MiniDV VS. DVCAM, advice needed. (Sony DSRPDX10)

[Cyrax9]

Okay guys, after going through two different stores I was finally able to purchase a Sony DSRPDX10 (PDX10) which I've been using for a few months now in a classroom. (The reason for the delay/why I needed one is another story.)

Anyway, I've been using Panasonic AY-DVM83PQ 83 Minute Professional Quality MiniDV Tapes in this unit. I've read about Panasonic AY-DVM83MQ Master Quality MiniDV Tapes and something called Advanced Master Quality on some other tapes.

Then there's this little thing I keep reading about that's making me go insane -- DVCAM.

Okay, I understand DVCAM is theoretically a "better" format according to it's success ratio and tape quality but I'm a bit confused and I have some questions.

1. Does anyone besides Sony Make MiniDVCAM Tapes? I need them to be "mini" so they fit the PDX10.

2. What's the highest "grade" of DVCAM Tapes?

3. Do you recommend MiniDV Tapes recorded in DVCAM mode or DVCAM Tapes recorded in DVCAM Mode? If so please state the brand and grade of the tape.

4. Which is higher in quality, Master Grade or Professional Grade Panasonic MiniDV Tapes? I've seen both and Master is more expensive but it doesn't have any sort of "newbie chart" to show that it's better than Professional. (Think of how companies used to do Silver and Gold quality tapes and then some cheap consumer term for a low-level line.) Which of these "grades" is better in terms of quality, and are any of these better than a DVCAM Tape?

5. Could you reccomend a DVCAM Tape with the following qualities:
- Fits a Sony DSRPDX10 MiniDV/DVCAM VTR Deck:

- "Best" Quality (PQ/Sound)

- "Best" Longevity (Longest lasting shelf life)

- DVCAM Tape (w/Chip? w/out Chip? DVCAM or MiniDV in DVCAM Mode?)

- Most reliable for recording/playback/storage -- DVCAM claims to be over
50% more reliable than MiniDV.

- Prosumer/Studio-level MiniDVCAM tapes; no consumer level tapes please. (I've seen what happens with the MiniDV Consumer level tapes; the professional grade tapes are far superior.)

- Approx. 55 Minutes (83Min MiniDV in DVCAM Mode) or higher recording time in DVCAM mode.


Basicallly I'm looking for a high-end Prosumer/Studio-level DVCAM Tape. I've seen editing decks that JVC makes which handle MiniDV, DV, and DVCAM but I'd like to use DVCAM in a DVCAM Camcorder.

I should also note that I stripe all my tapes w/Time Code before recording and I'm currently pleased with what Panasonic has to offer in the way of MiniDV, I'd like to use DVCAM though and I don't know if they offer tapes designed for use in DVCAM Camcorders or not.

Direct links are helpful and I'd like to know if Sony's DVCAM Tapes have the same problems as their analog VHS Tapes or some of their other media which doesn't last long or has flaws. -- This is why I'm using Panasonic tapes. I don't know if Sony's are a bad brew or not so help would be appreciated.


Remember these are technically "MiniDVCAM" tapes which is even more confusing to me as I attempt to look for something that'll fit the PDX10 with no idea of what I actually need.

In addition I have some fairly newbie-esque questions about the format itself -- the PDX10's manuial was a bit confusing and didn't answer these questions:

1. Do MiniDV/DVCAM Tapes show quality degredation between generations the way analog tapes do? I know DVDs Don't but I don't know if Digital tapes do.

2. If I were to capture a MiniDV Tape that was recorded in SP Mode to a PC/Mac and subsequently output to a DVCAM Tape, would this lower the quality or would my new "DVCAM Master" be just as good as the original MiniDV Master? (I had to use an old 1CCD MiniDV Camcorder for awhile and would like to transfer these tapes to DVCAM eventually.)

3. How long does it take for the tracking to go bad on a MiniDV/DVCAM Tape?

4. Can I dub a MiniDV Tape to a DVCAM Tape without quality loss or would this not be possible? Would capturing the tape first prevent quality loss or would it make no differance?

5. Are DVCAM Tapes in general the same size as MiniDV Tapes or are they the size of "Large" DV Tapes? Are these MiniDVCAM Tapes I need some obscure format or can I find them easily?

