What's the best program for taking my SVCD movie & burning it onto a CD

[CP/M User]

Hope someone can help, I'm really new to this stuff!

I've just gone through the burning tools section a see a list for a great deal of burners, but I don't know what does what in terms of taking my SVCD movie & burning it accordingly.

I tried this with NTI CD&DVD-Maker 7, but the movie becomes jerky at the 2 minute mark - before correcting itself at the end. The SVCD movie I made with the program certainally doesn't do this - which suggests NTI is.

Can I get a Freeware program which'll do the job if possible?

Thanks for your time.

[mats.hogberg]

You mean you have a SVCD compatible mpg, and want to author it as SVCD? In that case, look no further than to VCDEasy.

/Mats

[CP/M User]

"mats.hogberg" wrote:

> You mean you have a SVCD compatible mpg, and want to author it as
> SVCD? In that case, look no further than to VCDEasy

Yes, I created a SVCD using Convert Movie - from what was a WMV file, the transision seems to work fine.

But now after trying NTI CD & DVD-Maker 7 or VCDEasy, the movie simply stops & becomes jerky at 2:33 - before correcting itself in the last 60s. It's only a movie I made with my Digital Camera & it goes for about 5 minutes.

VCDEasy seize that the bitrate in the movie is too high - Convert movie has this bitrate set to 2415Kbit/Sec & should be around 2400Kbit/Sec - but if I alter this ConvertMovie can't successfully translate the movie. We use PAL here in Oz. - but I believe a NTSC SVCD has the bitrate. Can anyone telling me why this is happening please - I'm almost about to hit my head on a brick wall.

Just to clarify - the Jerky movement only seems to be occurning after I've burned the movie onto a CD. This wouldn't have anything to do with me having a DVD-Burner (minus the software) would it? I mean - for what I'm doing I don't really need anything like that as such - with DVDs costing more than ordinary blank CDs - the Camera seems to do the trick with what I'm using it for.

Thanks.

[mats.hogberg]

Many (standalone) players struggle with SVCD encoded at (or even near) max allowed bitrate. When I did SVCD, I never let the bitrate exceed 2000 kbps - as soon as I went over that, my player would start "stuttering", pausing to catch up. It simply couldn't pull data from the disc at the rate it was needed. If 2000 kbps is too low for you, for SVCD res, lower the res to CVD (1/2 D1).

/Mats

[CP/M User]

"mats.hogberg" wrote:

> Many (standalone) players struggle with SVCD encoded at (or even
> near) max allowed bitrate. When I did SVCD, I never let the bitrate
> exceed 2000 kbps - as soon as I went over that, my player would
> start "stuttering", pausing to catch up. It simply couldn't pull data from
> the disc at the rate it was needed. If 2000 kbps is too low for you, for
> SVCD res, lower the res to CVD (1/2 D1).

'Fraid I've still got problems with this

I lowered the res to CVD, lowered the buffer rate below 2000 (to 1840 I think) - but still have problems.

The only time I managed to avoid the Jerkyness was by saving it as a standard Windows Movie Maker file (approx 14Mb - as opposed to 200Mb), but the quality was terrible & jerked occassionally from the standard it was saved as in Movie Maker.

I'll probably have to e-mail the ConvertMovie makers & VCDEasy mob & see if there's something I can do about this.

Thanks.

[Cornucopia]

Sounds like you're using WMM as your editor.

If you've got a DV camera, roll that in to WMM, then edit, then export as DV-AVI file (will be type1, get a converter if you need type2). Then that will finish your usage of WMM.

Now, use a good MPEG2 encoder to convert to SVCD (TMPGEnc, Mainconcept, CCE).

I've NEVER had trouble getting the bitrate up to (almost) the SVCD limit. Still plays fine.

Scott

[CP/M User]

"Cornucopia" wrote:

> Sounds like you're using WMM as your editor.

Yes - Why? Is this a problem? Is there a better editor I could use which is Free? Or should I simply reduce the quality of the video.

