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  1. I just bought a complete PC from Dell (2.8GHz, 512MB DDR memory, 6 USB2 ports, 40GB SATA drive + 17" flat panel monitor) all for 550$ + tax (free shipping). The 17" monitor alone worth almost 200$. And the PC has a 12 months warranty.

    I used to buy barebone systems in the past and add in components (HDD, video, etc..). I just look at the price of barebone system (same config as the Dell system above), the total cost come out to be outrageous, at least 60% more than the complete system.

    I can't justtify to buy barebone systems anymore.

    Does any of you still have good reasons for buying barebone system ?
    I like to hear your points of view.
    ktnwin - PATIENCE
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  2. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I bought a EMACHINE last fall at the Best Buy "after thanksgiving" sale. Great deal too...

    I guess I just lost my motivation to build my own system. Too much to coordinate. Plus if you don't already have a full version of an OS you have to buy that seperately.

    Not to mention the headaches of getting everything installed properly....

    No thanks - let them do it

    Kevin
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  3. Member glockjs's Avatar
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    60% more?

    newegg...
    preshott 2.8 800fsb 775 $159
    msi 915g onboard vid $88
    g skill pc3200 2x256 dual channel $64.50
    seagate 80gb sata barracuda w/ ncq $70
    antec case w/ 350w $55
    cmv 17" lcd $196
    win xp home $93


    total: $725.50....$175.50 more for a system with brand name components that have warrantys that range from a min of 1yr to 5yrs. dual channel+ncq hdd. wanna see how the benchmarks come out? dell uses the absolute cheapest parts out there. you get what u pay for...sorry

    edit just wanted to note you could do the cheapest mobo with onboard vid for $47.50. 1 stick of 512 mb pc3200 for $40. 40gb sata for $60. maybe a cheaper case....which would still be better than the dell components
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    I prefer to build it myself.
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  5. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    I prefer to build it myself.

    as glockjs said dell uses cheap components for their pcs which is why they can price their pcs so darn cheap.
    i've built systems that cost between $600-$800 using good quality components. and much better than what dell has to offer in terms of the brands of components they use which is cheapo stuff!
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  6. Not to mention that, generally speaking, you cant upgrade complete systems very much. Many of them have integraded peripherals (video and sound usually). So as technology gets better, your stays the same.

    Just my two cents

    LG
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  7. Member waheed's Avatar
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    My vote goes for Barebone, You have EXACTLY what you want in your PC.
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  8. Member lumis's Avatar
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    dell does have some good deals, and if you get a decent warranty with it (until the computer becomes obselete), then its kind of a tossup.

    a friend of mine purchased a dell system for $550 after rebate. he got;

    2.8ghz p4
    512mb ram
    80gb hdd
    48x cd-rw (dvd burner upgrade was ridiculous @ $109)
    intergrated video, sound, & lan.
    17'' lcd flat panel display
    windows xp home (upgraded to xp pro)
    mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc..


    thats a pretty damned good deal for a complete system, especially with the monitor.

    although i still build my own system, those dell systems are a pretty damned good deal.
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  9. I think it also depends on what your going to use the computer for. Ifyour getting a PC to surf the net, download music, chat, word processing, etc, etc .. then a Dell package PC is a pretty good route to go.

    If your video editing, encoding, photo editing, etc, etc then building your own PC is a way better idea
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    When my stepson wanted a PC I strongly recomended a DELL, but I built mine from the bottom up. I get more controle over what goes into my PC that way but best of all I don't get call to come fix his. Some people like tuning their car while others just want to know that it's going to get them where they're going.
    Big Government is Big Business.. just without a product and at twice the price... after all if the opposite of pro is con then wouldn’t the opposite of progress be congress?
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  11. As I mentioned, I bought only two complete systems (one in 1995 and just now), I built about 5 others. This time, I try to build one more but the total expense is around 900$ (I dont' have to buy disk drives,got plenty of them,the latest). The new Dell system will be used for video capturing/editing makeing DVD, etc..besides surfing the Web.
    I only have to add a DVDwriter (60$) and a Firewire card (15$).
    I already have one for this video stuff, it's only 1.2GHz.
    Cheap components are obtained thru large quantity order (by Dell) and may not mean low quality. We normally pay a bit more as we buy in qty = 1.
    That's what I thought.
    I agreed that I am stucked with the built in audio/video, however I am not playing PC games. So that should be alright.
    Anyway, I hear all your voices.
    ktnwin - PATIENCE
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  12. Does your $550 Dell have an AGP slot?

