DVD Playback - Subtitles too low on the screen

[Hansomfiser]

I've got a new NEC DVD-burner whatever, and when I try to play some original DVD movies, it all works perfectly, except that the subtitles are a little too low. I mean, the second row is in the black border, which makes it impossible for me to see it when I have the movie playing through my TV-out to my widescreen TV, when I zoom in to fill the screen with 100% image.

I've tested VLC media player, WMP, BSPlayer and PowerDVD, but the subtitles second row is just a bit way down into the black border down there.

How can I fix this?

[guns1inger]

These will be fan-subbed anime ? or commercial DVDs ?

Fan-subbed anime films are not designed for conversion to DVD for viewing on a TV. They are subbed for playback on PCs only. The people who put the subtitles on them put them in the wrong place for TV playback, so the subtitles end up partially, or completely, in the overscan area of your TV. (Look up Overscan in the glossary of this site)

The only option you have is to re-encode (preferably from the originals), and to add a border as part of the resize process to make sure the subs remain visible. There are two simple ways to do this - one is to use tmpgenc, the other is to use FitCD to create an avisynth script with the correct reszing and borders, then use this to encode. If you search for overscan and anime you will find detailed posts on the solution.

[Hansomfiser]

Thanks, but no.

The whole Lord of The Rings trilogy is doing the same thing (they are all originals)

The Matix too, and some other real commercial DVD's. I believe it's a problem with my software , since the subs are a little below the actual picture, slinking into the black border down there.

[Hansomfiser]

This is how I mean - I want the moved up a little higher!

[Baldrick]

DVDSubedit

but they aren't too low...you zoom too much...

[Hansomfiser]

Thanks Bladrick, I'll test that program as soon as I come home from work.

But do I need to do that for every DVD movie I'm gonna watch? Isn't there some kind of general setting to make it work for all DVD's?

I have a widescreen 16:9 tv, and the subtitles look that way in my TV when zoomed out to crop the black borders (who wants them? why?), and also in my computer screen which is 4:3 and not zoomed in any way. I just don't want my subs in the black area, but within the picture - just like on the cinemas..

[guns1inger]

Exactly. The LOTR films are 2.35:1, so they have bars included in the image. If you are watching them at their full AR, you will see the subs. If you zoom in, all bets are off.

[Baldrick]

I haven't found any software that can move dvd subtitles while you play. I would like that also, and something that can resize dvd subtitles. Theatertek can resize some but it looks like crap.

[Hansomfiser]

It's all making sense to me now, regarding the aspect ratio..

But since I want to zoom anyway, I hope that the DVDSubEdit program Baldrick gave me will work good !

[Hansomfiser]

But I still have this question. Why oh why does half of the subs appear in the black border and the upper half within the actual picture? What's the purpose? I mean, it looks originally like this in the computer too, not zoomed or anything.

[guns1inger]

Because some of the black bars are part of the image. Because 2.35:1 is such a narrow aspect ratio, bars are added within the 720 x 480 frame to fill it out. Rather than cover image and move the subs higher than they would normally be, they have chosen to use some of this space. I suspect that if you compared the position of the subs to a film shot and presented in 1.85:1 or even 1.78:1, you would find they are in the same place. It is just that you don't zoom these ARs much, if at all. Personally, I don't understand the need to zoom in the first place.

[Hansomfiser]

Personally, I don't understand the need to zoom in the first place.

Because I want to get rid of the borders and make full use of my 28 inch widescreen television?

Besides, it's ugly as shit when the subs are half in half out of the black border as it is right now, I mean, there has to be something that I can do to fix this?!

[jeanl]

Hansomfiser,
DVDSubEdit can help you with that, but it's not a DVD playback program. It can modify your DVD so that when you play it with any regular player, the subtitles are exactly where you want them. It's very easy: Load the DVD, go to the first subtitle. Use the border slider: it will mark two red lines on the screen and it will move the subtitle so it falls within the horizontal band between the two lines. Then choose "Apply to all" in the Edit menu, and this will be done to all subpics in the DVD. Then save. This takes less than 1 minute.
But of course, this means you have to burn another copy of your DVD ... I wish DVD players could be adjusted for subtitle placement.
Jeanl

[Hansomfiser]

Jeanl

Thanks for your reply!

I see it's too much of a hassle to make it like that, I guess I'll just have to look at it unzoomed to get the right aspect ratio, with the black borders visible.


But my question is - are these commercial DVD's @ 2.35:1 format like this for everybody? I mean, the subtitle aligment. It should be in the picture if you had a 2.35:1 tv or projector or whatever, right?

[jeanl]

I don't know of a widescreen TV that has a physical 2.35 aspect ratio (that would be kind of cool though!). As far as I know, all the widescreen TVs have a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they can perfectly fit a 16:9 image sent by a DVD player. In that case, the only reasonable thing to do is to show the black bands. If you zoom on a TV like that, you will lose some of the sides, or you will distort the image. On a projector, there's no need to zoom, but I can see your point that it's somewhat annoying that the subs appear outside of the image...
jeanl

[Hansomfiser]

I don't know of a widescreen TV that has a physical 2.35 aspect ratio (that would be kind of cool though!). As far as I know, all the widescreen TVs have a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they can perfectly fit a 16:9 image sent by a DVD player. In that case, the only reasonable thing to do is to show the black bands. If you zoom on a TV like that, you will lose some of the sides, or you will distort the image. On a projector, there's no need to zoom, but I can see your point that it's somewhat annoying that the subs appear outside of the image...
jeanl

Alright,
but do you also have this "problem"? I just can't see the reason why the subs are half in half out of the image.

[jeanl]

Well, why not? Rather than obliterate part of the image, they put them partly in the black band. They probably can't make them all fit in the black band because of the "safe area" (most standard TVs overscan the picture so you lose some of the image)...
jeanl

[guns1inger]

I don't see it as a problem, but then I would rather watch 2.35:1 movies at 2.35:1, not 1.78:1

[jeanl]

I don't see it as a problem, but then I would rather watch 2.35:1 movies at 2.35:1, not 1.78:1

Tha'ts what happens on a 16:9 TV, thanks to the black bands...
Jeanl

[guns1inger]

It has nothing to do with black bands, it has to do with the fact that 16:9 is an arbitrary choice of aspect ratio, and film has a much wider range of aspect ratios. If they made TVs 2.35:1 instead, you would complain about the bands up the sides for 1.85 material.

[jeanl]

My point was:

I don't see it as a problem, but then I would rather watch 2.35:1 movies at 2.35:1, not 1.78:1

you never watch 2.35:1 movies at 1.78:1, unless you tweak your display. On a 16:9 TV, your 2.35:1 movie will show with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio... That's all I was saying. And I'm not complaining about black bands either!
jeanl

[guns1inger]

I was commenting on the original poster, who does appear to be zooming into watch them 1.78. I didn't mean it to appear I was having a go at you.

[jeanl]

Oh sorry! No problem anyway!
jeanl