video size and "forced film"

[SexMoron]

My sister came to me with a dvd-r that won't play on her dvd player. It plays fine on the computer. I thought I would rip it and re-encode the film using dvd2avi with tmpgenc. When I re-encoded I found the m2v file was about 5 and 1/3 gigabytes! I encode with an average bit rate of 5000 mbps and the largest rate is 6000mbps. So, whoever recorded this to dvd-r used an awfully low bit rate and I'm thinking that maybe this is why it won't play on a settop player but will play on a computer? Can anyone verify that?

So, I'm thinking maybe I can use dvd2avi to do a reverse telecine by using "force film" That will take it back to 24fps, right? And that might reduce the total file size enough to fit comfortably on a single layer disc. But then, how do I setup TMPGenc to create the m2v and audio track correctly so that the player does the pull down?

[FulciLives]

You are not making any sense.

A single layer DVD-R can only hold 4.7GB (or roughly 4.37GB depending on how you count).

So how could the DVD-R you ripped have a M2V video file of 5.33 GB unless unless it was Dual Layer!

You can't perform an IVTC without re-encoding. Even then the bitrate you pick is still based on the running time of the movie which is the same be the FPS at 23.976fps or at 29.970fps ... the only difference is that 23.976fps will look better at the same bitrate since there are fewer frames to encode.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[guns1inger]

I have a couple of discs that have been encoded into the low 3000's and playback without any problems. I know some here regularly encode at lower than that and don't have playback problems. Lower bitrate generally won't cause playback problems, although having a bitrate that is above spec will.

What is the running time of the movie in question ?

[FulciLives]

I see now that I mis-read the original post. Shame on me

However I still don't understand what exactly is being asked ...

It appears that you re-encoded the original but ended up with a file that was too large so you obviously didn't pick a correct bitrate. So you need guide on how to select your bitrate.

Then you said that you want to FORCE FILM or IVTC the original ... that's great IF it is possible. Please realize that this cannot be done with all NTSC videos.

Also as I said the running time for NTSC is unchanged despite the frames per second.

A movie can be 90 minutes long and be 23.976fps or it can be 90 minutes long and be 29.970fps ... either way you have to base your bitrate on the running time of 90 minutes regardless of the frames per second.

One benefit of doing a FORCE FILM or IVTC is that a 90 minute movie at 23.976fps with a 5000kbps video bitrate will look better than a 90 minute movie at 29.970fps with a 5000kbps video bitrate but in the end the file size will be the same either way.

Find out the bitrate of the audio and then tell us the running time of the video and I or guns1inger or whomever comes along can tell you what video bitrate you should use so that you can fit the video and audio on a single layer DVD disc.

Also I recently wrote up a mini-guide of sorts on using a bitrate calculator so you might want to read that ... here is the link ---> CLICK HERE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

Can anyone verify that?

I can verify you're talking nonsense.

That will take it back to 24fps,

Yes, but that may or may not be the correct thing to do. Force Film will work if it was encoded as 24fps progressive originally. It'll just make a mess of things if it's from an interlaced source or was encoded as already telcined film at 29.97fps interlaced. And as FulciLives mentioned, the bitrate will be the same whether you encode it as 23.976fps with pulldown, or encode it as 29.97fps interlaced.

And that might reduce the total file size enough to fit comfortably on a single layer disc.

Not if the bitrate remains the same.

[SexMoron]

The runtime of this film is 112 minutes.

I suppose I should have first analyzed the original bit rate that was used. I suppose I'll have to re-encode the thing. I know how to use a bit-rate calculator. And of course, everybody is right about the length of the movie being the determinant, not the fps. I will have to stick with the 29.97 frame rate.

But I have to go back to the original problem then of why this disc will not play in the dvd player. I don't have a problem with other dvd-r films. And this disc does load: You get a main menu screen and two chapter screens, but you cannot get the film to play from any of the screens.

Is there anyway to analyze a disc to determine why it won't play?

[Nelson37]

Why do you assume it will not play? In fact, it does, in a PC. Playback failure has apparently only been observed on ONE standalone player.
There may be absolutely nothing wrong with the disk or the player, just a compatibility issue.

[SexMoron]

I said "dvd player". If I meant the dvd-rom on my computer, I would have stated that. I'm talking about this not playing in a settop dvd-player.

As for compatibility, I think if were just that it wouldn't load at all. But it DOES load. I get the menu and chapter screens. So, it loads and I can navigate. But I cannot get the film to play.

[Nelson37]

On HOW MANY players has this disk been tested?

"DVD player" is not specific. "Standalone" or "Settop" designates a non-PC form of playback.

What was the source of the original video, and what was the origin of the actual disk itself?

What are the properties of the video on the original disk? Framerate, resolution, audio properties, etc.

What brand is the original disk?

[SexMoron]

Oh, I see. Before you were quite willing to write it all off a simply a "compatibility" issue. Now you want to know everything under the sun about it.

Just what are you going to do with all that information?

If you read the entire thread I already made the distinction between this not playing on a settop and playing fine on a PC.

Sorry, I don't think you can really help much and I'm not going to waste my time with you. Most of those questions have either already been answered or are completely irrelevant. (IE: what the hell does the brand name of the original disc matter? I transferred the files onto the computer. I also made copies of the original disc onto other discs, which did the exact same thing).

[Nelson37]

Good Luck.

Many players will not play specific brands of disk. Number of players tested and brand of disks used is necessary information to determine if this is indeed the issue.

Since you do not wish to take the time to answer necessary questions, I am done here. Go IVTC the damn thing since you think that would be such a good idea.

[guns1inger]

112 minutes requires around 5212 - 5244 kbps video, depending on the bitrate required for audio (assuming 2 channel AC3 at 192 or 224 kbps). Commercial discs are available that have similar specs - my version of Sam Pekinpah's The Killer Elite runs 118 minutes and is a DVD5 (cheap bastards).

You have only stated that it fails on a single DVD player, so the questions regarding compatability are valid. If you haven't tried it on other players, it is worth doing. If it fails, you know it is a problem with the authoring of the disc. If it works, there is more to look into.

Another simple experiment is to rip it with DVD Decrypter (not because it is encrypted, but because it is still the most reliable ripper around), then do a movie only disc with DVD Shrink in re-author mode. If it plays back, the structure of the disc is probably the problem.