1st 8mm reel to DVD attempt

[LSchafroth]

I have the projector cleaned and ready to go. I have a JVC GRD94US MiniDV camera.

I put a piece of Glossy photo inkjet paper on the wall and put a small spacer at the bottom to create an angle to get rid of the bright spot from the bulb.

I set the camera to 1/60th shutter, set the exposure to manual "-2" otherwise any lite colored objects glowed. I set the light source to halegan then tried the MWB setting and it looked better.

The results appear to be a touch grainy but otherwise pretty good. I noticed the footage jumping up and down while being projected. Is this the projector or the nature of 8mm? I had a 8-10" wide picture on the wall.

I tried it with a 5-6" picture and the jumpiness appeared to be gone. Would shining a 2-3 foot image make the graininess go away or that something I have to live with? I have not burned to DVD and watched on teh TV. Sometimes what looks terrible on the monitor looks good on the TV.

Thanks!

LS

[Wile_E]

What kind of graininess? Can you post a screenshot here? 8-10 inches seems rather small to project and capture an 8mm film. Do you not have a projector screen? It may be best to just pay for a service to have it professionally done. The services will have a dedicated scanner to scan in each frame of film, and then they touch it up for you. This depends how much the film is worth to you.

This thread has some links to some services. Don't let your film look like what I have, of a 1941 16mm on VHS. The person that did this transfer didn't even center the projector with the camera. I'm still trying to get the original 16mm to take it to a professional.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270757

[pfh]

The little I've read about this method indicates a variable speed projector is highly recommended. This allows you to match the speed of the camcorder more precisely otherwise a strobe effect is experienced.

[LSchafroth]

Here is a picture of one of the screenshots. On the wall the picture is quite good and clear. On the camera it is very grainy. All the guides show to use a 8" projection. Maybe I iwll try a large one with a screen.



Thanks!

LS

PS the camera matches the projector quite well. Not much flicker of any kind. It's the jumping up and down I need to remove.

[INFRATOM]

Try finding out if it is from the projector. Some older projectors when you thread the film need some slack at top and bottom of the feed into the lens, otherwise will stretch the film unevenly. Also there could be break in the notch holes. Sometimes the begining and the end of the shot could have a jumpy start ,those you may have to edit out. If you explain exactly how it is jumpy and how long , is it random? and so on will help to have a better idea.

[LSchafroth]

It seems to be random. One time I played it and it appeared to be very smooth motion. The next time the people in the shot are jumping up and down like the footage it floating up and down. It's quick and sharp movements.

The projector is a Sears Du-all 8mm/Super8. It autolaods the film and pulls it through for you. Is there anywhere inside to put some silicone on to loosen it up? I do not see any holes in any of the film. no broken sprocket holes I mean. The film looks fantastic other then the jumping.

The picture is clear and great focus and good detail, but the capture is grainy and out of focus so I think I need to tweak my methods.

I think the small projection size is my grainy problem. I know the focus is how I set the camera, I must have messed up. I saw one guide with taping four sheets of matt photo paper together and doing a large projection image. I tried two sheets of glossy just to try and you cannot see the line between the sheets. I think soem of the grain could be from the glossy paper too.

LS

[INFRATOM]

sounds like it is from the mechanics part of it, if it shows ok one time and not the next. Then you need to make several captures part by part to get a good picture. Did you put focusing on manual? if it is on auto focus it could move and blur the picture.

[INFRATOM]

Also the grainy ness could be from amount of light, if your source is dark or picture is not bright enough digital cameras and camcorders become grainy. See if projector has a brighter setting for the lamp , or if you can change exposure setting in some way on the camcorder.

[BJ_M]

INFRATOM is right - not enough light is bouncing back into the camera , the camera has to be as close the line of projection and/or on axis with the projection surface ..

think light angle in equals light angle out so you set up a direct light transfer angle .. also - you surface may be not ideal ... for more contrast you may want to use not so white and glossy .. or rear project it ..

[BJ_M]

also - your camera (and/or projector) is not focused, if it has auto focus - turn it off (dv cam) , connect the camera to a TV and focus using the image on the tv

[LSchafroth]

for more contrast you may want to use not so white and glossy .. or rear project it ..

How do you reaer project it? What do I use for material to project it on?

Also, would a black box work to shine the image in and film with the camera? I appreciate all the answers!!

LS

[LSchafroth]

See if projector has a brighter setting for the lamp , or if you can change exposure setting in some way on the camcorder.

