sorry I dont know what it is Is there really a number that I could go by to let me know if I am actually really going to affect the quality of the DVD?

If by "affect quality" you mean you'll reduce the quality, the answer is NO. Don't worry about it. There is no such thing as a hard number that you cannot go below. Quality is completely subjective and if you're not trying to fit too much onto a single DVD (say, more than 3-4 hours on a single DVD-R) then quality will be fine.

I'm sorry if I confused you about VBR. I was trying to make a comparison with VBR MP3 vs. CBR MP3. Just ignore what I said unless you want to know the technical details.

2) When you say aim under a bit what do you mean? If the caluclated bitrate is 4411 then do you mean I need to go less than 4411 to be safe? How much under should I give? If I go under then this would not affect the quality of the DVD? So in the Video Cal there is a space or a number I enter for extra space, what would be a reasonable number to enter for directory and menus etc?

Uh... I didn't see what you entered into the BitRate calculator so I don't know if those are good assumptions or not. Menus in general take up VERY little space, only a few megabytes unless you're going for VERY fancy looping video menus with sound like Saving Private Ryan's menu or Pearl Harbor's menu. So I wouldn't worry about it either.

I do have one suggestion though... JUST TRY IT! You are spoiling the fun of discovery. We can provide suggestions, but it is up to you to actually try various things. You may waste some time, but that's why this is a hobby. Nothing is going to break if you do it "wrong", other than you wasted a few hours. Unless you're under a deadline to produce, I'd say relax, try a few things, and see how they go. Check the results, and see how you like them.

If it doesn't "fit" on a DVD, we can worry about that later. So just get the darn thing converted, authored, and see how big it is. Worry about fitting later.

[trash]

I am getting really fad up with this process. I have read and search internet for info from avi to dvd. Now I understand the general gist of it. I am now following the roadmap that you have given me
1) I already found out what the calculated bitrate should be.
2) I have also found that my video is 640X480 and DVD version would be 720X480. All I have to do is Bicubic Resize(720,480,0,0.5). However I have error with HCgui, at the bottom box it said HC.ini successfully processed, WARNING, file not found.
I have written on my computer notepad instruction AviSource() and then I have put the BiCUbic Resize. What I dont understand is that I cannot save the file name under extension .avs as specified.
I am at the point where I am about to give up cos I dont have a lot of time figuring this out. I can only do it when my baby is sleeping. I get really tired staying up this late to try and figure this out and still having a problem.

I understand now that I need use convert my video file to MPEG-2 dvd compliant file for each of the episode. Separately I need to convert my audion file to AC3 file dvd compliant file. Then I use a DVD software that would allow me to put my files, subtitle together with the ability to create menus.

Anyway I am not the person who usually gives up. Hope someone can help me through this process. Or else I am looking at a buying VSO software. www.vso-software.com Have you tried this software?

Thanks again in advance for your help

[guns1inger]

notepad saves with the extension .txt by default. If you put the filename fred.avs in the name field of notepad and hit save, it will save a file called fred.avs.txt. Stupid, but that's the way it goes. I use AVSEdit for most avs scripting jobs, but if I do use notepad, I remember to go back and change the extension afterwards. You can do this by highlighting the filename in Windows Explorer, then hitting F2 (rename) and changing the extension. If you can't see the extension, go Tools->Folder Options and click on the View tab. Make sure Hide Extensions for known file types isn't ticked. Click OK. Now you can see the .txt in the filename, and can change it.

VSO's ConvertXtoDVD is pretty good for what it does. It is fast, has some nice tricks up it's sleeve, and is worth having in your toolkit. However it is no substitute for doing it the long way when it comes to visual quality. (This would change if it could read AVS files, but it can't)

[kschang]

notepad saves with the extension .txt by default. If you put the filename fred.avs in the name field of notepad and hit save, it will save a file called fred.avs.txt. Stupid, but that's the way it goes.

Actually, it'll NOT append the .TXT extension if you choose "all files (*.*)", the only other choice other than "text files (.TXT)" in the filetype dropdown.

But it's far less intuitive than it is. Just use a notepad replacement like Editpad, Superpad, and the bazillion different ones out there.

[trash]

I am having difficulty encoding with HC. Is there any simple explanation on how to perform HC. I am reading DGDecode manual and also DGIndex and it is giving me a headache. ALso I was reading
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/hc.htm but it does not really give me any explanation on DDG index.
How is a newbie suppose to use this tool?

I was reading DGMPGDec Quick Start Guide, and it talked about source DVD VOBs. However, I am only have AVI files? I am using this HG encoder to encode AVI files to MPEG-2 DVD compliant file. So I guess you can tell that I am at a lost and do not know how to start.

Thanks in advance

[guns1inger]

You should not need DGIndex for avi files. Just load your AVS file, setup your encoding options, and set it going.

If in doubt about your avs file, the simplest test I have found is to load it into virtualdub first. If there is an error in the script, VDUB will tell you. If it is clean, load it into HCEnc and encode.

