Blu-Ray gets 20th Century Fox Support

[Raen]

http://www.webpronews.com/news/ebusinessnews/wpn-45-20050730DVDWarsLookingForthe20thCenturyFox.html

Blu-Ray launched another offensive in the DVD war in the form of the 20th Century Fox studio. Make no bones about it; it is a war as Sony, Toshiba and all the companies who've signed off on the respective high definition formats continue to look for an edge.

Fox's home entertainment division announced its decision based on recent commitments by the Blu-Ray folks to protect copyrighted material, which is a huge point of contention for most record studios at this time. This stands to reason though since the Blu-Ray developer Sony is also a major movie company.

"We are in creative collaboration with some of the best filmmakers in the business and the most important thing to the studio is that we continue to provide the best possible presentation of our films," commented Jim Gianopulos and Tom Rothman, Chairmen, Fox Filmed Entertainment. "Creative advances in movie-making technology have consistently helped raise the bar in films today and with the Blu-ray Disc the bar has now been raised for the home viewing experience. We will take full advantage of all the creative possibilities it offers."

HD-DVD, the alternative technology developed by Toshiba has developed a following too although seemingly not as large as the Blu-Ray folks. They release a statement shortly after Fox's announcement.

Today's announcement by 20th Century Fox regarding its support of the Blu-ray Disc format is surprising and misleading in terms of which format provides for more robust copy protection.

The content protection system of HD DVD provides an equivalent level of security as the system advocated by Fox for Blu-ray. We also believe the Blu-ray disc format and proposed copy protection system may result in playability and reliability issues for the consumer.

HD DVD provides robust, renewable and standardized content protection coupled with proven reliability, cost effectiveness and flexibility, which is why many major film studios have announced support for the HD DVD format.

In Case You Don't Know

Toshiba and Sony have been in a row over the next generation DVD format for high definition playback. There are some distinct differences between the two technologies and Sony may have the edge.

What many see as the biggest difference is the storage capacity of the two discs. Each disc is made up of layers and those layers each hold a certain amount of material, be it data, mp3 or whatever. HD DVD's layer holds 15GB and Blu-Ray holds 25GB per layer.

Toshiba's plan with the HD DVD looks to be releasing a 3-layer disc of 45GB and Sony's will be two layers at 50GB. TDK, aligned with Sony, plans a 4-layer disc with 100 GB. What does all this mean, you might wonder. Well, size matters in this case. High definition video takes up a lot of space on those discs and more gigs means more content.

The advantage for Toshiba's HD DVD format will be the price point for companies using their format. Their format is based on the current DVD format and would require very little modification to current production facilities in order to being production and some companies have already announced the release of movies like "Oceans 12" for the HD DVD format.

The other factor in this is computer and games console applications, which means games mostly. With the new larger capacities, games will get extraordinarily good, loaded with incredibly high definition graphics and longer games too. Sony, who plans on releasing the PS3 sometimes next spring, plans on putting the Blu-Ray into their console. Microsoft currently has a pretty significant alliance with Toshiba and plans on putting the HD DVD into their Xbox360 console, due out during the holidays, at some point.

Also, major players in the computer industry have come out on side or the other, both in terms of hardware and software have chosen sides. Apple, HP and Dell have both sided with Sony, who makes their own computers well (what doesn't Sony make?). These companies have all said they will plug Blu-Ray products in their computers Companies like EA, who make games for both computers and consoles sided with Blu-Ray as well but Microsoft, the software king, has said they will keep their options open but they signed a technology sharing agreement with Toshiba and not with Sony.

What All This Means

Sony went through a similar battle with Panasonic a couple of decades ago over videotape formats in the VHS vs. Beta wars. Beta was actually a superior product in many ways but Panasonic handled the battle a bit better and won. Toshiba's not out for the count but a lot of companies have aligned with Sony, which is going to make life difficult for Toshiba in this battle for disc supremacy.