I'm saving it as High Quality Video (Large) which produces this:

Width 640 pixels
Height 480 pixels

Video

Data Rate is 6511kbps
Video Sample Size 24bit

> If you've got a DV camera, roll that in to WMM, then edit, then export
> as DV-AVI file (will be type1, get a converter if you need type2). Then
> that will finish your usage of WMM.

No, I don't have anything like that. So I can't do that.

> Now, use a good MPEG2 encoder to convert to SVCD (TMPGEnc,
> Mainconcept, CCE).

> I've NEVER had trouble getting the bitrate up to (almost) the SVCD
> limit. Still plays fine.

Well I'll consider that if I don't need to resort to a DV Camera - I'm unsure if that's some kind of process I need to do in conjunction with the DV Cam.

Thanks.

[CP/M User]

Okay, I managed to change the WMV file which Windows Movie Maker created back into a AVI file - PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec seems to be a pretty good one for Compression - I just need to register it to remove the Text from my Movie - but at least it's a lot better - no slow down even with 2415Kbps Bitrate.

[mats.hogberg]

Don't know why Cornucopia mentions having a DV cam, as I have no problem exporting to DV from WMM, and I sure don't own a DV cam. Don't know the quality diff between picvideo and DV AVI, but I suggest you try DV before spending money.

/Mats

[CP/M User]

"mats.hogberg" wrote:

> Don't know why Cornucopia mentions having a DV cam, as I have no
> problem exporting to DV from WMM, and I sure don't own a DV cam.
> Don't know the quality diff between picvideo and DV AVI, but I suggest
> you try DV before spending money.

Sorry folks, I should have made it clear on the inital post that I'm not using a Digital Video Camera as such, simply a Digital -Still- Camera in Movie Making mode. I seemed to have found the answer myself by taking the AVIs it creates - importing them into Windows Movie Maker, edit & produce a movie & save it as such. Then porting that file back into an AVI (as I described above) & making a SVCD out of it seems to have done the trick for my first movie. I'm just about to put another (much longer 17minute movie) through the same process. The only downside I found is when I translate the WMV file back into an AVI - the file size for this is over an one Gig! The quality is high though (hence the size), hopefully like the first one, it'll smoothly move over to the CD!

I think Cornucopia was suggesting that -if- I had a DV Camera I could try that. It puzzles me to know that you can export to DV from WMM, when you don't have a DV Camera - perhaps there's some compatability? I don't know a lot about this stuff though, so all I can really do is guess.

The method I found for my simple equipment though seems to work - better when I translate those WMV files to AVIs.

Cheers.

[mats.hogberg]

It puzzles me to know that you can export to DV from WMM, when you don't have a DV Camera

Oh, DV is just a video codec like all other, so there's no difference in principle between saving out as DivX or XviD or DV or MJPeg or...
The quality loss when exporting as DV is rather miniscule, so that's why I choose it. The big drop comes when encoding to mpg, and the better source the better the end result.

/Mats

[Cornucopia]

Sorry, No, No, and No.

Yes, I did mistakenly think you were talking about inputting from a DV camera ('cuz you said "digital camera"). All the rest that I said still goes though, and would be much preferable (quality-wise) to the way you're doing it now.

BTW, bringing an output BACK into WMM to give it a different output type is quite a no-no. You're compounding deterioration upon deterioration that way. ALWAYS save your "*.MSWMM" project files (and archive your source files) so you can go back and export from an original and minimize your loss.

WMM allows for a number of different types of source files to be used as input (AVI-with various codecs, WMV, still pictures, captured DV stream, etc), but it ONLY outputs 3 types--DVstream output to DVcamera, as DV-AVI (type1) file, and WindowsMedia file (in a variety of sizes and bitrates).

