HDTV and DVD2ONE DVD's ... poor quality

[goat]

Playing compressed DVD's on my new plasma HDTV kinda sucks. You really can see the quality difference from the original DVD. So if anyone is planning on getting a HDTV .... maybe think twice. It looks like I'll be backing up DVD's onto 2 discs until the dual layers come down in price.

[the future]

Imagine how bad those compressed DVD2ONE movies will look blown up by a front projector...

[Frobozz]

Or just don't play the backup on your HD set. Play the original DVD.

[terryj]

hmmm...maybe he can't?

[Frobozz]

hmmm...maybe he can't?

I thought of that, too, but I'm going to presume that goat isn't so tacky as to complain on line about the quality of something he's stolen. And if goat can afford an HDTV and DVD2OneX he certainly can afford to buy his DVDs.

But this does get me on my soapbox. If quality is so important and for some reason one must have a backup of their commercial DVD (I know, the kids destroy the originals) then just go to the local DVD rental store and buy a used copy. It certainly will be more durable than any burned disc and there's no need for all the hassle with ripping, compressing and burning.

It just seems so some much easier to buy one. And if buying two copies seems silly then isn't backing up the DVD almost as silly?

Maybe others can help me understand this great interest in backing up DVDs; unless, of course, the issue is to avoid paying for the movie in the first place.

[AntnyMD]

Hear here.

[terryj]

And if goat can afford an HDTV and DVD2OneX he certainly can afford to buy his DVDs.

But this does get me on my soapbox. If quality is so important and for some reason one must have a backup of their commercial DVD (I know, the kids destroy the originals) then just go to the local DVD rental store and buy a used copy. It certainly will be more durable than any burned disc and there's no need for all the hassle with ripping, compressing and burning.

It just seems so some much easier to buy one. And if buying two copies seems silly then isn't backing up the DVD almost as silly?

When I had a job as a teen at an automated car wash, i used to hate
fridays. Friday was the day of the week when the businessmen and
lawyers would bring their cars in to be washed, & while it was $8 to
wash their mercedes and jaguars and lincolns, they would often
complain because we would charge them an extra 50¢ to vaccum it.
Many thought it should be free, but when we would explain the logistics
of labor and cost of operating the car wash, they would sputter and
huff and choose not to pay for it, even though the cost was, in the
bigger picture, neglible.

If you can afford a jag, and you can afford $8 to wash it, what's 50¢ more?
If you can afford an HDTV, and HD Cable, and a SINGLE DVD, why
can't you afford the cost of another disc, of something you want
to avoid getting scratched, even by PVT or Used?

I buy all of my Movie DVD used or PVT. I avoid Wal-mart/Target/BB new Tuesday.
Often (esp Holiday time) you get better deals at cockBlock Buster
or Hollyweird ( 3 for $25, 2 for $12, all dvds $5, 4 for $33, etc)
then you can at Walmart $15 on new release day.
Yes, you do occassionaly get heavy rented discs, but they exchange if
you get a bad one.
My tv show sets I make myself from either my VHS recordings
(Sopranos, Forever Knight, Pretender), and Digital Cable recordings
( Alias, Lost, Threshold). I watch the sales and take advantage of them
to buy sets i'm interested in ( Grand Opening Target sale season sets
$18, Buy.com 15% off $50 or more) or just buy sets to let the studios
know that they should release more in the series
( BTAS, STAS, L&C, Monk).

My whole point of this is:
We all choose to spend our dollars/time wisely;
and with a little forethought we can choose to spend
them ALOT wiser and avoid having to resort to piracy.

and on a personal note: I hope the studios are looking VERY CLOSE
at ITMS. If they are, and do decide to go the route of pay per episode,
I'd ditch Cable once FOX, CBS, NBC, FX, SPIKE, and CN signed up
with Apple.

[Frobozz]

When I had a job as a teen at an automated car wash, i used to hate fridays. Friday was the day of the week when the businessmen and lawyers would bring their cars in to be washed, & while it was $8 to wash their mercedes and jaguars and lincolns, they would often complain because we would charge them an extra 50¢ to vaccum it. Many thought it should be free, but when we would explain the logistics of labor and cost of operating the car wash, they would sputter and huff and choose not to pay for it, even though the cost was, in the bigger picture, neglible.

The condescending cheapness of the financially well-to-do does serve as a motivator to rip them off when it won't land one in jail. We reap what we sow.

Thanks for adding your thoughts about this, terryj.

[goat]

WOW !!!!

Easy guys .... Yes I have the original DVD's. But when you have a 2 1/2 year old that gets into everything and thinks they make great frisbees, well you get the picture.

Sure you can buy a back up disc, but I have gone through at least 6 Finding Nemo's ..... & yes the movie is great but i think paying Pixar over $120 is a little excessive

I was just making a point about the compression. And actually the originals are not as sharp as one would think. I guess when the Blue Ray discs hit the market that is when my TV will shine.