As this war goes on, what this means is the consumer loses. The HD DVD format will be out first, sometime this year. SOME movies will show up in the new format and other will wait as they've aligned with Sony. Your favorite video rental places will have to carry two formats to cover the movies and so will all the retailers. At this point though, you'll have Spiderman and the X-Men on Blu-Ray and you'll have Batman and the Lord of the Rings on HD-DVD. And for good measure, keep in mind the VHS will be gone when the new DVDs come out. So, what're you going to choose?

Could this be the knock out punch for HD-DVD?

[yoda313]

Hi,

At this point though, you'll have Spiderman and the X-Men on Blu-Ray and you'll have Batman and the Lord of the Rings on HD-DVD. And for good measure, keep in mind the VHS will be gone when the new DVDs come out. So, what're you going to choose?

Well they forgot to update the list to include the behemoth known as STAR WARS Now that FOX has joined BLURAY all Star Wars fans will be in the BLURAY camp (those with hdtv's that is ).

Kevin

[NiteLite]

keep in mind the VHS will be gone when the new DVDs come out. So, what're you going to choose?

Choose to stick with standard DVD as it will be yrs before the war is settled and the price point falls to mass customer acceptance levels.

Could this be the knock out punch for HD-DVD?

Not by a long shot. They're still picking sides. The war hasn't begun yet.
Wait for a winner before buying

[raffie]

keep in mind the VHS will be gone when the new DVDs come out. So, what're you going to choose?

Choose to stick with standard DVD as it will be yrs before the war is settled and the price point falls to mass customer acceptance levels.

Could this be the knock out punch for HD-DVD?

Not by a long shot. They're still picking sides. The war hasn't begun yet.
Wait for a winner before buying

- from wikipedia:

HD DVD is promoted by Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, and (most recently) Microsoft, and backed by four major film studios.

- from the official blu-ray site:

Board of Directors



Contributors

Almedio Inc.
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Digital Theater Systems Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
Eclipse Data Technologies
Electronic Arts Inc.
Fuji Photo Film Co. Ltd.
Horizon Semiconductor
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.
Moser Baer India Limited
MX Entertainment
Nero
Optodisc Technology Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Ulead Systems Inc.
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation




Members

Adobe Systems
Alpine Electronics Inc.
AMC Co. Ltd.
Anwell Technologies USA
ArcSoft Inc.
Asahi Kasei Microsystems Co., Ltd.
ATI Technologies Inc.
Bandai Visual Co. Ltd.
BenQ Corporation
B.H.A. Corporation
Ciba Specialty Chemicals Inc.
Conexant Systems Inc.
D&M holdings, Inc.
Daewoo Electronics Corporation
Degussa
Elpida Memory, Inc.
ESS Technology Inc.
Expert Magnetics Corp.
Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
IMAGICA Corp.
Imation Corp.
Infomedia Inc.
Intersil Corporation
Kadokawa Holdings Inc.
Konica Minolta Opto Inc.
Laser Pacific Media Corp.
Lead Data Inc.
LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP
Linn Products Ltd.
LINTEC Corporation
M2 Engineering AB
Maxim Integrated Products
Memorex Products Inc.
Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd.
Nan Ya Plastics Corporation
Newtech Infosystems Inc.
NEXAPM Systems Technology Inc.
Nightjar LLC
Nikkatsu Corporation
NTT Electronics Corporation
nVidia Corporation
Onkyo Corporation
Ono Sokki Co., Ltd.
OPT Corporation
PowerFile
Ritek Corporation
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
SDI Media America
Shinano Kenshi Co. Ltd.
Singulus Technologies
STEAG ETA-OPTIK GmbH
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Tao Group Limited
Targray Technology International Inc.
TEAC Corporation
Teijin Chemicals Ltd.
Toei Video Company Ltd.
Toho Company, Ltd.
Toppan Printing Co., Ltd.
TOPTICA Photonics AG
UmeDisc Ltd.
Unaxis Balzer AG
VDL-ODMS
Vidiom Systems Corporation
Vivendi Universal Games
Yamaha Corporation
Yokogawa Electric Corporation
3oh!5 Creative, Inc.