    I would think AGP is critical for serious video work.
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  13. contrarian rallynavvie's Avatar
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    Surprsingly enough a powerful video card isn't required for video work much at all. If your onboard supports the resolutions you want to view at (which is fixed for LCDs anyway) then you don't need to keep updating to the latest and greatest video card, that is as long as your onboard doesn't fight with your other hardware or your OS which shouldn't be a problem with XP.

    I think, given some of the sales on OEM computers, that low-end or very entry-level systems are probably favoring the OEMs like Dell, Gateway, and such. The other advantage to said systems is the option of having support at all times. I've noticed that most folks capable of building their own machine are also capable enough to fix that machine, be it hardware or software issues, so support tends to be a non-issue for those people. However when you look at high-end machines you're spending a lot more on OEMs than to build it yourself, and unfortunately the quality of these systems just doesn't seem to dictate that sort of price increase.

    A quick visit to Dell shows a system similar to mine for $3800 without any additional design software. Mine has more IDE hard disk space, some SCSI, a slightly better video card that what I chose on the Dell site, and both Adobe CS Pro and the Video Suite all for about that same price. If I could add those extra components to the Dell list it would probably cost better than $5500. Also I've got pretty much the best components in all categories so I know my system will be rock solid, something Dell would have to back with a warranty instead. If something happens I'm fairly certain I can fix it or RMA it in short order, and certainly worth the savings.

    Summation: OEMs are great for novice users and basic machines, custom built PCs are better for experienced users to get the most for their money.
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  14. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Originally Posted by lucifers_ghost
    Not to mention that, generally speaking, you cant upgrade complete systems very much. Many of them have integraded peripherals (video and sound usually). So as technology gets better, your stays the same.
    You can BYPASS the integrated video/sound!!!

    I did it when I bought my RADEON. Just go into the bios setup and switch from onboard to pci (in my instance it was from agp to pci since there is no agp port in this computer).

    The only regret I have is no AGP slot..... Other than that it is quite excellent

    Kevin
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  15. Member glockjs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yoda313
    Hello,

    Originally Posted by lucifers_ghost
    Not to mention that, generally speaking, you cant upgrade complete systems very much. Many of them have integraded peripherals (video and sound usually). So as technology gets better, your stays the same.
    You can BYPASS the integrated video/sound!!!

    I did it when I bought my RADEON. Just go into the bios setup and switch from onboard to pci (in my instance it was from agp to pci since there is no agp port in this computer).

    The only regret I have is no AGP slot..... Other than that it is quite excellent

    Kevin
    the only prob with that is pci is a severe handicap compared to agp when it comes to vid cards. and like your machine alot of premades dont even come with an agp slot
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  16. Fair enough. You can bypass. But I was actually looking at it more from the vantage point that rally had.

    I assume, I guess through my own snobbishness, that if someone goes out and buys a prebuilt, then they will generally not have the knowledge to build their own. Not always true, but I would think more often than not. While it is not hard to change a vid/sound card, put a PC in front of my mom and she cant even turn it on .. as sad as that is. I do tech support for an internet company and its insane how little people know about computers. I would be willing to be that 99.5% of the people calling in here bought prebuilt because they have no knowledge.

    Again, this is a crass generalization, but its one that I bet isnt THAT far from the truth.

    I just didnt make myself clear I do that .. lol

    LG
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  17. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lucifers_Ghost
    Fair enough. You can bypass. But I was actually looking at it more from the vantage point that rally had.