[Frobozz]

Glad you set me straight, goat. Sorry for using your post to champion my campaign against the Netflix ripper crowd. My grandson also is 2-1/2 and I know how he likes to play with the discs.

Incidentally, I've read that the animation discs seem to display the worst on the HDTVs. If you have some film movies that you've compressed with DVD2One do they look equally as bad?

[terryj]

yes, do you have say the Superbit versions of T2
or Superbit Underworld, Bad Boys 2 or Spider-Man 2?
How do they play, as they are supposed to be the top
ecelon of what's out now?

[AntnyMD]

I have the Superbit version of Spider-Man 2 and it looks awesome on HDTV. Everything in the Criterion Collection is encoded with amazing clarity as well. I stopped renting so much from Netflix after I subscribed to hi-def HBO/Showtime etc. The only real advantages to DVD are (a) owning a copy of a movie with extras, and (b) original aspect ratio. Many of the newer films are zoomed in to 16:9 for pay cable, unlike their DVD OAR versions.

[the future]

But this does get me on my soapbox. If quality is so important and for some reason one must have a backup of their commercial DVD (I know, the kids destroy the originals) then just go to the local DVD rental store and buy a used copy. It certainly will be more durable than any burned disc and there's no need for all the hassle with ripping, compressing and burning.

If you can afford an HDTV, and HD Cable, and a SINGLE DVD, why can't you afford the cost of another disc, of something you want to avoid getting scratched, even by PVT or Used?

You have a point there, of course, but I have another idea: why not ask the Hollywood Studios to spend a few cents more in manufacturing and apply a hardcoat onto DVDs that makes them completely scratch-resistant (TDK's Durabis for example)? The tech is there, but they are too cheap/greedy to use it.

[edDV]

I was just making a point about the compression. And actually the originals are not as sharp as one would think. I guess when the Blue Ray discs hit the market that is when my TV will shine.

I think the problem is more resolution than compression. A typical 720x480/576-24p progressive DVD (59.94fps or 100fps Euro) plays without serious compression artifacts. You may be seeing upscaling errors internal to your HDTV.

What native resolution HDTV did you get? 720x480 kinda sucks when you see a 1280x720p mastered broadcast and when displays get better, 1920x1080p HD DVD will make 720p and 1080i look primitive.

[goat]

I bought a LG 50PX5D
1366 x 768 resolution

What is weird is that some original DVD look kind of distorted ....
Lords Of Dogtown & War of the Worlds. I dont' know if its an effect the studios were looking for or not but you see movement in background elements (stationary walls ... buildings.. etc.). The Bourne Identity looks good except for the scenes with water (ocean). The water looks very pixalated. My DVD player will up-convert DVD's through the HDMI cable. I'll pick one up tomorrow to see if it helps.

And to make matters even worse. The regular Direct TV service looks like crap. I equate it as watching a bad VHS tape on a regular TV. I guess I'll have to get the HD receiver ....?

[edDV]

I bought a LG 50PX5D
1366 x 768 resolution

That is a good resolution (close to 720p).
1080i needs to be deinterlaced and downscaled.
(Cheap sets may toss a field and scale from 1080x540p).

480p needs to be upscaled
480i needs to be deinterlaced and upscaled.

What is weird is that some original DVD look kind of distorted ....
Lords Of Dogtown & War of the Worlds. I dont' know if its an effect the studios were looking for or not but you see movement in background elements (stationary walls ... buildings.. etc.). The Bourne Identity looks good except for the scenes with water (ocean). The water looks very pixalated. My DVD player will up-convert DVD's through the HDMI cable. I'll pick one up tomorrow to see if it helps.

Are you sure you are in 480p progressive mode on both the DVD player and TV with the analog component connection? The idea is to avoid unnecessary interlacing and deinterlacing.

Try DVD player HDMI at at 480p (HDTV upscales to 1366x768) and 720p (player upscales to 1280x720 + HDTV rescales that to 1366x768). Avoid using 1080i.

And to make matters even worse. The regular Direct TV service looks like crap. I equate it as watching a bad VHS tape on a regular TV. I guess I'll have to get the HD receiver ....?

Normal Direct TV is ~540x480 interlaced. The S-Video will need to be digitized and deinterlaced by the HDTV and then scaled to 1366x768. Quality is at the mercy of the HDTV deinterlacer/scaler.

Consider the new DirecTV MPeg4 HD service when it reaches your market it will offer national and local HDTV channels + progressive versions of the other channels all over HDMI (scaled 720p ideally).

[thoughton]

What's with the cheap and nasty accusations of piracy that are getting thrown around here lately? Frobozz and TerryJ, I'm lookin' at you (in this thread, you guys don't generally behave this way). We used to have a mod that was constantly making snide accusations as well.

I for one am goddamn sick of it. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to start posting snide comments in reply to some of the regulars here, insinuating that they are pirates. Let's see how you guys enjoy it.

