704*480 KVCD, need little help

[MasterMan194]

Hi, i found about KVCDs and did some sucessfuly, but two days ago i tryed to make a KVCD using the 704*480 NTSC 90min average TMPGenc template (KVCDx2-CQ-704x576-_PAL_-PLUS.mcf) from http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html
I'm impressed with the picuture quality on my DVD player, it's smooth and clear for a KVCD.
But i've found a single sound desync point in the 98min movie.
It changes back to normal just by stoping and restartting from the exact point.
This only happens in the standalone DVD player, but not in PC, MPClassic, BSPlayer or WMP10.

I use the VirtualDub's frameserer and TMPGenc encoding and Nero burning rom.

In another movie, i did the same, just changing the quality to 50 in TMPGenc to acommodate a 101min movie. (Setting > Rate controll mode: CQ > Quality: 50).
The result was also a good picture quality and a single desync point.

I'm wondering my DVD player can't handdle a 704*480 resolution too well.
So i'm thinking if i can just load the template and change the resolution to 640*436 (640*480 /704).
The first movie original resolution was 608*456 (608*236 with letterbox and subtitles), can i keep the 608 width and a matching 4/3 height?

So, it's my first post here and it may sound confusing, please try to give me directions and ask for better explanations.

Thanks.

[Nelson37]

Resolution MUST remain DVD standard, and should not affect audio synch.

Interesting symptom, the non-standard nature of KVCD renders most repair methods probably non-feasable.

I found synch issues with SVCD were solved by muxing with bbmpeg and imaging with VCDImager, burning prog did not seem to matter.

[MasterMan194]

So how to use the TMPGenc KVCD .mcf templates in this bbmpg?

EDIT:
Ok, avi2mpeg2.exe couldn't open my VirtualDub frameserver file "video.avi"

[wulf109]

Copy the KVCD template to TMPEG's template directory. If your source is a 720x480 DVD you should use 720x480 not 704x480. Using any rsolution other than the input will cause TMPEG to re-size pixels and slow down encodeing.

[MasterMan194]

Copy the KVCD template to TMPEG's template directory. If your source is a 720x480 DVD you should use 720x480 not 704x480. Using any rsolution other than the input will cause TMPEG to re-size pixels and slow down encodeing.

I'm wondering my DVD player can't handdle a 704*480 resolution too well.
So i'm thinking if i can just load the template and change the resolution to 640*436 (640*480 /704).
The first movie original resolution was 608*456 (608*236 with letterbox and subtitles), can i keep the 608 width and a matching 4/3 height?

Are you saying i can realy use 608*456 in the original 608*456 source?

I'll exemplify.
I have a 640*256 AVI 99m35s long, 23,976fps.
I open it in VirtualDub, save a 44100Hz wav from it.
Add a resize filter of 640*256 and 640*480 black borders.
Add TextSub filter for subtitleing.
File > start frameserver, save the "video.avi" 1KB file.

Launch TMPGenc, and open the "video.avi" as video source. The previously saved WAV as audio source.
Load "KVCDx2-CQ-704x576-_PAL_-PLUS.mcf" template.
Click "Settings" and change the size boxes to 640*480 (they where 704*480). In "Rate control mode", in CQ, i click settings and move the "quality" slide to 50 (it was as 60).
Close these settings. In the main window, "stream type were as "ES (video only)" i change it to "System (video+audio)".
Encode the mpeg and burn it in Nero as a Video CD, non standard.

This is the method i ever follow, the VCDs i did before were good, KVCDs 352*480 also.
Only these 704*480 ones are troblesome. I want to use the just because the picture quality in 1 80min CD-R.

So any more ideas?

[MasterMan194]

No one?

[Nelson37]

Didn't see the CD mention in first post, was thinking KDVD.

The "K" makes it non-standard to start, adding in a non-standard resolution is asking for trouble.

It does play, with the audio glitch. The problem is, using wierdo formats can cause wierdo problems.

Why resize in Vdub, then again in Tmpgenc? Do it once, get it right the first time. Resolution will have to be one of the acceptable ones in the final output file. 704 or 720x480, 352x480, 352x240. My suggestion would be to use the Center option in TMPgenc, with full D1 or resize and border to 352x480 in Vdub and frameserve that. Your current method is either resizing or adding borders in both progs, depending on the options specified in TMPgenc. This is wasteful.

I would do a standard CVD, ditch the "K" crap. Eliminate the Subs. Encode with Tmpgenc. Test. If OK, add complicating factors one at a time. If not OK, at least you have eliminated a lot on non-standard issues and are on ground that will be familiar to many here.

Also just noticed you are using a PAL template with an NTSC-Film source file. Are you, like, into pain or what?

Back to the original issue, res used unlikely to cause single point audio desynch. For a Standard Vcd, Svcd, or Cvd, I would create elementary streams in Tmpgenc, mux them with BBmpeg, Image this file with VCDImager, and burn. I have no idea if this procedure will work with something as oddball and non-standard as the xKVCD you are currently creating.

[MasterMan194]

Why resize in Vdub, then again in Tmpgenc? Do it once, get it right the first time.

See it:


Second image is how i do it. If the movie is 640*272, i add resize to 640*272 and expand to 640*480, add subtitles after resizing. I'm brazilian, i need subs :P

I don't resize in TMPGenc, the template itself does it, see? I input a 640*480 source, but it resizes to 704*480.

My only trouble is when i get the desync, see that it's a DVD player hardware issue as it don't happens when i see the KVCD in PC.

What do you think i can change (besides resolution) for the KVCD plays smoother? In the 2nd trial, i decrease the CQ quality from 60 to 50. Still get little desync.

By "desync", i mean i'm watching the movie, in a certain point, the actor's voice gets wrong with the movements. I fix it by pressing "stop" and "play" (my player remembers the point i stoped the playback).

I think the settings are too heavy to my cheap player. So, what setting can i decrease for the KVCD?

Sorry for the insistence, i realy realy want to do KVCDs +90min per 80min discs... The 704*480 res give a perfect clean picture

[jimmalenko]

Maybe the KCD forums http://kvcd.net/forum might assist ?

[Nelson37]

Yes, you are resizing in TMPgenc, the template is simply an instruction to the prog on how to resize. Since you must resize in Vdub for sub room, why not add the borders all the way to 704x480? Do it all in one shot.

Next issue is that res is VERY out-of-spec for VCD. K or no K.

The K issue introduces so many out-of-spec issues that it muddies the water on everything else. Few here bother with it, meaning that of the very few left with much VCD experience, maybe 2-5% have much experience with the K variant. Then you need one of those 2 or 3 people that have had a similar audio problem.

Like, check the compatibility lists for reports on KVCD, and attempt to decide from those limited numbers whether your particular player supports them at all, and now try to determine if it supports the particular variety you are doing.

Let me underline it for you. I know NOTHING about KVCD. If you insist on making one, I can not offer you any further assistance whatsoever. There are very few who can. It's like driving a 1947 Peugot. Good luck to you.

Other analysis - If lowering CQ from 60 to 50 minimized the desynch (you do not specifically say so), then lower it some more. Could well be a bitrate spike causing the issue. I would not call this behavior a fault of the hardware. That it plays at all is a bonus, these things are not supposed to work, that's why they are called NON-Standard.

[offline]

KVCD templates are not supported here at VH. As Jimmy said, try http://kvcd.net/forum