Since you don't have a DV camera, that leaves out the 1st option. 2 problems I see with going WMV--even the highest quality/bitrate choices. 1st, WMV is a type of MPEG4 and as such is throwing out a lot of information which, while your eyes may not see/notice it, another computer encoding application NEEDS some of that information and it's not there, thus worse quality. Particularly with the non-keyframes. This might also exacerbate problems with sync. 2nd, WMV is a proprietary filetype (M$) and is not prevalent as an available (or certainly preferable) source type in very many encoders--especially the good ones.
Your option of going to a WMV, even a high quality one, forces you to resort to the use of lesser known/lesser quality encoders when it really counts--going to SVCD-quality MPEG.

That's why I said "GO DV-AVI".

Compare these 2 output path scenarios:

• 1. PixSequence --> WMV @6.5Mbps --> AVI @??? --> MPG @2.5Mbps--> Author & burn
  
  2. PixSequence --> DV-AVI @25Mbps --> MPG @2.5Mbps --> Author & burn

#2 has less steps and less conversion cycles (with ensuing deterioration), plus it retains the highest quality until just before the very end (where it HAS to lose it).

BTW, I don't have a gripe against WMM, I just don't consider it much of a tool (v1 used to be just a toy). But if that's all you've got to work with, I understand. It can still get the job done, as long as you understand its limits.

HTH,
Scott

[mats.hogberg]

I just don't consider it much of a tool

So did I, until I just for the hell of it tried doing a "slide show" of my vacation stills. Besides the occational freeze/crash (save often!) it's actually pretty competent and with the ease of use you might expect for this kind of low end editor. And it exports as DV - lets me encode to whatever format I want later.

/Mats

[CP/M User]

Oh okay, I didn't realise DV was anohter Codec (there seems to be hundreds of them floating around).

I'll have a look into the DV codec. The one I'm using is reasonible though & is pretty much the Codec my Camera has been using - though if picture quality is maintained and compression is better, then definitely I'll use the DV Codec.

Personally myself, I've have no problems with WMM - maybe my machine being reasoinbly new has something to do with it. I'm using Version 5.1 of WMM - wouldn't that suggest it's come a long way since V1? Seriously though, I'm sure there's many programs out there, that might turn my movies into something Speilberg - I guess I could really be spending $1000s just to have a program which would do that, but I'm not really after that at all. WMM is free - I can take my AVIs quickly edit them & do a few little tricks & there they are ready to be viewed as a reference.

But I appreciate your comments & will have a look into the DV Codec.

Thanks.

P.S. Mats, I'm assuming you mean the Canopus DV Codec?

Thanks again.

[mats.hogberg]

Actually, don't know what codec I have (it's on my wifes laptop - obviously came with it preinstalled somehow, as she doesn't know what a codec is, much less how to install one, and I havent installed it!)! But I don't think it matters much which.

/Mats

[CP/M User]

"mats.hogberg" wrote:

> Actually, don't know what codec I have (it's on my wifes laptop -
> obviously came with it preinstalled somehow, as she doesn't know what
> a codec is, much less how to install one, and I havent installed it!)! But
> I don't think it matters much which.

I just tried the one I mentioned above, but I can't seem to do anything with it. I was a little concerned that it was written for 98 (I'm using XP), which might be the underlining issue. I just installed it - but I couldn't select it on my ConvertMovie program.

I'll just see what else is available.

[Cornucopia]

1st, you don't need to install ANY codecs. A Microsoft-brand DV directshow codec is already preinstalled as a core component with all Windows PC's. That's what it'll use when you select output=DV-AVI.

2nd, WMM is only up to version 2.1. It's not that far out of the cradle yet.

3rd, "ConvertMovie" is a weird program. Not too bad, but missing a number of the usual customization settings. Like (especially) 2pass VBR for MPEG. It's got VBR, but it's just 1pass, with no adjustment of min or max, just avg. Also, not much audio setting choices. I hope you didn't pay for this yet, you could do much better with a number of freeware tools listed here <--.

Scott

[CP/M User]

"Cornucopia" wrote:

> 1st, you don't need to install ANY codecs. A Microsoft-brand DV
> directshow codec is already preinstalled as a core component with all
> Windows PC's. That's what it'll use when you select output=DV-AVI.

How do I select DV-AVI though?

