Good hdtv pci capture card in the $100 - $150 range??

[yoda313]

I've been looking into getting a hdtv capture card to replace my hauppauge wintv pvr 250. I'd like to get the same features but include hdtv recording.

I've seen and liked the specs on the ATI HDTV WONDER but it requires a ati 9500 or newer and I only have pci so thats a no go (I have a 9250).

I only have 3 pci slots and my fax/modem and video card take up the other two. So this would be a replacement option for my wintv. Meaning I'd like it to have analog inputs for my vhs tapes.

Suggestions would be welcome. I've been checking out online stores and the like but haven't really found anything appealing. I've seen a fuji one for around $100 but it was software encoding.

By the way I have a celeron 2.66ghz with 512mb ram so I can pretty much run anything out there. (only 80gb harddrive though... may have to try to upgrade that eventually)

Any help would be appreciated (US by the way )

[redwudz]

This is the one I use for OTA HDTV. http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=FUSION-HDTV5-GOLD&PHPSESSID=c11eeee1...915ad8d5a1f1e9

They have other HDTV units on their site.

I use a ATI 9550 Radeon video card and a ATI DVI to Component adapter to feed my video projector with the output.

[yoda313]

Thanks redwudz for the suggestion.

But whats this about:

Full SW solution with minimum HW support

So is that software encoding then??? Does that take more processor power??? Does that reduce the output quality? I'm only used to hardware encoders like my wintv pvr250.

Thanks for the suggestion though I'll look into it and others like it.

[leebo]

Yes, software playback. It uses your cpu so if you dont have a fast system, could be less than perfect.

Look up the MYHD 120 which uses hardware decoding. It's last years model so you might find it for a good price. Only does over the air though, not cable. The MYHD 130 does cable, but it's about $250.

[yoda313]

Yes, software playback. It uses your cpu so if you dont have a fast system, could be less than perfect.

Look up the MYHD 120 which uses hardware decoding. It's last years model so you might find it for a good price. Only does over the air though, not cable. The MYHD 130 does cable, but it's about $250.

Thanks I'll check it out.

[yoda313]

What about something like this:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1538003&sku=F33-1000

Watch Digital (ATSC) and Analog (NTSC) TV on your PC
Support HDTV programs
Resolution up to 1080i
16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratio
Channel auto scan
Multi channel preview
MPEG-II AV Format, Software Decoding
EPG (Electronic Program Guide)
PVR Record DTV to your PC’s disk
Time- Shifting
Still Frame Capture
Closed Caption
Cable TV input
S-video input
Remote Controller
Easy friendly installation

FujiPlus FD-3250 ATSC/NTSC PCI Tuner Card.


It would replace my wintv pvr 250 rather nicely. I couldn't easily find the myhd 120 - I think all ebay really has are the ati hdtv wonder that I can't use (not a strong enough video card).

Whats the real difference between software and hardware capturing? What would I notice while watching the recording and doing other tasks??? Would that result in dropped frames? ( I do have a 2.66ghz and 512mb ram).

[redwudz]

I did a little research. That card is not associated with the Fuji corporation. It's apparently made by a Taiwan company. http://www.minmaw.com/tvcard.htm

May be no problem, but I can't seem to find much in the way of reviews of it.

[yoda313]

I did a little research. That card is not associated with the Fuji corporation. It's apparently made by a Taiwan company. http://www.minmaw.com/tvcard.htm

May be no problem, but I can't seem to find much in the way of reviews of it.

Ok thanks.


I was wondering about the difference between hardware and software capturing hdtv cards. How much of a difference in cpu usage is there? Also can software hdtv cards still capture in mpeg???

[edDV]

Also can software hdtv cards still capture in mpeg???

They usually capture the 19 Mbps multiplexed MPeg2 TS stream that can include a mix of HD only, HD+SD, or up to 5 SD channels.

Use utilities like HDTVtoMPEG2 to split out the video and audio streams you want.

[yoda313]

Also can software hdtv cards still capture in mpeg???

They usually capture the 19 Mbps multiplexed MPeg2 TS stream that can include a mix of HD only, HD+SD, or up to 5 SD channels.

Use utilities like HDTVtoMPEG2 to split out the video and audio streams you want.

Thanks eddv. Than I won't limit my search to hardware only encoding cards

[nebula8]

If you have digital cable, check with your cable company and see if they rent DVRs (Digital vido recorders).
In particular a Motorolla DCT6412. I have one, and although the documentation states the firewire connections on the back are 'disabled, and for future use', one of them works and transport streams can be captured. You can capture in sd, hd (1080i, 720p), etc.
So far the only things I haven't been able to cap are 'on demand' shows.
The .ts streams can be played on your computer, but for HD you need something newer (my 2ghz can't keep up), but they can be converted.