[Frobozz]

I thought goat handled my insinuations very professionally and I apologized. Thanks for letting me know this is one of your hot topics. My wrist is now officially slapped.

[thoughton]

Thanks for allowing me my rant Frobozz I was feelin kind of shirty when I posted that so I apologise for the tone (although I stand by the general sentiment).

I just don't like the 'shoot first ask questions later' mentality. If we all behaved like that this whole forum would be full of netcops, all imposing their own values (or those of their country and/or religion) onto other people. In some countries there is no concept of a "personal copy" doctrine, so backing up a CD or DVD is illegal, no matter what the popular intepretation of a US legal decision is. Do we call people from these countries pirates and refuse to help them? No we don't, we just ignore the fact and discuss what this forum is all about, Mac video conversion/creation/compression. Suppose some fundamentalist Muslim appeared on this forum and started making snide remarks about immoral Western cinema. Would we tell him to keep his opinions and beliefs to himself? You bet we would.

I guess the main point I am trying to make (not well, I admit) is that this forum is about Mac video. Unless there is glaring evidence of a crime, we should presume innocence and just offer whatever assistance we care to.

[terryj]

What's with the cheap and nasty accusations of piracy that are getting thrown around here lately? Frobozz and TerryJ, I'm lookin' at you (in this thread, you guys don't generally behave this way). We used to have a mod that was constantly making snide accusations as well.

I for one am goddamn sick of it. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to start posting snide comments in reply to some of the regulars here, insinuating that they are pirates. Let's see how you guys enjoy it.

WHOA!

My opinions and ways I carry myself are just that,
NOTHING MORE.

If you or Goat took offense to what I said, hey I'm sorry,
but.........not trying to offend..........
maybe you should look deeper as to why you took offense,
instead of taking offense with the messenger, thoughton.

and yes, old friend, I don't usually act this way...
perhaps I could have handled this better if I had said:
"and why can you not just use the original discs?"
sorry, often what first comes to mind isn't the most....
thought out? PC? friendly?

I guess the main point I am trying to make (not well, I admit) is that this forum is about Mac video. Unless there is glaring evidence of a crime, we should presume innocence and just offer whatever assistance we care to.

on this, I agree.
I'm not a Mod, and not a netcop.
Helpful, sure.


And on a Personal opinion note,
NBC just joined ITMS.
One down, five to go.

[goat]

No offense taken .....

Anyway, the HDMI cable helps a little but you still see artifacts/pixalation with the DVD2ONE (compressed) DVD's & even on the ORIGINAL DVD's.

This weekend I'm going to pick up the Direct TV HD receiver and see how the broadcast is. If its not up to par I might return the TV and get an EDTV instead. Does anyone know when the HD DVD's will hit the market? That might sway my decision.

[gregorym]

Um…

So does the 2 1/2 year old notice the compression artifacts?

Just wondering…

[thoughton]

Terry, we've bantered back and forth on this forum for a long time now. So accept my apologies in advance, cos I'm possibly about to offend you

If you or Goat took offense to what I said, hey I'm sorry,
but.........not trying to offend..........
maybe you should look deeper as to why you took offense,
instead of taking offense with the messenger, thoughton.

Firstly you insinuate goat is a pirate. I object to this presumption of guilt, so you then insinuate I'm a pirate?!?!!! Great apology ... not !!!

And about "not trying to offend":

hmmm...maybe he can't?

I don't see how this statement can be taken to mean anything other than implying that goat is a pirate.

Cheers buddy

[goat]

Matter of fact ... yes !!!
She is pretty upset about it too. She asked me why I could not afford the Pioneer Elite 50" ....

[willrob]

Maybe you should wait till next year and get a Canon/Toshiba joint venture SED monitors. And of course a Blue Ray player. No point in skimping.

[Frobozz]

Maybe you should wait till next year and get a Canon/Toshiba joint venture SED monitors. And of course a Blue Ray player. No point in skimping.

Or just the opposite: I don't think you'll be able to see the artifacts on an iPod video.

[gregorym]

Matter of fact ... yes !!!
She is pretty upset about it too. She asked me why I could not afford the Pioneer Elite 50" ....

Wow

2 1/2 years = Finicky and demanding too!



One thing you might want to consider is the calibration of your monitor.

A lot of consumers don't have their sets optimized, and have settings all pegged, which exaggerate artifacts. A properly calibrated monitor will not show off artifacts as much.

"Dad, I want the Elite!"

[goat]

How would you go about calibrating it? Would I connect it to my Mac?

[gregorym]

These are the 2 industry standard discs for NTSC calibration for home theater viewing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/630551982X/qid=1134091749/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-533...s=dvd&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005PJ70/qid=1134091749/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-533...s=dvd&v=glance

[edDV]

I have some comments that relate over on this parallel thread, we can advance the discussion here or there.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286314&highlight=