> 2nd, WMM is only up to version 2.1. It's not that far out of the cradle
> yet.

Okay, yes your correct. Don't know why it seize 5.1 on mine (makes mention it's on Service Pack 2) & 2.1.xxx.xx underneath.

> 3rd, "ConvertMovie" is a weird program. Not too bad, but missing a
> number of the usual customization settings. Like (especially) 2pass VBR
> for MPEG. It's got VBR, but it's just 1pass, with no adjustment of min or
> max, just avg. Also, not much audio setting choices. I hope you didn't
> pay for this yet, you could do much better with a number of freeware
> tools listed here <--

Yes - I can happily say I brought that program. At the time it was the only thing I could find which did what I wanted it to do. But now you say there's better Free alternatives. I've gone though that Tools section & found nothing which can turn a WMV back into an AVI - then into a MPEG based file. I'm guessing it's one of these - TMPGEnc, Mainconcept or CCE. <Nope obviously not since their Trialwarez as well>

Cheers.

[Cornucopia]

How do I select DV-AVI though?

...

Yes - I can happily say I brought that program. At the time it was the only thing I could find which did what I wanted it to do. But now you say there's better Free alternatives. I've gone though that Tools section & found nothing which can turn a WMV back into an AVI - then into a MPEG based file. I'm guessing it's one of these - TMPGEnc, Mainconcept or CCE. <Nope obviously not since their Trialwarez as well>

Cheers.

WMM:
1. [File | SaveMovieFile... | "My Computer" | Next]
2. Enter Name, Enter Path, [Next]
3. MOVIESETTING--"See More Choices" [OtherSettings | DV-AVI (NTSC) | Next]

That's it.

You ARTIFICIALLY created an additional requirement for your software choices that you didn't need--WMV support. If you had been going to DV-AVI (like I'm suggesting) your choices wouldn't be nearly as limiting.
Also, TMPGEnc is "trialware" only for the MPEG2 encoding portion, not for MPEG1 or for (WMV) input & export to AVI (which it can do, but people forget).
You could also concievably go WMV --> (TMPGEnc) AVI --> (Virtualdub & ffdshow) MPEG2. For free!

Scott

[CP/M User]

"Cornucopia" wrote:

> WMM:
> 1. [File | SaveMovieFile... | "My Computer" | Next]
> 2. Enter Name, Enter Path, [Next]
> 3. MOVIESETTING--"See More Choices" [OtherSettings | DV-AVI
> (NTSC) | Next]

> That's it.

Great thanks for that. Mine seize "DV-AVI (PAL)", but I guess it's the same thing! Produced a Huge 3.46Gb file (I guess that's the price you pay for attention to detail). Better invest in a new Hard Disk (I was think about getting one of those External Ones @ 300Gb) or would I be better off with an internal (it would just mean I can't take my HD to school!)

Same clogging up my D drive anyway (which is only 40Gb).

> You ARTIFICIALLY created an additional requirement for your software
> choices that you didn't need--WMV support. If you had been going to
> DV-AVI (like I'm suggesting) your choices wouldn't be nearly as limiting.
> Also, TMPGEnc is "trialware" only for the MPEG2 encoding portion, not
> for MPEG1 or for (WMV) input & export to AVI (which it can do, but
> people forget).

Oh okay, so this would have been the alternative to getting ConvertMovie?

> You could also concievably go WMV --> (TMPGEnc) AVI --> (Virtualdub
> & ffdshow) MPEG2. For free!

Okay. Now I was just wondening with this 3.46Gb I've picked up a Tutorial called AVI To DVD (S)Vcd with or without menu guide. The programs recommended in that tutorial are AVI2DVD, Gimp (for the Menu if one is required) & ImgBurn are these okay to use or is there better stuff out there which I could use? Or do you (or anyone else) know if this is fine to use?

Cheers.

