720p HDTV Broadcast to 480p DVD-R/RW?

[Robert Simandl]

Thanks to all who've helped me out converting 1080i HDTV broadcasts to DVD-compliant 480p mpegs. That CSI episode from my FusionHDTV card looks great on my DVD player now.

Different animal now, 720p HDTV broadcasts. Here's what I did for an episode of THE INSIDE:

1. FusionHDTV records HD broadcast as 1280x720 59.94fps progressive .mpg file.

2. Edit commercials with VideoRedoPlus, save as shorter 1280x720p .mpg file.

3. Load edited 1280x720p .mpg file into VirtualDubMod, extract the 5.1 channel .ac3 file.

4. Go to Video/Frame rate, check "Process every other frame (decimate by 2)," start frameserver.

5. Load the edited/decimated 1280x720p 29.97fps .vdr.avi file into TMPGEnc Plus, encode to non-interlace 720x480 29.97fps .m2v file.

6. Load the .m2v and .ac3 files into TMPGEnc DVD Author, burn DVD-RW.

7. Put DVD-RW into DVD player, marvel at excellent picture detail on scenes with little or no movement, curse at jitter during pans.

From what I learned in the thread about 1080i, I'm presuming the jitter is due to the film source being originally 23.976fps before conversion to 720p mpeg. And my newly created 480p 29.97fps is jittering because it's repeating some frames it shouldn't be repeating.

With my 1080i files, an inverse telecine in TMPGEnc fixed this issue by recreating the original 23.976 progessive data from the interlaced 29.97 file. But since this 720p file is progressive, a traditional IVTC won't work.

Looks like I need to delete frames here and there to get the frame rate down to 23.976. Is there an (relatively) easy but (relatively) accurate way to do that in TMPGEnc or VirtualDubMod?

I've seen a couple of XviD's of THE INSIDE with 23.976 frame rates, so I know it can be done, just not clear how.

Thanks...

[edDV]

Without getting into the tools detail, first a little background.

ATSC allows 720p (1280x720 progressive) to be broadcast at 24, 30 or 60 frames per second (more exactly 23.976, 29.97 and 59.94 to keep in sync).

ABC and Fox take pride in 720p 60 frames per second sports broadcasting where the camera acquisition is actually done at that rate. Tosssing every other frame will take it down to 720p 30 frames per second with less smooth motion.

24 (23.976) fps Film can be handled in three ways for ATSC

1. Directly broadcast as 24fps. The HDTV will then apply a 3:2 frame repeat process similar to the way a progressive DVD player produces a 480p 59.94 frames per second output from a 23.976 encoded DVD.

2. Broadcast at 720p 59.94 fps where the 3:2 frame repeat process is done prior to transmission.

3. Broadcast at 720p 30 fps or 60 fps through some sort of 480i interlace to progressive deinterlacer followed by upconversion to 1280x720. I'm suspect of attempts to reverse this process with any quality and defer to others with more detail.

gotta go. be back this evening.

[Robert Simandl]

I suspect in the case of THE INSIDE and all current Fox filmed shows, it's option #2 above.

[edDV]

I suspect in the case of THE INSIDE and all current Fox filmed shows, it's option #2 above.

ABC claims to be airing "most" of its feature movies in true 720p 60fps*. According to Joe Kane Productions (JKP) ** D-Theater transfers are currently done in 1080p 24 but release master tapes are 1080i 30. It is not clear whether ABC's 720p movies are transferred from 1080p 24 original data, or from 1080i 30 tape masters. Never assume anything.

That is for movies, I'm still looking for articles on ABC 720p TV series production methods. Ideally, they would shoot 59.94 or 29.97 fps film and edit at 60p or 30p. Shooting 24 fps seems like it would be a poor compromise for 20% film stock savings vs 29.97 fps. Once on 720p tape, I would expect them to use 720p 60 or 30 fps compositing and graphics so any assumption of 24 fps back conversion w/o bad frames is again a big assumption. Alternatively 24 fps acquisition and editing could be used and 24 fps masters converted to other delivery formats (see "24p primer" link below). The path back to 24 fps would need to exactly reverse those conversions.

So in conclusion, I don't see a reliable conversion path to 24p for a series but it may be possible for certain movies.