I wouldn't call the cable company and say you want one to capture with though. They would probably not aprove of it.

[edDV]

The cable companies are required to pass the TS streams for the local rebroadcasts in the USA. When I first got the Comcast 6xxx box all channels were coming through as single TS streams per channel tuned. While I was away for a few days they downloaded firmware to the box that stopped the TS streams from all but the locals. In this market, all the locals except one feed their DTV signals to Comcast by fiber. Comcast plays the SD DTV channels at 15Mb/s and the HD channels at 20 or 25Mbps. All are 1080i except ABC and FOX that come in at 720p*. This may or may not result in higher quality than OTA but it does consume alot more disk space. HD Mpeg TS files can be played back OK with the VLC player on my 2.4 GHz Celerons and Pentiums.

*I'm a huge fan of 720p. For 1080i playback on the computer, you need to set VLC to deinterlace on the fly.

[leebo]

But my understanding is that you only have to worry about PLAYBACK. Your computer doesn't ENCODE the HD stream it's recording, but it does have to DECODE the stream (unless your tuner card has hardware decoding).

So you may be able to record but not play back.

[Soopafresh]

I'm a happy owner of the MDP120. I'm sure you can get one from Digital Connection for $150. The newer MDP130 model is discounted at $199.
You'll have to call or e-mail them, but I'll bet they still have a few.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/mdp120.asp

Extremely stable card and software, plus loads of support in the AVSForum threads.

CPU utilization is 20% while capturing HD Transport Streams

Lemme know if you want to see a short sample of captured material.

[edDV]

But my understanding is that you only have to worry about PLAYBACK. Your computer doesn't ENCODE the HD stream it's recording, but it does have to DECODE the stream (unless your tuner card has hardware decoding).

So you may be able to record but not play back.

The latest generation of display cards are adding hardware support for MPeg2 and Mpeg4 decoding including transport streams. The playback software must access the hardware decoding functions using DirectX calls.

HDTV MPeg2 TS streams lightly load my computer. As a test I was able to capture (transfer) the HD stream over IEEE-1394 and encode a separate full DVD MPeg2 with my ATI AIW card without fully loading a 2.4 GHz P4. The key point is I wasn't viewing the HDTV from the computer during the transfer. I was viewing on the HDTV monitor connected to the cable box.

HD TS playback using VLC pegs the 2.4 P4 to 100% but it plays OK.

[yoda313]

Thanks for the input guys (and gals??).

I don't have cable so this would strictly be for over-the-air programming.

And I only have one pci slot available for swapping out my wintv pvr250.

So it looks like I'll be able to pick something up in the range I'm looking at. This will probably be during the holidays.

Thanks again for all the contributions of knowledge

[edDV]

Wanna sell me that PVR-250?

[yoda313]

Wanna sell me that PVR-250?

Only after I actually get the new card and it I get it WORKING

[edDV]

I figure I can have the ATI AIW and PVR-250 independently caputung on the same machine no problem.

[yoda313]

Hi,

There's a computer show in town this weekend. I'll be browsing for cheap harddrives and blank dvds. Though I've never bought hardware at a computer show.

If I were to find a sub $100 hdtv card would it be worth the gamble??? If its a name card would it be likely to be legitimate and not a piece of junk???

Personally if I do see something I don't think I'd be willing to spend more than $50 on hardware at a convention.

If you have personal stories about computer shows that you feel would benefit me and others here please share them.

[edDV]

RE: computer shows or ebay for that matter

Know everything about the device before you bid and get return rights if it is DOA.

Biggest killer is usually some cable or software key that costs a small fortune to replace.

I'd never buy a hard drive at a computer show. It probably came from hard use on a server or from a junked computer. Last "black Friday" I got 3 new 200GB drives for $30each after rebate. Why risk used drives?

HDTV tuners are fairly new and the first generation models each had issues. Again research everything about the product in the forums (google) before you bid and make sure all the parts are there.

[hudsonf]

I have bought several computers and a lot of hardware from computer shows. I only had one computer go bad on me which was replaced with no problem. Two things I always do.
1. Always check out all the vendors before buying.
2. If a major purchase I only buy from vendors that are within driving distance and will let me return or replace it if the item doesn't work.

[yoda313]

Thanks eddv and hudsonf.

Yeah I'll probably take a real good look at the item before I consider it. They're open for six hours so I can research something if it looks really good.

I appreciate the advice

[yoda313]

Hi,

Well no hdtv cards at the computer show yesterday. I wasn't too suprised about that.

Anyway I'm trying to narrow down my choices.