My camera let's me adjust the exposure. If I set the exposure too high it makes brighter objects on the footage glow or fade to a bright white loosing detail of that object. The whole thing was filmed at night in a church so I wonder if that particular film is just plain too dark.

LS

PS I believe the exposure setting on that pic I posted was at a "-2" where "0" is normal and "+2" would be very bright.

[LSchafroth]

Would the Deshaker filter for virtualdub be tweaked to adjust for the small jumps up and down of the footage? I tried it with default settings and noticed little difference.

LS

[LSchafroth]

The Deshaker worked like a charm.
I switched to the MSU_Denoiser with the HARD setting and used Smart Smoother. I did a deinterlace unfold and fold before and after.

Adjusted the levels and hue and saturation and it looks amazingly good!

Thanks!

LS

[Des]

Could you post another still of your final result? I am quite curious as to the end result. Also, how did it look on the TV?
The jumpiness could be caused by damage to the spockets on the original 8mm film. Some may be torn or elongated. Not much you can do (i this day and age) to repair the spockets, but it sounds like you did quite well digitally.
Also, a matte photo inkjet paper might give a slightly better and less grainy result than the glossy.

--dES

[LSchafroth]

I took the time last night to build the box they mention in this site:
http://www.dvdhomevideoeditor.com/ARTICLES/TUTORIAL_howto_trans_8mmfilm.htm

I took an old bicycle packaging box and painted it flat black, then notched it where the folds would be and made a 13" x 13" by 2' 3" deep box. I taped all the edges to conceil light and painted the outside just for looks. I found a glossy phot paper that had a very nice smooth matt finish on the back side of it. I cut that to a 4"x6" piece and taped it to the end of the box.

I aligned the projector perfectly on the sheet which was an exact match for the frame of the projector image. I put my camera, projector and box on my Bowflex seat (gotta use it for soemthing) and put the MiniDV on a little 4" tripod with flexible legs. The picture I could see through the viewfinder was much better then before. All the extra light that filled the wall and room before is now washed out by the flatt blak paint of the box and the white piece of paper glows brightly.

I will do some tests this weekend and my first project and this method later.

LS

[BJ_M]

if you can speed up your projector you will get less flicker ..

8mm was shot at 18fps , but if you play it back at 20fps it works a lot better (how its done in pro transfers btw)

btw - these guys build the equipment used by many archive places and better transfer houses..
Check out the samples they have there ... http://www.moviestuff.tv/samples.html
http://www.moviestuff.tv/baby.mpg


http://www.moviestuff.tv

[BJ_M]

also - http://www.foreverondvd.com will do transfers to your hard drive 4:4:4 10 bit uncompressed

ask for shawn

[yamato72]

Any chance you left on the image stabilization on your camcorder and that's causing the shaking? Apologies if this has already been asked but I didn't see it.

[Sillyname]

Any chance you left on the image stabilization on your camcorder and that's causing the shaking? Apologies if this has already been asked but I didn't see it.

If the camera uses electronic image stabilization, it will cause little jumpiness towards the edge of the frame. And definately needs to be turned off during capture. Optical image stabilization is okay to leave on, though.

[LSchafroth]

Any chance you left on the image stabilization on your camcorder and that's causing the shaking? Apologies if this has already been asked but I didn't see it.

No it was nto on. There is no shaking in teh digitized footage, it's from the projector istelf. I found if I hold my finger on the take up reel and slow it down or just put pressure on it the jumping goes completely away.

LS

[scowles]

I took the time last night to build the box they mention in this site:
http://www.dvdhomevideoeditor.com/ARTICLES/TUTORIAL_howto_trans_8mmfilm.htm

I am interested in building something like this but using a rear projection screen. Has anyone had any success or experience using rear projection? My idea was to get some rear screen paint (http://www.goosystems.com) and paint a sheet of glass. That way I could project from one end and film from the other. The problem I see is that the image would be reversed. This could be corrected with editing software pretty easily I assume.

Thoughts? Ideas?
Thanks
scowles

[BJ_M]

dont use glass -- just buy some rear screen material and stretch it out on a frame -- get the LEAST gain screen possible ..

you can get this through draper , dailite, stewart, screenworks , etc ... or most any AV dealer near -- you can also rent one cheap from an av dealer ..

you can shoot the 8mm off a mirror right angle to the screen and reverse the image ..

[cyflyer]

I was considering getting an old piece of cine film transfered, but wanted the best possible quality. The projector/camera combo is too lossy in quality. How do the pro houses do it, whats their method ?

[BJ_M]

there are huge detailed threads here already covering this question in depth