To get a sample of the complexities of 720p production in a multiformat world read about the 720p Oscars broadcast here
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/n_oscars_glitter.shtml

* Letter ABC president (2/3 down page)
http://www.businessweek.com/@@h3bhAGYQOpXOCg0A/magazine/content/02_26/c3789038.htm
**
http://www.videoessentials.com/D_TheaterQA.php

other useful links
http://www.maxentusa.com/uploads/files/33.pdf
http://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/MayJun00/24p_primer.html
http://bg.broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_format_conversion_6/

[Robert Simandl]

I think we can rule out 29.97 as the original frame rate, at least in this instance. For the episode of THE INSIDE, a simple decimating of the frame rate to 29.97 left it jittery.

So I told TMPGEnc to do an IVTC on it (auto-ivtc, de-interlaced source setting). That took 109 minutes on my 3.06gHz P4. The encode itself will take another 8 hours. I guess we'll find out in the morning after the encode is done how it worked.

[vhelp]

@ Robert Simandl

Don't wait till tomorrow

You can check right now, as a matter of fact. Even while your
first TMPG is encoding.

Just open another instance of TMPGenc again, and using the same
setup as in the one runing now.. perform the IVTC method preporation
and when all is set and done, proceed towards the Ctrl+Shift+P and
scan throughout the video using the slide bar. Look at the video
for any signs of Interlace. If you see them in the preview mode,
you know somewhere, there is a problem. And that problem could be
dropped frames during your initial capture, or something else within
the IVTC method setup. But, you do not have to wait the whole night
for this, only to find out, that it didn't work after all.

Note, as long as you open another TMPG instance in the same TMPG
directory, your IVTC should be quick, because it usually caches this
process. So, it should be instantainous in a 2nd run.

Try it out, if you eagor. At least, if anything does show up wrong,
you can always stop the first TMPG from encoding, and begin debugging
your process.

Good luck,

-vhelp 3431

[DereX888]

it'll be much easier and faster to try out *any* settings by encoding only a short sample (using source range? option in tmpeg IIRC)

[edDV]

More useful links

This one describes the 480p 720p 2:3 frame repeat process 23,976 to 59.94 in overview. It also introduces reverse telecine concepts for 720p.
Scroll down to "Digital Television, High Definition, and DVD" I'm looking for more detail.
http://www.answers.com/topic/telecine

This link goes a bit more in detail but is weak on 720p
http://www.divx.com/support/guides/guide.php?gid=10

Avid says 720p/23.976 native support still sometime in 2005 so don't assume current shows to be easily converted back to 23.976. Were they edited at 720p/59.94? It is possible 720p/23.976 alpha software is being used.
http://www.avid.co.uk/products/xpressprohd/faq.shtml

Here is Doom9 struggling with the same issue without success so far.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=a100e62d729f9e501f9cab03c946591f&threadid=88201

[Gargoyle]

Check out my post HERE

I've actually been converting the same show (The Inside) - I'll post my AviSynth script in a couple of hours. (@work right now)

[edDV]

Check out my post HERE

I've actually been converting the same show (The Inside) - I'll post my AviSynth script in a couple of hours. (@work right now)

Gargoyle wrote (in the other post):
"I checked some of my 59.94 fps captures, and as junkmalle suggested, it looks to me that its simply a 29.97 framerate source material, with every frame duplicated."

If true, that show is not true progressive 720p after all. Looks like maybe a 1080i 30 conversion?

I had forgotten "The Inside" was a Fox show. Unlike ABC, Fox has never announced any plans for 720p series production. This show is either upconverted 480i or converted 1080i 30.

PS: I'm getting on a plane in a couple of hours. I'll monitor the rest of this from the road.

[Robert Simandl]

I did a still frame through the INSIDE episode before the conversion started yesterday (still haven't had a chance to look at the result). Sometimes it would take two frame advances to see movement, sometimes three.

THanks for the links, Ed. I'll check 'em out tonight after I see how the encode went.

[junkmalle]

I did a still frame through the INSIDE episode before the conversion started yesterday (still haven't had a chance to look at the result). Sometimes it would take two frame advances to see movement, sometimes three.

Sounds like 24 fps film converted to progressive 60 fps. Half the film frames are shown twice, half 3 times: 24 * 2.5 = 60.

[Robert Simandl]

I think Junkmalle is correct in his framerate analysis.

Just got a look at both episodes of THE INSIDE that got done encoding last night. I had made a d2v with DGIndex, ran TMPGEnc inverse telecine ("24fps auto mode from deinterlaced source"), then encoded as 720x480 23.976fps 3:2 pulldown enabled.

Both episodes have less jitter than before (1st try was simply decimating to 29.97fps in VdubMod then encoding to 29.97fps non-interlace).