    I assume, I guess through my own snobbishness, that if someone goes out and buys a prebuilt, then they will generally not have the knowledge to build their own. Not always true, but I would think more often than not. While it is not hard to change a vid/sound card, put a PC in front of my mom and she cant even turn it on .. as sad as that is. I do tech support for an internet company and its insane how little people know about computers. I would be willing to be that 99.5% of the people calling in here bought prebuilt because they have no knowledge.

    Again, this is a crass generalization, but its one that I bet isnt THAT far from the truth.

    I just didnt make myself clear I do that .. lol

    LG
    Hello,



    I HAVE KNOWLEDGE!

    I'm just lazy :P :P :P



    Kevin
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  18. Member glockjs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lucifers_Ghost
    Fair enough. You can bypass. But I was actually looking at it more from the vantage point that rally had.

    I assume, I guess through my own snobbishness, that if someone goes out and buys a prebuilt, then they will generally not have the knowledge to build their own. Not always true, but I would think more often than not. While it is not hard to change a vid/sound card, put a PC in front of my mom and she cant even turn it on .. as sad as that is. I do tech support for an internet company and its insane how little people know about computers. I would be willing to be that 99.5% of the people calling in here bought prebuilt because they have no knowledge.

    Again, this is a crass generalization, but its one that I bet isnt THAT far from the truth.

    I just didnt make myself clear I do that .. lol

    LG

    i agree but not 100%...i dont feel all that sorry for most of those people. most if not all the time those type of people dont take time to learn. my family is a good example. i dont know how many times i've walked them through the same damn steps to do the same damn thing. im at the point where i yell at them to pay attention when im telling them what to do. and they've actually picked up on a few things. most people dont want to learn, they just want a quick fix and move on and think they can ask for help anytime they need if something does come up.
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  19. Summation: OEMs are great for novice users and basic machines, custom built PCs are better for experienced users to get the most for their money.
    I don't quite agree with this statement.

    There are a third group of users, I would called them professional users. Let me explain, these are the folks to are computer/peripherals design engineers. Certainly besides the ability to built a PC from parts, they also have a deep understanding of how things work inside a PC, how to measure performance and other quality factors of the PC.

    In the past few years, most of experienced and professional users build their own PC. Nowadays, these pre-built from Dell, HP, cost a lot less than home built system. Friends of mine at work [BTW, we design PC hard disk drives] mostly buy Dell PCs (or prebuilt) as we know we have: reliabilty, support, expandabilty.

    My son who love PC games, spent 60% more money on his home built PC (very much same config + high end graphic card) and the performance of his sytem in other areas are lower than my new one.
    ktnwin - PATIENCE
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  20. contrarian rallynavvie's Avatar
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    I disagree with OEMs being "expandable". When I tried upgrading my Dell internet machine from a GF3 to a GF4 I couldn't fit it in the AGP slot because the card was so deep it ran into the IDE controller and wouldn't seat properly in the slot. I called Dell to have them troubleshoot it since they said it was OK to upgrade the video card and they gave me a line about how I had to order a new video card through them. The GF4 I bought wasn't on sale or anything and cost me $240. The GF4 upgrade option through Dell was a 4200 as opposed to the 4400 I bought and it would have cost me $280. Later I upgraded it to a GFX when it wouldn't work with my 2460 and I found I couldn't because the GFX drew more power than the 250W PSU could supply. Couldn't upgrade it to a branded 350W because Dell uses proprietary power connectors and only one brand I know of makes OEM PSU replacements for Dells, and though they are VERY quality PSUs I just didn't want to shell out that much for an internet machine. Expandable, perhaps, but costly when done through their proper channels.