[trash]

Thanks I loaded my avs file into Virtualdub and it is okay.

Question about HCEnc
1) Remember I have 3 episodes that I am burning into one DVD. I am now ecoding each separate episodes using HCEnc. I have calcuated the bitrate for what these 3 episodes need to be into order to fit into 1cd. I enter this calculated bitrate into the HCEnc as the avg bitrate rightfor all these 3 episodes taht I want to fit into 1dvd? What do I set as the max.

2) on the side of the HCEnc main page there is a box that you can click on make DVD compliant. I clicked on taht before encoding and it said it would make dvd compliant. So then I clicked on encode and it is now processing. Do I need to click on that box which said make DVD compliant? So this is eactly what I need to do with the other 2 episodes that I need to burn on the same DVD.

After I encode the video part, I would need to convert audio to AC3 compliant. I checked and my audio file for all avi are in a MP3 file format. Do you still suggest using ffmepggui?

Lastly your suggest that I can author them together with DVDProLab with subtitles. When I am done with authoring, how can I preview to see if my sub and aud and video are all in synch before burning? Is there a way to check before burning.

Thanks advance for your help and patience in all your explanation. I thinking I am finally getting a general gist of this.
Thanks so much, this way I can save money to buy stuff for my baby instead of spending on a packaged software.

[guns1inger]

1. min - 2000, avg - calculated, max - 9000. The encoder will aim for the average, if it is 4000, then it is unlikely to ever get as high as 9000, and certainly won't sustain it for long if it does. It's all about averages. Some people recommend setting the min to a very low number. I am not one of them.

2. I don't use HCEnc, however CCE also has one of these boxes. The first thing I do when setting up an encode is untick it. I know that I have the correct resolution and bitrates etc, so I don't need the encoder making arbitrary decisions for me.

3. ffmpeggui is probably the easiest choice.

4. Unfortunately there is no audio or subtitle preview in DLP. You can see the sub positions in the sub editor, but you can see them overlaid until you compile the DVD to the HDD. Same iwth audio. Audio on the preview is part of version 2.0 (yet to be released). Just compile to the HDD, and play them back from there with a software player. I use PowerDVD for my testing.

[Nelson37]

Excellent progression! You have gone from thinking you had the answer, to getting a better answer, to fearing that there are no answers, and finally to realizing that while there are more questions than you originally thought there were there are also answers to all of them.

Keep reading and experimenting. Every failure teaches you something.

Get some RW disks, you will need them. Get them NOW!

Highly recommend a program called DVD2SVCD. Use it to convert a real DVD. This will show you what is possible, a detailed reading of the log file will teach you a tremendous amount about the whole process. This program will also handle an AVI, it is basically a frontend for a number of other programs, all of which will be useful in the future.

Also recommend Gui for DVDAuthor. It handles subtitles, is fairly straightforward to learn, and to date has never failed or produced a coaster for me.

[trash]

Thanks for all the help and encouragement.
I checked out the DVD2SVCD, however it looks to me as if it would only allow me to input 1avi and burn 1avi with subtitle at a time. I would like to put 3avi with subtitles into 1dvd. Does DVD2SVCD allow me to perform this?

Once again thanks for all your help and advise.

[trash]

What I dont understand is that we have encoded the video with calculated bitrate(the calculated bitrate number for 3 episodes fitting into 1 DVD) , but both the audio and subtitle did not have a place to put in the calculated bitrate information. So even if we author the video, together with audio and subtitle we know from the start that they are not going to synch up? Am I right?

[guns1inger]

Bitrate has nothing to do with playback speed. It is all about the space an asset will consume. For a 90 minute movie, a standard subtitle track will require around 3 - 6 MB. Audio has it's own bitrate, so does the video. When you use a bitrate calculator, you specify what bitrate you will use for the audio, what space you need reserved for extras (menus, subtitles, misc files). The calculator should take all this into account, and give you a bitrate for video that leaves enough space for everything else. I believe it is the RATE portion of bitrate that is confusing you. The rate is not the speed at which the movie plays back, but rather the speed at which data is processed. There is an upper limit to how fast data can be read from a DVD by a DVD player. The combined rate is 10080 kbps, for video + audio + subtitle. You won't be near this number unless you only put 1 hour or less on a disc.

Assuming you haven't edited the audio or the video independently of each other (or changed framerates etc), when you author the authoring software will put all this together so everything lines up.

[Nelson37]

I recommended DVD2SVCD primarily as a learning aid, as oppossed to an actual solution to your problem. When you see the quality of output from this software, when used with a DVD input, this will give you a yardstick to measure against. I though I had made some pretty good SVCD's until I saw what this prog could do. Then I copied its process to the extent possible, and greatly improved my output.

The log file details the process it goes through, and while it does not explain things very much, it will lead you to a LOT of useful information. It is kind of like watching an expert chef and noting his every action. Then you find out WHY each step was taken, and what effect it had on the final output. Learn from the very best, there is much you may not use now but might very well use in the future.