But jitter not completely gone.

Episode 4 (6/29) was flat out PERFECT, no jitter whatsoever, until the first commercial break -- then started to jitter. Running my DVD player one frame at a time showed there was a frame repeating at each point where I noticed the jitter.

Episode 3 (6/22) had jitter from the start, but nowhere near as much as when I tried the decimate to 29.97 trick.

Apparently TMPGEnc's IVTC auto mode isn't quite sophisticated enough to tell when the frame repeat pattern changes after an edit.

So I think the inverse telecine here is the right general idea (especially considering XviD's of this show from the Net are 23.976fps and show no jitter whatsoever from beginning to end).

Just need to figure out how to tweak more specifically.

I've yet to try IVTC in VdubMod. What are the chances it'll do better than IVTC in TMPGEnc?

Hey Gargoyle, are your AVIsynth encodes smooth? No jitter? Every time I try AVIsynth I give up in frustration, it's just too technical for me. But if you have a script that works I'll give it another shot.

Thanks...

[junkmalle]

I doubt VirtualDub's IVTC methods will work with 60 fps progressive material. They're likley to introduce interlaced frames into the result.

It's simple frame rate reduction may work though. In the Frame Rate dialog, in the Frame Rate Conversion section, set the Convert To FPS value to 23.976. This will result in 3 of every 5 frames being thrown away. The issue is to make sure it's the right three! And you may have problems if there are any inconsistencies in the pulldown pattern. (Not sure if "pulldown pattern" is the right phrase here -- maybe it should be "duplication pattern".)

AVISynth's "SelectEvery" filter will work too but again, you may have trouble if the pulldown pattern isn't consistent.

SelectEvery(5, 1, 3)

Out of every 5 Frames, use frames 1 and 3 (or whichever you deem appropriate).

[Gargoyle]

I've never noticed any jitter (and I'm very quality-driven), but I also watch on a SDTV, so I don't know what the output would look like on a progressive-capable set. BUT I always do a quick preview on my pc, and never noticed any jitter while watching on that.
Heres the AviSynth scipt that I use for most of my Fusion caps>DVD (I used to regularly convert Alias, Lost, and 24 with basically the same script):


LoadPlugin("G:\DVD tools\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\BT709ToBT601.dll")
LoadPlugin("G:\DVD tools\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2Source("G:\capture\inside.d2v")
Lanczos4Resize(720,480)
ConvertToYV12()
selectevery(2,1)
BT709ToBT601()


The "BT709ToBT601" command is a color conversion filter; something to do with the colorspace used by HDTV broadcasts - feel free to delete it.

BTW - you might want to encode to MPEG2 before you cut out the commercials - it takes a bit more time, but might solve the jitter problem.

[Robert Simandl]

Hi Junkmalle,

After posting my previous question, I looked at Vdub's help files. You are correct. Its inverse telecine options will definitely not work. They're strictly for 29.97 to 23.976.

Changing the frame rate definitely won't work, either. Vdub's "change frame rate" doesn't throw ANY frames away. It just makes them run at a different speed. I know this because when I changed the rate from 25fps to 23.976fps once, I also had to change the speed of the audio track to match it.

As my experience with episode 4 above proved, the pulldown pattern is not consistent between edit points.

Maybe we need to save each segment of the show as its own file, do IVTC and 480p encode on each, then merge them all afterwards? Nah, too much work.

Or maybe during the "editing out commercials" step, make sure each saved segment starts with 3 duplicated frames and ends with 2 duplicated frames, so the pattern will stay consistent over the whole edited file? Hmmm, might be on to something here....

[junkmalle]

Changing the frame rate definitely won't work, either. Vdub's "change frame rate" doesn't throw ANY frames away. It just makes them run at a different speed. I know this because when I changed the rate from 25fps to 23.976fps once, I also had to change the speed of the audio track to match it.

You changed the wrong one. There are 3 frame rate changes in VirtualDub. The middle one works by duplicating or throwing away frames.

As my experience with episode 4 above proved, the pulldown pattern is not consistent between edit points. Maybe we need to save each segment of the show as its own file, do IVTC and 480p encode on each, then merge them all afterwards? Nah, too much work.

I don't think any program will give you perfect results unless you work in sections.

Or maybe during the "editing out commercials" step, make sure each saved segment starts with 3 duplicated frames and ends with 2 duplicated frames, so the pattern will stay consistent over the whole edited file? Hmmm, might be on to something here....