[whitejremiah]

depending on how much video toying your intending on doing, a new harddrive may actually be a good idea....if you take a look at the computer details of a lot of people around here, most people have 200+gb of harddrive space, unfortunately even though the space is mostly just temperary space, it can occasionally take up a TON of space (depending on what your doing exactly, it can range all the way up to like 60gb per hour of video for temorary storage alone!!) if you're not intending to go very far with it, and mostly sourcing from stuff like wmv, downloaded avi, ect......you may not need much more harddrive space for that, but harddrive space is much like money...you can never have enough

[Cornucopia]

Great thanks for that. Mine seize "DV-AVI (PAL)", but I guess it's the same thing! Produced a Huge 3.46Gb file (I guess that's the price you pay for attention to detail). Better invest in a new Hard Disk (I was think about getting one of those External Ones @ 300Gb) or would I be better off with an internal (it would just mean I can't take my HD to school!)

Same clogging up my D drive anyway (which is only 40Gb).

.....

Oh okay, so this would have been the alternative to getting ConvertMovie?

.....

Okay. Now I was just wondening with this 3.46Gb I've picked up a Tutorial called AVI To DVD (S)Vcd with or without menu guide. The programs recommended in that tutorial are AVI2DVD, Gimp (for the Menu if one is required) & ImgBurn are these okay to use or is there better stuff out there which I could use? Or do you (or anyone else) know if this is fine to use?

Cheers.

Sorry, didn't notice that YES, you are a PAL user. So all the size settings would of course refer to 720x576 @ 25fps instead of 720x480 @29.97fps

Bigger Harddrive needed, yup!

Alternative to ConvertMovie, yup! If you don't particularly like their user interfaces, etc., you can always go back (no loss, since they're free!). You can get consistently good quality with those I mentioned.

Those other tools could be OK, I've used AVI2DVD before on occasion, the others I don't use because I don't need them (have Photoshop and couple of other good burning/authoring apps), but others here say they're good. Gimp seems to take a little getting used to.

Good luck!

Scott

[CP/M User]

So sorry to have come back - I'm still having problems with this movie.

I've tried numerous attempts to produce a movie - I've tried AVI2DVD, lowering the Resolution, the Bitrate - but still seem to come up with the same problem, where near the end of the film it becomes Jerky & the Sound pauses. I'm starting to wonder that that new computer I got last year isn't quite up to the task that I thought it was - or perhaps I need more memory (already have 512Mb - would I really need a Gb of Memory? It's only some movie I've lowered the resolution to VCD standard & still have the same problem - surely it must be something else). Perhaps it's the Celeron processor which isn't quite picking up all the pieces in time? They have Pentium 4s at School - would that do?!?

If it's the Bitrate which is the issue, then I'm puzzled how this can be changed in AVI2DVD - where it's at the processing stage where it tells you the Bitrate - it reports that numberous slowdowns had occured & that I should Increase my Resolution & Decrease my Bitrate - does that make sense? The movie was processed by the DV-AVI file into another supported AVI file - which was just as big (slightly bigger) - but the results seem to show around the same area of the film.

At best - on some attempt (in my Convertmovie program) I made I had about a sec of Delay - which was on the CVD resolution at 2419 I believe. I got it down though to 1955 bitrate in the same res & got a worse result (pretty sure this was what I had). SVCD format - I can only get the Bitrate in the same program downto 2070kbps - anything lower & it throws it out.

When I checked the Bitrate for the movies I've been making they have only been at 1140, though the resolution I've been recording it at is 640x480.

Any thoughts?

I thought it might be the computer - I find it odd that it's around the same portion of film where the trouble is & AVI2DVD & ConvertMovie seem to have a problem with it.

If anyone can help - that'd be great thanks.

[Cornucopia]

Well, you're still not going the route I suggested, but I won't comment on that.

Your PC may not be optimal, but it certain should affect the "quality" of the encode, just the speed of its encoding. Quality is determined by your bitrate/resolution settings, the type of content, certain quantization/GOP optimizations, and the encoding algorithms.

Why don't you give an example step-by-step of each app used, in order, with the source and resulting output file, with type & resolutions, and a test of playability.

