Pioneer 109 with +R and -R media

[willrob]

I'm one of the rooup who have been complaining about the lack of true 16x writing speed in the 109. Yesterday while running terminal to update my firmware, I did the drutial routine and read the specs the drive itself reports to the system.

Even though I haven't burned (or even bought) any DL media, I assumed—since Mac has always been a -R environment—that whenthe time came I'd get -DL discs. But it seems the 109 doesn't really support them, even with the latest firmware.

Over on the CDFreaks website, there seems to be (among the PC users) a belief that even with single sided discs +R media has faster writing times. I've tried Verbatium 16x media (-R) which they all swear by (+R version), but my drive writes to it slower than to 8X media.

So I'm wondering if any 109 users have tried any brand of 16X +R media and have gotten writing results in the 3-4 minute range? Of course the couple of minutes difference isn't all that important, it's just that I wold like to think my drive is working properly (dependably) and since Pioneer seems to think it should be writing at 16X, I'm trying to digure out why mine isn't.

I suspect the optical bus speed on the Mac is also an issue (ATA-33), but still haven't rewired things to test this out.

[lumis]

i've tried some maxell 16x dvd+r media, i was unimpressed.. it took 5 minutes to write 4.34gb of data (dvd-video).. i usually use 8x maxell media that burns at 12x speed, and it burns a full disc in 6 to 7 minutes. at the current prices, it's just really not worth it to me.

and as far as dvd-r VS dvd+r, i say as long as you're using good media (japanese made), i think you'll be just fine.

[chikanakan]

I have some 16x DVD+R media and the Pioneer 109 with firmware 1.55. If I connect the drive to the internal ATAPI bus, I can burn a disc in less them 6 minutes. It was about 5:50. If I connect the drive to a firewire case, the burn to much longer.

I've found out that the Oxford 911 (you may have a different bridge) does not have UMDA turned on by default. Is you use the tool to turn on UMDA on the bridge chip, the firewire box will burn just as fast.

Any speed problems in firewire cases is the box. If the UMDA setting aren't changed, the box only supports up to 8x and always buffer underruns.

[willrob]

I don't have an external case. I was thinking that my G4's internal optical bus—where the 109 is curently installed—is only about an ATA-33 speed. It was suggested on xcelerateyourmac.com that one could plug the drive into one of the hard drive busses (I have four total, two ATA-100 and two ATA-66) . I've filled all those ports with hard disks, so I've been reluctant to unplug one to test the throughput issue.

PC users are always advising each other to make sure they are on their fastest bus and using an 80 pin cable. Basically for the 109 to reach the 16x speeds, the data has to be delivered to the drive faster than I can currently do it via ATA-33.

[chikanakan]

Yes, you would need the ATA-100 or 66 bus to hand that speed. Why Apple shipped ATA-33 is beyond me. Even their own drives didn't work well. I'm using a G5 which as the faster bus.

[Ladd]

Would installing an inexpensive PCI ATA-XXX card aid in resolving your burning-speed issue?

[willrob]

It might. I've not been able to find any info about that kind of set-up. While I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, I'm always willing to be proven wrong.

[lordsmurf]

16x is 5-6 minutes to write.
That is as "true 16x" as it's going to get on ANY drive.

Mac has a slower interface, as I hear it, so no, you're limited by your hardware to not get "true 16x" but rather something far slower because the hardware causes underruns.

[chikanakan]

Well, the reason 16x isn't possible is because the drive simply does not support 16x. This has been discussed before, but the drive supports CAV, not CLV. CLV would mean the drive starts at 16x and ends at 16x. CLV starts at 8x and speeds up to 16x only on the outer edge.

It's technology not possible to burn 16x CLV because the RPM are so high the media will probably shatter. Same reason 52x CLV is not possible.

5-6 minutes is as good at it will get (but I have burned under 5 minutes on an BenQ and Lite-on drive)