strange SVCD subtitles, maybe due to 480x480 --> 4:3

[aldaco12]

Hi. I'usually encode movies with permanent subtitles into them, and I'm noticing this strange fact.
When I try to encode mpeg/avi into VCD with subtitles, it seems I make everithing almost perfectly; when I do mpeg/avi ---> SVCD (for hi-quality - but not comparable to DVD quality - movies) I seem to notice that the letters of the subtitle, that appear perfect in the mpeg M2V video, appear a little 'squeezed' on the final mpeg.
That is, if I open with WMP the M2V file, everything appears perfect (but the screen appears a square, being 480x480), if I multiplex the M2V to a MP2 to create a MPEG and I open it, the subtitle appear 'squeezed', that is the 'O' letter appears oval, like the screen, which from 480x480 becames rectangular (4:3).
The aspect ratio of the movie appears correct, but examining a almost perfect round like the 'O' letter, I seem to notice the difference.

Is this normal? Is there a way to avoid the subtitle letters appear 'squeezed'?

[junkmalle]

Use a player which displays the SVCD with the proper 4:3 display aspect ratio. Media Player Classic and VideoLAN support this.

edit:

Oops, I read the original post backwards. I shouldn't post before my morning coffee. Manono's post contains the information you need.

[manono]

Hi-

I understand what you're doing, and your problem, but you haven't said exactly how you're doing it. Adding the subs before or after the SVCD resizing will make a difference in how they will appear upon resized playback. For example, if using AviSynth with an initial 640x480 AVI being converted to 480x480 SVCD resolution encoded for 4:3, this will make the subs appear squeezed (or in this case, flattened):

AVISource("C:\Path\To\Movie.avi")
Lanczosresize(480,480)
TextSub("C:\Path\To\Movie.srt")

You play that in the square 480x480 Windows player, they'll look normal. You play it resized in a better player, they'll appear flattened. If, on the other hand, you put the subs before the resize:

AVISource("C:\Path\To\Movie.avi")
TextSub("C:\Path\To\Movie.srt")
Lanczosresize(480,480)

In the square 480x480 Windows player, they'll appear elongated (the height of an "o" being greater than the width), but when resized properly they'll be normal again.

Even if those examples don't apply directly to what you're doing, I'm sure you get the idea. And if not, or you don't see how to do it with the methods you're using, perhaps detail exactly how you're doing the conversion and encoding.

[mats.hogberg]

Yes, the way you describe it, you must be adding the subs after resizing to 480*480.
Add subs, then resize (it's just a matter of adding the filters in the right order).

/Mats

[aldaco12]

No, for what I understood I must insert the subtitle BEFORE the resizing, since AviSynth keeps original aspect ratio. And this hypotesis appears correct, since the movie's screen appear correctly resized.

For instance, I could use this scrypt:

AviSource("c:\my_movies\movie.avi")
LoadPlugin("c:\Programs\AviSynth 2.5_plugins\TextSub\VSFilter.dll")
TextSub("C:\subtitles\movie_subtitle.ssa")
# I want to reach 480x576 but 16 pixels are hidden by the TV border
# the source AVI is 608x344 and I want to keep all Y --> resize 448x334
# that it the command is: AddBorders (16,[576-344]/2,16,[576-344]/2)
LanczosResize(448,344)
AddBorders(16,116,16,116)
ConvertToYUY2()

Am I correct?

[mats.hogberg]

That's what I said (or tried to, at least).
You add the subs to the AVI then resize it - that way, if the rest of the image displays at the right proportions, so should the subs.
If you get stretched characters in the subs, you must have resized, then added the subs.
AFAIK, that avs should work as intended.

/Mats

[Abond]

In case of SVCD is better to use selectable subtitles if your player support this.

[mats.hogberg]

Unfortunately, not many seem to do...

/Mats

[manono]

Am I correct?

No. Why do people insist on doing their own resizing when they don't know what they're doing? Especially when there's FitCD to do it correctly for them?

TextSub("C:\subtitles\movie_subtitle.ssa")
LanczosResize(448,406)
AddBorders(16,85,16,85)

That's with a 1:1 AVI source, ITU resizing, 2 blocks overscan, encoding for PAL 4:3 SVCD. It's slightly different without ITU resizing. The 2 "85"s should probably be even numbers, becoming 84 and 86.

[aldaco12]

A personal suggestion, it happened to me casually , using VirtualDub (in its VirtualDub-MPEG2 variant):

1) select Filter__Add__Resize and do your resize (I use 448 x Y , where Y is the Y resolution of the AVI).
- in the same filter I check 'expand frame and letterbox image', going to 480x480/576.
- be careful thet, on filtrer, you choose 'lanczos3' (the best).
I don't know why, but the 'resize' always keeps aspect ratio!!!
2) close the 'resize' filter, add the 'subtitler' filter, I load the subtitle converted to SSA forb just being careful to have checked 'lines cutting' = as the original, Font = Arial 20 Bold, Distance from the bottom bodrer = 0 pixels, subtitle colour = white (I use 'SRT to SSA converter').

If you've installed VobSub (which I never use to add subtitles, but I noticed it has an extremaly useful effect), the subtitles you use are automatically split in more lines, if the subtitle exceedes the Y axis (- 20 pixel E ; - 20 pixels W).

Save a VirtualDub's frameserving file (movie.vdr) and load it with your favorite encoder....

The fact that you loaded the 'resize' filter with the 'letterboxing' options chosen BEFORE the subtitler filter avoid the subtitle letters to be 'letterboxed' even if the video is so (480x480 --> 4:3).

I really don't know why it works, but this is what happens...

A 608x344 which I resized to 448x344 + letterboxed to 480x576 (I use PAL system) is shown perfectly (I took into account that 32 pixels remain 'hidden' by my TV screen, so a the black border is never seen in my TV).
The same happened when I loaded an input movie which was a 480x480 mpeg, choosing resize: 448x480 (lanczsos3) + litterbox to 480x576...


Any comment on this? Why do I notice lanczos3 always keeps aspect ratio? It's strange I'm the only one which never worries about choosing the right XxY axis which keep aspect ratio! ut, looking on letters, they appear at a perfect aspect ratio!