As long as there are no breaks in the middle of the program segments. I've seen some films where there is a break at every shot change!

[edDV]

Here is my take on 720p. Comments welcome

It seems difficult to find the native production standard for network series. 20th Century Fox doesn't even ID the show as HDTV.

This FOX station gave a good summary about their broadcast formats as of 1/05. They don't indicate frame rates or whether it is an upconversion.
http://fox61.trb.com/entertainment/hidef/stv-fox-hdtv-shows,0,7634771.story?coll=wtic-footer

This link shows "The Inside" as 720p with no further detail.
http://www.hdbeat.com/2005/07/03/july-3-weekly-hdtv-program-highlights/

Since Avid hasn't relesed their 24P (23.976) software yet, I doubt many series are edited at 720p 24 all the way through. Some alternatives to explore.

- ABC style 720p 60 (59.94)
1280x720 23.976 progressive film transfer using 2:3 frame repeat sequence to reach 59.94.
Effects, bumpers, credits are probably 720p 60 (59.94) native.

- Normal 480i field based 24.976 to 29.97 telecine upscaled and frame repeated to reach 720p 59.94.
This is normal 480i to 720p upscale (i.e. progressive film telecined to 480i then upscaled to 720p)
Effects, bumpers, credits are probably 480i native.

- 1080i 30 (HDCAM as used by CBS, NBC, PBS, etc.) converted to 720P
1440 or 1920x1080 23.976 progressive film transfer (raw data) telecined to 1080i 29.97 videotape.
1080i 29.97 videotape is then deinterlaced and scaled to 720p 29.97 or 59.94.
Effects, bumpers, credits are probably 1080i native.

- 24p (23.976) native (full show)
1280x720 23.976 progressive film transfer edited in 720p 24
Effects, bumpers, credits are probably 720p 24 native.
(This is unlikely unless a custom process was used. Commercials could be mixed 720p 24, 30, 60 or converted 1080i or upconverted 480i/p)

Only the first can be easily converted back to 23.976 progressive but manual intervention is required for effects, bumpers, credits and commercials. The last alternative is already 24p throughout except for breaks.

[Robert Simandl]

The Inside, Episode 4, Take 3.

This is the episode that showed no jitter at all during the first segment on take 2 above, then went to Hell after the first edit point. I had used TMPGEnc's IVTC, "auto-setting deinterlaced source."

This time I tried it manually. For every frame in the source, TMPGEnc's IVTC config shows an "a" frame and a "b" frame. Each "b" frame is an interlace of the real "a" frame before and after it. So obviously I didn't want any B frames in the final file. And obviously there is a pattern of 10 frames to look for rather than the 5 frames associated with 23.976 frames spread to 59.94.

First, I set the target to 24fps (23.976 isn't an option in TMPGEnc's IVTC config) and found the 1000100000 frame pattern. Basically I found an interlaced frame, marked the first frame after it for inclusion, unmarked the next frames (either 3 or 5 of them) through the next one that showed interlace. Then I went backwards to the fade in from black at the beginning. Once I found the frame where the pattern began, I right clicked that frame and clicked "apply pattern from this frame on" (or something like that). I typed in 1000100000 in the next box that appeared and started scrubbing forward through the file. Sure enough, every 1st and 5th frame out of 10 came after an interlace frame and was marked for inclusion... until the first edit point.

From there, some identical frames were marked for inclusion (so they'd repeat in the final encode) and some needed frames were skipped. So I repeated the process and reestablished the correct 1000100000 pattern from the point of the edit.

I had to do this at each edit point. The end credits proved impossible to get 100% right (maybe they were a different rate to begin with as edDV mentioned in the post above mine).

Clicked OK. I was back at the "advanced" tab with "inverse telecine -- user defined" checked.

Encoded, authored and burned. Perfect. No jitter at all from beginning to end. Not even in the end credits where I was unable to pinpoint the frame repeat pattern.

Although the 5.1 audio was in perfect sync from beginning to end, I noticed a few spots where there was no sound coming from the front left and right channels -- even in a scene where loud music was playing and should have been heard through all channels. I was only getting sound from the center and rears.

This episode is also sitting on my HD Tivo, so I'll be playing that scene back to see if the front channel dropouts were in the original broadcast or not. If the dropouts aren't there on the Tivo, then I'll run the ac3 file through BeSliced and see if that fixes it.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna do another episode to make sure my success here wasn't a fluke.

[Robert Simandl]

The same episode on my HD Tivo had front channels fine and dandy.