There is so much you need to learn, it is by no means hard but there is a lot of detail. Your question about audio synch related to bitrate kind of illustrates this.

If you do the DVD2SVCD process, and learn what every step in that log does and why, you will have advanced your knowledge tremendously. As a bonus, you will have a whole collection of extremely useful tools. Almost all free.

[kschang]

And another thing... AVI2DVD will process multiple files if you rename them into filenames with a sequence.

[trash]

Thanks for all your help and advise. I dont know if I should still continue under this subject in this section. However, here it goes.
Finally I have the courage to try to make the DVD using DVDLABPRO. I am running into the following questions/problems.

1) When I drag the video file into DVDLABPRO, it said GOP needs to be close. Therefore I re-encode the video file using HG encoder and select closed GOP. When I drag the new video file back to DVDLABPRO it did not give me an error. Is this correct way to do it ?

2) Since I am burning 3 episodes into 1 DVD, I used 3 different movies, adding audio and subtitle. When I hit compile DVD, it gave me an error" The Menu 1,2 and 3 has no menu and timeout infinity".
a) is this correct, can 1 use 3 different movies and when I hit project compile DVD is it going to let me join the 3 episodes ie movies together?
b) I was reading somewhere, someone suggested making a dummy that will connect all VST files. I did not understand how to do that and how to connect them together. Is it also going to support subtitiles?

Once again thanks for all the help. I am not even sure if this will work or whether anything will be out of synch.

[guns1inger]

1. It's not saying they have to be, only warning that they aren't. The only impact this has if you need frame accurate chapter points. I don't close GOPs, and just ignore the warning when it pops up. In the current update (1.6x) you can actually disable the check.

2. You have missed something when setting up your menus. If you post a screen shot of your connections window I might be able to work out what's happening, but it sounds like you have a menu that you don't actually reference or link to.

a) you can simply draw connections from movie to movie in the connections window, however playback will continue from movie to movie regardless of where you start. An alternate method is to create 4 links. 1 - 3 link to their respective episodes. These episodes do not connect to each other, and so play in isolation. Item 4 is a play all button that links to a playlist containing the three episodes in order.

b) If all episodes have the same format, resolution and aspect ratio, create a simple VTS project, put them and the menus in the same VTS, and make life easy on yourself. No need for VMG menus and bridges.

[Nelson37]

Gop question - it worked, so yes, its correct. This is generally not necessary and as mentioned, the error message can usually be ignored.

DVDLabPro- Many excellent features, however it failed for me a majority of the time so I chucked it. Others have reported similar experience. Recommend GUIforDVDAuthor, good features, subtitle support, free, has yet to fail in any way for me. It does everything I want to do, and it works.

Joining movies - authoring does not do this. It will allow playback of all three movies in sequence, with a slight pause in between. No need to join them together, they are seperate episodes, after all. If you want them joined, an editor will accomplish this.

One thing to keep in mind on software. You do not need the latest or most powerful. You need what will accomplish your goal, and does not crash or fail for no particular reason.

[guns1inger]

FWIW, I have never had DVD Lab Pro fail me. It has been stable, never caused sync issues, and does what I tell it to do. I know a number of people here have had issues, but in almost all cases the issues can be tracked back to poorly prepared assets, often created by dubious software such as WinAVI. I have created many discs with DLP, from simple no menu autoplay stuff, through to complex multi-motion menu discs, and it hasn't missed a beat.

[Nelson37]

Same files which DVDLab either crashed with or made a coaster, were used to produce completely functional disks in other authoring progs. Not once or twice, but four or five times.

It has some nice features, but its purpose is to make working disks, and for me, it simply didn't. With files proven to be good and valid, simple menu, nothing fancy, it just did not work.

If it works for you and you like it, great. In the time I spent trying to get it to work, I figured out GFDA, motion menus, backrounds, subtitles, autochaptering, and burned half a dozen disks. Better interface, everything I need, and works every time versus clumsy interface, never worked, not sure what it can do as all my time was spent figuring out what it can't do.

I most certainly would not recommend DVDLab to a newbie, or anyone else, for that matter.

[trash]

Okay I have attached a screen shot.
I am attempting 2a) mentioned above. 4 links . episodes1-3link to their respective episodes. So I have 3 different movies( ie episodes). These episodes do not connect to each other and they play independantly so you can see there is no connection bar between the movies. Item 4 is a play all button that link to all playlist containing the 3 episodes in order. I do not understand how to do that.
I have a playlist that has episodes1 on the top of the list then episodes2 then 3.
I am not sure if I would need a menu in the very beginning of the 1st episodes. The connection somehow does not look right to me. Hope you can see my screenshot

Ps: Please explain how to make a connection? Cos I tried to click on the button and drag across the 2 movies and it does not work.

Thanks again for your help

[kschang]

What graphics format is WPS? As far as I know WPS is a Microsoft WORKS file. Can't you put GIF or JPG or whatever?