    As for reliability with Dell I have mixed results. My plain jane internet box from them (I bought it for school so I could have the warranty) has lasted three years running F@H the last two constantly and it hasn't whined until recently it toasted the PSU and most of the rest of the system. It was replaced in about a week. However at work I am forced to use Dell workstations, somewhat high-end machines at that. They are constantly having hardware failures and the entire workstation would be lucky to last 3 months without being down for a few days. That is not reliable, especially for a business, yet we deal with them for the warranty. My homebuilts have been cooking hard for years and other than the failure of my 2460 (which I knew would happen eventually) I've never had a PC down for more than a few minutes to fix it.

    Support indeed favors OEMs with warranties though, and that's why I said they were great for novice users. I would never pay Dell's outrageous sums for high-end workstations like I use at home if they're anything as reliable as the "workstations" we use at work, warranty or not. Their servers are solid though, but I think that's probably because they use rebranded Intel hardware.
    FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming
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  21. Lets not forget that Dell's home tech support isn't worth paying for. Since its been outsourced to India I have a hard time getting a hold of anyone I can actually understand. They just recently did the small business support the same way. Can't say for sure on large scale businesses. And with Dell I find you absolutely need to hardware warranty. I have yet to see a Dell after my old XPS300 that hasn't needed hardware replaced at some point.
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  22. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Originally Posted by rallynavvie
    disagree with OEMs being "expandable"
    Umm..... I guess that means I didn't upgrade to a PCI ATI RADEON 9250 graphics card from the integrated video on the motherboard then hmm?????

    :P :P :P

    Look of course everyone is going to have different experiences. They don't make cases univeral so you can slide ANYTHING in it. But I was able to fit my trusty WINTV PVR 250 into my emachine no problem. And added my dvd burner just fine.

    It's NOT AS CUSTOMIZABLE as a home built system where you can choose every aspect but it doesn't diminish its cost savings and ease of setup.

    Kevin

    --though I will say I may someday buy a new case and drop in my existing components so I can buy a agp - or pci-express 3d card..... --
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  23. When talking about reliability, one needs to consider the ratio of failures compared to the number of systems.

    Certainly anything can fail, it's a question of how often they fail. I mean, how many Dell's PC buyers are unhappy because their systems broke so easily.

    I only use Dell systems for the last 3 years and the two I got still run like a champ, never had any kind of reliability issues and they are used at work very extensively with lot of applications opened and run at the same time. Some apps even run in multi threads mode (therefore maximizing CPU usage to 100%).

    I have bought barebone systems (and add peripherals myself), overall, I did not save much, and one of those systems had the memory stick going bad causing the system un-bootable. Lucky have I life time warranty on the memory sticks and get them to replace (for just 60 cent of shipping cost) and my PC came back up in 4 days.

    I agree that "expandability" could be somewhat limited for some due to the internal layout inside the box. I have not run into it yet. I opened these Dell's PC (3 different models so far), never had trouble to add anything that I need into it (HDD, DVD, network card, etc...).
    ktnwin - PATIENCE
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  24. Originally Posted by yoda313
    Originally Posted by Lucifers_Ghost
    Fair enough. You can bypass. But I was actually looking at it more from the vantage point that rally had.

    I assume, I guess through my own snobbishness, that if someone goes out and buys a prebuilt, then they will generally not have the knowledge to build their own. Not always true, but I would think more often than not. While it is not hard to change a vid/sound card, put a PC in front of my mom and she cant even turn it on .. as sad as that is. I do tech support for an internet company and its insane how little people know about computers. I would be willing to be that 99.5% of the people calling in here bought prebuilt because they have no knowledge.

    Again, this is a crass generalization, but its one that I bet isnt THAT far from the truth.

    I just didnt make myself clear I do that .. lol

    LG
    Hello,



    I HAVE KNOWLEDGE!

    I'm just lazy :P :P :P



    Kevin
    Many online shoppers offer the 'system build' option for a little extra - you select the components and parts, add the option 'Let us build and configure the system for you' (or some such thing) and they will deliver the system completely built n ready for you.