So either the FusionHDTV card screwed something up in the audio, or I did. I'll take a closer look at episode 3 and see if the same thing went on there.

[junkmalle]

Once I found the frame where the pattern began, I right clicked that frame and clicked "apply pattern from this frame on" (or something like that). I typed in 1000100000 in the next box that appeared

You don't have to start with the first frame of the 1000100000 pattern. Since the pattern repeats over and over you can start anywhere in the sequence. So pick the frame you really want to start with and figure out what the sequence is from there (a rotaion of the pattern). You'll get fewer audio problems that way.

It's too bad TMPGEnc doesn't have a "deal around this frame frame according to selected pattern". That would make it much easier -- you could find the right pattern in the middle of the segment and it would apply the pattern to the whole segment.

Actually, in your case it's even simpler. It doesn't really matter which of the duplicate frames you select as long as you grab one frame that corresponds to each of the original film frames. So since the film frames are repeated as follows (I'll use _ to represent the interlaced frames that TMPGEnc shows in the IVTC dialog):

1_1_2_2_2_3_3_4_4_4_5_5_6_6_6_7_7_8_8_8_

Starting with any "full" frame in this sequence at least one of the following two patterns will get the frames you want:

1000100000
1000001000

For example:

1_1_2_2_2_  3_3_4_4_4_  5_5_6_6_6_
1000100000  1000100000  1000100000
1000001000  1000001000  1000001000

1_2_2_2_3_  3_4_4_4_5_  5_6_6_6_7_
1000100000  1000100000  1000100000
1000001000  1000001000  1000001000

2_2_2_3_3_  4_4_4_5_5_  6_6_6_7_7_
1000001000  1000001000  1000001000

2_2_3_3_4_  4_4_5_5_6_  6_6_7_7_8_
1000100000  1000100000  1000100000
1000001000  1000001000  1000001000

2_3_3_4_4_  4_5_5_6_6_  6_7_7_8_8_
1000100000  1000100000  1000100000
etc.

[Robert Simandl]

Done two episodes of The Inside now, and they look great. Thanks for the advice everybody. Hopefully I can get this process streamlined a la junkmalle's above post.

[MJDore]

Done two episodes of The Inside now, and they look great. Thanks for the advice everybody. Hopefully I can get this process streamlined a la junkmalle's above post.

Would you mind re-summarizing your method? I've been working with an HD .ts of Rome and the jitter is unacceptable. I've been scratching my head on this one. Mind retracing your steps?

[Robert Simandl]

Just did this with the last two episodes of Prison Break (originally 23.976fps converted by Fox to 59.94fps 1280x720p with 5.1 channel AC-3 surround):

1. Record the program with FusionHDTV card (though any HD tuner card should work).

2. Open the prisonbreak103.tp file in VideoRedo, remove commercials, save as prisonbreak103.mpg (still 59.94 fps, 1280x720, with 5.1 channel sound). Note the frame numbers where the edit points are. You'll need this info later.

3. Open prisonbreak103.mpg in DGindex, a.k.a. DGMPGDEC. Make sure audio output method is simply "demux all tracks." Save project as prisonbreak103.d2v. This step is to separate out the soundtrack because I put the sound back into my DVD as-is, in all its 5.1 channel glory.

4. Open prisonbreak103.d2v in TMPGEnc Plus. Make sure you have "ES (video stream only)" checked. Click setting. Under advanced, make sure the info for the original file reads non-interlace and 16x9 display. If they don't, change them.

5. Double click the inverse telecine filter. Fox takes 23.976 filmed shows and converts them to 59.94fps HD by taking one frame and repeating once more, then taking the next frame and repeating it twice more, then back to repeating once, something like this:

11222334445566677888.....

What the inverse telecine filter does is reconstruct the original 23.976fps film: 12345678......

TMPGEnc has an automatic mode for doing inverse telecine, but I've found it's useless with Fox shows and I have to do it manually. Select the desired frame rate as 24fps.

The manual inverse telecine screen will show each frame from the d2v file ("a" frames), and a "b" frame after each "a" frame. Each "b" frame is an interlace/combination of the "a" frame before it and the "a" frame after it. But in a 59.94fps Fox show, the "a" frames repeat a lot so most of the "b" frames will simply be identical to the "a" frames:

1a1b2a2b3a3b4a4b5a5b6a6b....