You see how everybody who's in the industry backs blu-ray (aka people who know what and why the **** they back a format)? Probably the most important reason that some film studios back HD-DVD is the NAME sounds familiar to them. :P

PS: also note that Microsoft also provides a codec for blu-ray, and how Sanyo is also somewhere in the Blu-ray list.

[QuaiBoy]

...You see how everybody who's in the industry backs blu-ray (aka people who know what and why the **** they back a format)? Probably the most important reason that some film studios back HD-DVD is the NAME sounds familiar to them. :P

PS: also note that Microsoft also provides a codec for blu-ray, and how Sanyo is also somewhere in the Blu-ray list.

I'm sure that will be of great solice to them when customers refuse to migrate to one of these "amazing" new formats due to one of the following:
1. Confusion - two choices for "similar" (in the eyes of the general consumer) technology is one choice too many.
2. Incompatibility - can't wait for the complaints when the spanking-new player won't work with the six-month old HDTV due to the copyright protection. Of course, a lot of these boobs will probably still sing the praises of the new technology even though their $1k player is downsampling the signal to DVD format and they don't even realize it. Idiots... what a waste.
To add insult to injury, some movies will work with one player some with another. That's enough to kill them both right there.
3. Benefit - The manufacturers are talking mostly about putting more "extras" on the media. They're worried enough about protection, doubt the picture quality is going to even be that much better than a DVD. Personally, I filter out all that crap when I make a backup (including the menus). Don't have time/patience to sit through junk waiting for my movie. Most recent migrants from the VHS world to DVD agree.

I'll be buying a PC writer for Internet data backups and the like because that's a lot of my job - making sure nothing is lost. DVDs barely make the cut in storage at this point. Doubt I'll be buying a new player until one technology is declared a winner. The key will be a dual-format player of modest cost QUICKLY when the formats come to the market (if such a product is even feasable - technologically or otherwise). That's got to be in the best interest of the manufacturers.

-Evan-

[raffie]

The points you made are noted, but a dual format player will never exist simply because there is no actual contest. There are many reasons for that, the most obvious 1 wich will be quite visible in a few months is the PS3. Many people will have a blu-ray player already sitting right there in front of them. Another reason is the point i tried to make in my previous post.

People like to call this a 'format war' and compare it with VHS vs Betamax. In reality this is more like VHS vs Video2000. There's no 'format war', simply more than 1 format has been developed, as happens (almost) ALWAYS when a format is on its last legs. But once players and movies are in the stores, HD-DVD will disappear like DCC.

[NiteLite]

But once players and movies are in the stores, HD-DVD will disappear like DCC.

Oh, so you're a full Blue-ray supporter. Thats explains the 1st post as you were losing me.
Call it what you will. Remember the CD-format war? Ah, how quickly we forget. It is indeed a war between two HD-DVD providers.
Who wins I dont really give a rat's derriere . I support neither side as to the reason ...Sometime in 2006 and not before either a compromise will be made or both formats will break out (maybe by the end of 2006...) and the only losers will be the consumer until the price points hit low enough to allow the consumer to pick the survivor.
Early adopters will not decide this one. Just as they did not decide the Beta-VHS one.
Maybe they will allow the combo units as did SACD / DVD-A and for less than $200.
I still think this decision will not be made for a long time. And again when technology is reaching this level I dont care. Really, is there that big of a difference between the two?

[raffie]

Oh, so you're a full Blue-ray supporter.

Supporter? naaah. I don't work for any of the blu-ray listed companies nor do I have stock in any of them :P .
I just see the facts that are in front of me and draw the logical conclusions.

[yoda313]

Hi,

Really, is there that big of a difference between the two?

I think bluray has about 8 extra gigs of space than hddvd. THAT is a big difference in terms of quality in compressing a video source.

And for the home recordable market space is the main factor. Once they become readily available blu-ray will probably win outright because of the extra storage space alone.

Kevin

[BobK]

THAT is a big difference in terms of quality in compressing a video source.

...blu-ray will probably win outright because of the extra storage space alone.

If you're saying that blu-ray will win outright because it will have a better quality picture then we'll have to explain why VHS won over Beta.