    This is like going through the middle route.
    *** My computer can beat me at chess, but is no match when it comes to kick-boxing. ***
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  25. Nowadays a self-built system tends to cost more because all parts that you are buying are at RETAIL price. Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. single source their parts, able to place volume orders and get massive discounts. Plus the specs they offer may not be what you wanted but you are stuck with it - low spec Mobo, onboard garphics, low RAM on garphics, lower speed RAM, etc.

    As already pointed out earlier, this will not affect typical business/office applications, internet surfing, etc. So ultimately the decision should be based on 'end-use'. Do not go for an overkill - a 256MB nVidia GeForce 5500+ card is not necessarily better than an a simple 64MB onboard graphics option - IF the end-use is, say Word Processing.

    Quality is "conformance to requirements". No one doubts the quality of a $500 plus leather clad briefcase made by Pierrie Cardin or Delsey - but it is ridiculous to use it for shopping at the local supermarket.
    *** My computer can beat me at chess, but is no match when it comes to kick-boxing. ***
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  26. Member thevoelk's Avatar
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    If you feel like going through the hassle of rebates, go to tigerdirect and sign up for their email listing. Every day or so, you'll get some emails with their specials, which are usually after rebates. A lot of people have had issue with them in the past, but it's over the rebates from what I can tell, not their shipping, prices, etc. In the end, you've most likely built a better computer for about the same price as a equivalent Dell.

    Another thing to try is a local computer show. I've gotten great deals by haggling with a vendor toward the end of the show. A lot of them just don't feel like putting the stuff back on a truck. Several times I've knocked $200 or more off of a high end workstation I was building by doing this. The downside, most of the best stuff has been sold out.
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  27. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    I go through the "customize and buy" routine from Dell (via AOL) quite often just out of curiosity and noticed that they really screw you on the optional extras. They cost many times what you would pay to install your own. And is a DVD-writer really an 'optional extra' for someone in this forum anyway?

    While you're at it, just try encoding a DVD with TMPGEnc using a Celeron and see how long it takes?

    My local PC shop is by no means 'cheap' but they charge a lot less for a same-spec machine as Dell.
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  28. Dell mini towers (clam shell) (not slimline models) upgrade just as easy as any other computer I've worked on. If not easeir!

    Upgrades to a 4300 over the past 2 1/2 years
    new CPU
    added RAM
    new ATI aiw AGP vid card (it also has onboard Intel vid)
    new HDDs
    new DVD-RWs
    added Firewire/USB2 card
    added SCSI card
    added Tape drive
    added 21" monitor

    I do a lot of video work and I have yet to have any problems with my hardware that I've installed or upgraded. Look at what I've added, tell me that their PSUs are under rated. People just like to gripe about Dell like they do about Microsoft. It's called jealousy

    BTW, if you buy a Dell, I would seriously look at the refurbs first. That's how I got mine
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  29. Member waheed's Avatar
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    Dell don't do AMD, do they?
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  30. Let's face it. This is a guy thing. How many women build their own PCs, how many of them in this thread?

    Answer: very few.

    Reason? Just like we love to tinker with our car or motorbike, build hot rods, we can build our own pc and tinker with it endlessly. We just love to see what's in the box, we love going out to buy the components and argue which component is better. Any guy who builds his own pc knows what I m talking about.

    From an economic perspective: there is little or no advantage. One, though, springs to mind: the knowledge you gain from building your own PC means that down the road, you can keep upgrading a machine one component at a time and keep it at a good performance level. I have had the same casing for 5 years, and keep upgrading individual components as and when needed (too often obviously . No need to re-build an entire CPU.
    Problems, when they occur, are solved very quickly, cos I know my machine inside out.
    All the components that go in are chosen careful - lots of thinking goes into it.

    Main advantage: the pride you have in knowing that you have built a reasonably complex piece of machinery yourself, that you have a machine complitely designed to meet your needs, that you can repair and upgrade it yourself. You know what s under the hood.

    Plus you can gloat and make fun of your unfortunate friends who buy PCs made by Dell
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