6. Are their DVCAM Tapes that'll fit a Sony DSRPDX10 which are greater then or equal to 83 minutes in length in DVCAM Mode or would I need to edit tapes together on an editing deck?

7. What's a good JVC Editing Deck for MiniDV/DVCAM that'll read MiniDV Tapes recorded in DVCAM Mode? -- I don't remember the model #'s of the decks in the classroom.


Thank you in advance for any and all help you can give me; It's appreciated. My final question is this -- Professional Panasonic MiniDV, Master Panasonic MiniDV, or MiniDVCAM for the PDX10? I need to know before I decide which to sink my money into. Unfortunately only DVCAM Mode lets me lay down time code and I need that on my tapes.

~Cyrax9~

[edDV]

So many beginner questions. Start here and I'll add some more.

Some starters.
- MiniDV (and Digita8) and DVCAM record basically the same format on tape. Differences are very minor.
- DVCAM records wider tracks with wider guard bands to facilitate tape interchange (e.g. different editing deck).
- Pro tapes are designed for heavy use, resistance to dropouts, fast pro deck winding, etc.
- The DVCAM microchips store camcorder settings and support tape logging functions used only on higher end camcorder models than yours.

http://www.taperesources.com/faq.html

[edDV]

Remember these are technically "MiniDVCAM" tapes which is even more confusing to me as I attempt to look for something that'll fit the PDX10 with no idea of what I actually need.

In addition I have some fairly newbie-esque questions about the format itself -- the PDX10's manuial was a bit confusing and didn't answer these questions:

1. Do MiniDV/DVCAM Tapes show quality degredation between generations the way analog tapes do? I know DVDs Don't but I don't know if Digital tapes do.

No, you could dub the data forever and won't see loss. But loading into and dubbing from an editor may or may not create transcoding losses (e.g. DV->RGB->DV, filtering issues).

2. If I were to capture a MiniDV Tape that was recorded in SP Mode to a PC/Mac and subsequently output to a DVCAM Tape, would this lower the quality or would my new "DVCAM Master" be just as good as the original MiniDV Master? (I had to use an old 1CCD MiniDV Camcorder for awhile and would like to transfer these tapes to DVCAM eventually.)

No differences due to MiniDV vs DVCAM. The DV signal is the same. The editor may alter the signal (see above).

3. How long does it take for the tracking to go bad on a MiniDV/DVCAM Tape?

The tape stays the same short of minor stretching, the camcoder may go out of mechanical adjustment over time. Wider DVCAM tracks make this less of a problem than narrower tracks on SP MiniDV or stupidly narrow tracks for LP MiniDV (never use).

4. Can I dub a MiniDV Tape to a DVCAM Tape without quality loss or would this not be possible? Would capturing the tape first prevent quality loss or would it make no differance?

Yes, No difference. You can copy camcorder to camcoder with IEEE-1394.

5. Are DVCAM Tapes in general the same size as MiniDV Tapes or are they the size of "Large" DV Tapes? Are these MiniDVCAM Tapes I need some obscure format or can I find them easily?

See links above. You need the Mini case always for that camcorder. MiniDV tapes will work, DVCAM and MiniDV use the same case but the high end DVCAM tapes add additional features like the the microchip that you can't use. They are downward compatible.

6. Are their DVCAM Tapes that'll fit a Sony DSRPDX10 which are greater then or equal to 83 minutes in length in DVCAM Mode or would I need to edit tapes together on an editing deck?

That is a practical limit. Avoid using LP modes and thinner tapes. Both can cause problems. Just change tapes.

7. What's a good JVC Editing Deck for MiniDV/DVCAM that'll read MiniDV Tapes recorded in DVCAM Mode? -- I don't remember the model #'s of the decks in the classroom.

I'm only familliar with SONY decks.

Here are the JVC ones.
http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/model_detail.cfm?id=500107
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/features.jsp?feature_id=01&tree=&itempath=&model_id=MDL101463

My final question is this -- Professional Panasonic MiniDV, Master Panasonic MiniDV, or MiniDVCAM for the PDX10? I need to know before I decide which to sink my money into. Unfortunately only DVCAM Mode lets me lay down time code and I need that on my tapes.
~Cyrax9~

Some argue, mixing tapes will cause chemical reactions between the lubes used by different manufacturers. Others say this was only a problem 8 years ago and the industry has standardized lubes. Urban Myth continues.