[the future]

HD-DVD: single layer = 15 GB, dual layer = 30 GB. Recordable: single layer only. Dual layer maybe sometime in the future.
Blu-ray: single layer = 25 GB, dual layer = 50 GB. Recordable: dual layer from day one.
Reason HD-DVD is even considered: TimeWarner and Toshiba want to perpetuate their DVD patent pool to HD media.
Winner: Blu-ray, if there is any logic to this game.

Oh, and both formats will look dramatically better than DVD as not only do they have more storage space but also use more advanced video compression codecs (h.264 and vc-1 vs. mpeg2).

[yoda313]

Hi,

VHS won over Beta

Wasn't part of it becuase vhs introduced longer recording tapes before beta? You could only get two hours on a beta if I remember right. And you could do 6 hours on sp/ep mode on vhs. That will be a similar deal with bluray. More disc space will mean more recording space for home use.

Kevin

[NiteLite]

Hi,

VHS won over Beta

Wasn't part of it becuase vhs introduced longer recording tapes before beta? You could only get two hours on a beta if I remember right. And you could do 6 hours on sp/ep mode on vhs. That will be a similar deal with bluray. More disc space will mean more recording space for home use.

Kevin

I think Beta made it up to 4 hrs. but still the 6 hr. VHS with Matshushita behind it won the day.
Maybe it will come down to "recording time"???. I'm all for that as I hate compression of most any kind, especially in the audio side.
The only downside is even though I own a Sony SACD I really hate the way Sony has done it's customers with lower quality control, 90 day warranties on multi-thousand dollar products and worst of all the out-sourcing to many countries with less than quality as a priority.
Anyway bottom line, I hope one side wins out to avoid spliting players for different studios. Either one will probably be more than enough to be satisfied with.
As I stated above I wont be an early adopter with this format.
Enjoyed the banter everyone.
Regards,
NL

[Mythos2002]

I've always thought that Beta had better video quality, but some places I have read said no. In my eyes it did look better to me. One of the main reasons I think Beta lost to VHS was because Sony was too greedy to let other manufacturers make blank tapes for Beta at a reasonable price. So, it was harder to get a Beta blank tape than VHS since many companies made blank VHS tapes.

This link http://www.totalrewind.org/ has some very interesting information regarding VHS and Beta. It doesn't mention anything about what I said about the blank tapes, so I could be totally wrong about that.


This link and the quoted text from that link talks about quality. I've never owned a Beta, but a friend did and it looked better to me.
http://www.totalrewind.org/sidebars/F_beta_frame.htm

Speaking of quality, you will often hear Betamax fans claiming that Beta was technically better than VHS. However, on closer inspection this turns out to be something of a myth; an advantage Beta might have had was quickly matched by VHS, and anyway was only apparent using sophisticated test equipment. In fact, independant tests of picture quality at the time actually put VHS ahead, the scores over four tests being VHS: 2, Beta: 1, No difference: 1. This urban legend probably reflects Sony's marketing rather than any actual quantifiable difference.

As for Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, I think HD-DVD has to gain a lot of ground. I don't think either format is going to take off as fast as DVD did. If the rumor about having to have HDMI inputs or outputs on your HDTV (most made more than two years ago don't) to get full HD resolution is true, than I know it is going to be a tough sale. I have flip flopped about which format I like better. Right now I like Blu-Ray better since TDK came up with the polymer to help protect Blu-Ray discs from becoming due to being scratched too much. Microsoft is a big player, but if the X-Box 360 doesn't use HD-DVD, then I see another big win for Blu-Ray since many will buy it and the PS3. However, the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player as was mentioned already, so Blu-Ray will have a huge market impact.

According to this link http://www.dvd-recordable.org/Article2129.phtml Japanese developers are already complaining that it is going to be hard to put out HD games on the X-Box 360 since it can only hold 9Gb on its discs. I think if the X-Box would be HD-DVD compatible, it would slightly help the format in its battle with Blu-Ray. However, the blockheads at Microsoft believe it is better to keep the X-Box standard DVD.

Mythos