I'm currently bidding on this card on ebay:

Avermedia MCE A180 HDTV Tuner Card PCI

I'm sure I'll be outbid because I'm only a little aways from my max bid. It is a mce card but it has software for non mce xp computers like mine. The only scary thing is it says it needs an analog tuner to work properly. I can get rid of my fax/modem card but I'd have to buy a usb fax/modem because I still do faxing regularly. Those are fortunately really cheap on ebay so thats not an issue (I'm on dsl now so I'd only be using if for the occasional fax so the cpu load is no big deal since it will be essentially off 90% of the time).

But here's one I think I'm leaning towards:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/fusion3qt.asp

The fusion 3. Its an older model I know but it seems to meet my needs and its a slim pci card so no problems with head room. Also it has a svideo input so I can still dub analog which I want to do (so I can swap out my wintv pvr250).

I think the fusion 3 looks really good and it seems I can get it for around a $100 which is my target.

I won't be buying for a few weeks so I'm not 100% commited (unless I somehow win my ebay bid that is ).

Thanks for all the help.

[edDV]

1
I think the fusion 3 looks really good and it seems I can get it for around a $100 which is my target.

I won't be buying for a few weeks so I'm not 100% commited (unless I somehow win my ebay bid that is ).

That site is showing a new one for $109. Why not buy new? It's probably returnable if you can't make it work.

[yoda313]

Thats what I'm planning on doing when my ebay bid is outbid.

Though again like I said it will be a few weeks before I buy but I'll save that link

Thanks.

[Turtleggjp]

How about this one instead:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/fusion5lt.asp

It's tuner is one generation above the Fusion 3, and it's $100 even. That is the one I bought, but be warned. It is a software decoding card, so you will need a nice DirectX9 capable video card to playback the HDTV content in realtime. However, since it does just dump the HDTV transport stream to your HDD during recording, that should not require a lot of CPU power (or video card power for that matter). In fact, with its scheduler it can run in 'silent' mode where it doesn't display the video, only records it. Also, I had a really hard time getting the software to work with stability on my system. That could be just me, or it could be lousy software on their part.

Matt

[yoda313]

Thanks turtleggjp. I had looked at that but my intention is to replace my wintv pvr250 and the fusion 3 has an svideo input for analog recording. The fusion 5 lite has only rf. I know I could output my vcr though the rf but I'm more comfortable using rca cables (plus using my analog camcorder for capturing would be nice).

I think I'll stick with the fusion 3 and buy it after the holidays.

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions

[yoda313]

Ok I'm going to let my ebay bid go since I've been outbid for the avermedia card.

One or two more questions about the fusion3 model I'm going to purchase in a week or two:

This is the info I'm using:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Support/cn_fusion_1.asp

Q. How much hard disk space is required to record HDTV?
A. ATSC signals require 8.7GB per hour.

Q. Can I record analog TV?
A. No.



http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/fusion3qt.asp

So for a two hour movie I should plan on having close to 20gb free????? What about conversion to dvd???? For two hours should I plan on freeing up 30 gb so I can spit out the dvd mpeg????

Also - That bit about not being able to record analog tv. So does that mean that the fusion hdtv card can only record ota hdtv??? I mean its not that big of a deal since I can still record standard tv via vcr and dub it later but thats a bit of a pain.

Other than that I think I'll be happy with the fusion 3. I did see that theres a fusion 5 hdtv usb box. But I think its not worth the extra $50 since I already have a 5.1 surround usb soundcard hooked up. I wouldn't want to overload my usb bus with too much info. The pci card would be suitable to replace my wintv pvr250 (since it does have a analog input adapter).

Thanks all for the help.

[junkmalle]

I don't own any HDTV capture cards but here's the way I understand it:

So for a two hour movie I should plan on having close to 20gb free????? What about conversion to dvd???? For two hours should I plan on freeing up 30 gb so I can spit out the dvd mpeg????

Yes.

Also - That bit about not being able to record analog tv. So does that mean that the fusion hdtv card can only record ota hdtv???

It can also record clear (unencrypted) cable QAM 256 HDTV. Both of those are recieved as MPEG streams. The card is just saving the digital data. It has no ability to digitize analog video.

I mean its not that big of a deal since I can still record standard tv via vcr and dub it later but thats a bit of a pain.

dub it later? Are you talking about copying the tape (VCR to VCR)? Or do you plan to have a second card for analog to digital conversion?

Other than that I think I'll be happy with the fusion 3. I did see that theres a fusion 5 hdtv usb box. But I think its not worth the extra $50 since I already have a 5.1 surround usb soundcard hooked up. I wouldn't want to overload my usb bus with too much info. The pci card would be suitable to replace my wintv pvr250 (since it does have a analog input adapter).

The FusionHDTV5 USB Gold can capture analog video as MPEG2/4.

You might find this comparison of HDTV cards useful:

http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2634