I go through several frames on this screen and find the first one that shows interlace lines. I then click the first frame AFTER that so a red field appears around that frame. I then find the next frame that shows interlace lines in it. It will be either four or six frames after the previous interlaced frame. I click the first frame after THAT (four or six frames after the previous red-selected frame). I do this again. Until I establish a repeating pattern. The pattern will be either 1000100000 or 1000001000, with the 1's being frames I've selected and 0's being the repeated and/or interlaced frames that I skipped. I then go back to the first frame I selected, right click it, and click "deal after this frame according to selected pattern." The pattern to type in here will be either 1000100000 or 1000001000, depending on when the next selected frame is. I click OK.

Here is where those frame numbers from the edit points in VideoRedo come in handy. The above process needs to be repeated after each commercial break. This whole inverse telecine thing takes about a half hour for me on a one hour show that was edited to 45 minutes without commercials.

6. Once done, click OK and you'll be back at the TMPGEnc settings window. The inverse telecine filter will be checked and will specify "user setting." Click the video tab. Go down to "encode mode" and pick "3:2 pulldown when play back." Under frame rate you'll now have a choice of "23.976 (internally 29.97)" and this is the choice to use. For the other fields I use 720x480, 16x9 display, NTSC, MP@ML, 2-pass VBR with 6300avg, 9300max, 2000min, YUV mode of 4:2:0, 10-bit component precision, highest quality motion search (the one that says "very slow" in parentheses).

7. I then start the encoding and go to bed for the night.

It's done when I get up in the morning and I have a very high quality dvd-compliant .m2v file. It's of the perfect size for putting two episodes on a single layer DVD-R and including the .ac3 5.1 channel audio files when I get to the authoring stage.

I loaned one of my "The Inside" discs to a friend who took it over to another friend's 120-inch HD projector. That guy had copies of the same episodes left in 1280x720 HD resolution, requiring two DVD-R's per episode. They played his HD discs and my re-encoded DVD-compliant discs on his HTPC through the projector and were amazed at how little difference there was... especially considering I had two episodes per disc and he had two discs per episode.

I realize the inverse telecine process above reads like so much gobble-dee-gook, but hopefully it will make more sense once you have TMPGEnc running in front of you while reading it. I hope to get around to making a guide with screenshots "someday" (though probably not for a while).

[MJDore]

Thanks for the great info. I've been on the road but I can't wait to get back home and try this out.

Out of curiousity, I'm not very familiar with VideoRedo. Does it accept transport streams? I am recording to my Comcast Motorola 6412 receiver and transferring to PC via firewire and CapDVHS.

[Robert Simandl]

Yup, VideoRedo does transport streams, though I think you have to register (pay for) the program then download the newest beta first. IIRC, the trial version does NOT do TS streams.

If you don't want to pay for VideoRedo yet, HDTVtoMPEG2 is freeware and will accomplish the same general thing as VideoRedo, but I don't think its editing is frame-accurate like VideoRedo's is.

If I'm wrong on any of this, someone feel free to correct...

[MJDore]

Why couldn't you perform the encoding first with the commercials still there and then use a tool like MPEG2Schnitt to cut the resulting .m2v file? Wouldn't that cut down on the time it takes to work on the frames? I'm going to give that a try and see what I come up with.

[junkmalle]

Why couldn't you perform the encoding first with the commercials still there and then use a tool like MPEG2Schnitt to cut the resulting .m2v file? Wouldn't that cut down on the time it takes to work on the frames? I'm going to give that a try and see what I come up with.

There will be IVTC pattern breaks at the commercials. You'll still have to work in sections.

[Robert Simandl]

Yeah, what Junkmalle said.

[Robert Simandl]

Did anyone else here record this week's Prison Break episode?

My Gawd, there's a change in the IVTC pattern not just every commercial break.... not even just every SCENE.... but almost every CAMERA SHOT!

And it's BIG changes, too... the kind of change where suddenly the "1000" part of the pattern is in the middle of the "100000" part (meaning repeated frames in the final encode, a sure fire guarantee of jitter).

Or even worse, the "1000100000" pattern finds itself hitting the 1 on the frames TMPGEnc is interlacing, a guarantee of interlace lines in the final encode.... mighty annoying when going from a progressive original to a progressive encode!

Sometimes I gotta wonder how those 23.976fps avi's appear on the net so soon after their broadcast.... it's taking me longer just to do the IVTC on this thing than it's taken the bootleggers to completely encode and upload the file!



For this particular episode I'm about ready to say the h*ll with it and run it through Chrissyboy's new HDTV2DVD program!

BTW, thanks to Chrissyboy for letting me test that program out!

[/b][/i]