Like this:

• 1. DVCam --> WinDV --> DV-AVI (type2): OK
  2. DV-AVI --> TMPGEnc (settings: xxxxx) --> MPEG2, 480x480@29.97fps, 2340kbps, OK
  3. MPEG2 --> VCDEasy (settings: SVCD, xxxx) ---> SVCD Bin/Cue Image
  4. Bin/Cue Image --> Nero --> Disc, "BAD!"

...or something like that.

Still sounds like you're going through too many steps, though.

Scott

[CP/M User]

"Cornucopia" wrote:

> Well, you're still not going the route I suggested, but I won't comment
> on that.

> Still sounds like you're going through too many steps, though.

Oh dear!!, Well it's like this:

1. Made a DV-AVI file using WMM

2. Installed the Panasonic DV Codec.

3. Used Convertmovie which used the above Codec to interpret it into a SVCD format. However,

3.1 Tried numerous formats : resolutions: CVD between 1955kbps & 2419kbps - think 2419kbps was the best result using CVD - but still jerky in some of the troubled spots

3.2 Bitrates:1150kbps - VCD - still problems!

3.3 Bitrates:between 2070 and 2419kbps - SVCD nope!

Conclusion - this program doesn't seem to take anything - occassionally the results seemed reduced, though I wonder if I try it a second time using the same configuration - the result will be the same or worse?

Possibilities - Could the file be too large to be processed, the file seems to be fine upto around the 13:30sec mark & then start jerky around & breaks of sound in the worst scenario. I wonder?

With the DV-AVI file (from WMM) - I also tried processing this with AVI2DVD to see if the results would be better.

1. AVI2DVD cannot directly process a DV-AVI file - it however, can be converted to an Ordinary AVI file - Which creates a file slightly larger than the original DV-AVI file - fine!

2. Followed the instructions from a Tutorial program found at this site & begin processing this file - to make a SVCD file.

3. Made approrate selection (DVD or SVCD - adjusted the media from DVD to CD-R 800Mb (80Min) even though my CD-R say 700Mb (80Min).

4. Followed program though - no subtitles files - so didn't add any, no menu - so skipped.

5. Add Job.

6. Hit Go - this after a while has this little great box, which say what the bitrate is (2309kbps I think it was), 2 pass encoding. After a while I noticed the program was collecting a series of errors - particularly towards the end of the file - slowdowns I think it said.

7. In the end it suggests either lowerning the Bitrate or Increase Resolution (wouldn't I want to say what the res & bitrate were before I process the actual file?).

8. Didn't try burning this to the CD - instead I play it back on Windows Media Player & again problems seemed to occur in the same place. The picture was breaking up (somehow & kinda jerky - didn't like it!)-:

---

Other things I've done - played back the original DV-AVI in Windows Media Player - I think the size of this file maybe the source of the problem. I've made a film of 3 different areas - which could perhaps be reduced to files on their own accord. Instead it's all one big file.

I had to disable the Panasonic DV-AVI codec cause I couldn't play my original AVis in Windows Media Player - which fixed this problem & have been able to play them.

I've still got the original AVIs made with the Camera - but now I've got this new problem where WMM has been corrupt somehow & doesn't want to work when I import these files. Any ideas how I can fix this? I've been sending bug reports - but there's no troubleshooting for this program!

This is becomming annoying if anything!

[CP/M User]

Just a quick note to myself that:

1. I've Disabled the Panasonic DV-AVI.

2. Fixed Windows Movie Maker -> Tools -> Options -> Compatability tab, the problem was actually 3rd Party software called AVI splitter from Avi2DVD - Disabled this and everything else there to do with Avi2DVD.

3. Installed TMPGEnc.

4. a) Shoterned massive movie (17minutes) into approx 5-7 minute blocks (each part of the film) using Windows Movie Maker.

b) Saved project & movie - created DV-AVI file

5. Used TMPGEnc - created MPEG-2 file.

6. Used NTI CD & DVD-Maker 7 to create SVCD.

7. Played movie in DVD-Player. Result: Good.