Did Hollywood steal the Matrix and Terminator?

[kabanero]

Quote:

"Third Eye In the Matrix of the Terminator
Sophia Stewart, the FBI and the Matrix Scandal

Have you ever watched a movie and thought, or said, "This was written by a Black person." Whether or not the film had Black actors or a Black theme, you felt a cultural connection or emotional flavor that only someone of African descent could have created. Well, as it turns out, there is a multibillion dollar lawsuit successfully circulating through the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles regarding the blockbuster Matrix and Terminator movies."

Articles:

http://press.namct.com/content/view/1471/9/

http://www.popandpolitics.com/articles_detail.cfm?articleID=1494

http://booksandwords.com/#InsideStory

[BJ_M]

dominant presence of Black characters

in the terminator? where ?

anyway - having read the book a long time ago, I could see the matrix being an issue ... interesting case ..

that they already made one offer, shows there is some merit possibly in this ..

[presto]

Many other media productions from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to music videos, comedies, video games, animated films, and dog food commercials copied concepts that were originally conceived and written in Stewart's writings. If you recognized the spiritual, social and metaphysical themes at the base of all the dialogue, technology and fantastical effects, then you are among the many who really understood Stewart's message

All creative activity is based on previous works. How many movies were inspired by Arthur C Clark? The above paragraph makes it sound like she has a pretty weak case.

[maldb]

This has to be without a doubt, the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If it wasn't because we're in June, I'd say it was an April Fool's joke.

Talk about mind-boggling stupidity.

[edDV]

Any time any art or technology has success, one is forced to deal with the barrage of prior art claims. It's on of the list of bread and butter scams for tort (not patent) lawyers. Maybe fractional 1% of claims have validity. The result is we all have to endure legal costs for fighting this crap in every product we buy.

It is a heavy tax if you add it up.

[johns0]

This has to be without a doubt, the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If it wasn't because we're in June, I'd say it was an April Fool's joke.

Talk about mind-boggling stupidity.

Have you read the book?Lots of people have had their ideas stolen from them by these big companies,only reason you might think its stupid is how can such big names do this kind of thing.

[lumis]

why was this made in to a race issue, an attempt to give it more merit?

[edDV]

Many people have ideas. These are worthless unless one creates a working prototype and patents it .

Actually, the patent law doesn't actually require that it works, but that it serves the intended purpose.

Copyright law is very specific. PR releases won't float.

Tort challenges are shakedowns for $$$ settlement to avoid court costs. A legal mafia tactic.

"multibillion dollar lawsuit" give me a break and get a job.

[Deku Scrub]

why was this made in to a race issue, an attempt to give it more merit?

Very good point.

The idea that these films could only have been created by someone of African descent is mind-blowingly idiotic and racist.

[adam]

I read about this a while back. Most of the things she says were copied are just general themes which cannot be copyrighted. Her main contention are that the characters were copied, but some of her reasoning is downright idiotic regarding names and such. It reminds me of the episode of King of Queens where the dad thinks the Peanuts cartoon is a rippoff of his life. "If you take my nickname and drop the T and add a Y and move this and that it spells SNOOPY!"

I also read one of her interviews where she brags about being too smart to let the statute of limitations run because she didn't have notice and therefore falls under the notice rule...but then admits that someone told her the movie was infringing and she ignored it. I bet anything that interview is used in court to get the case thrown out regarding Terminator. According to her own admissions the statute of limitations DID run. The Matrix might be harder to get rid of.

Hollywood definitely does ripoff other peoples stories alot, and I don't mean just borrowing unprotected ideas I mean actual infringement. Its hard to prove though.

[Gargoyle]

That's funny, I always thought that a lot of the ideas / elements of "The Matrix" were a rip-off of William Gibsons "Neuromancer " - maybe he stole them from "The Third Eye"!!

[ybeard]

If I read it correctly, she's sure The Terminator was ripped off yet she's never seen it? ??

[misterchuckles]

There's not a single credible web site out there that acknowledges this story...I wouldn't put any stock in this crock. She claims she coined the phrase, "I'll be back." Jackasses are crying to the US government to patent and copyright full sentences.

[DereX888]

The Matrix general idea was well-written in '60s or 70's in a novel by some eastern-european writer, at least that was my thought. I don't remember his/her name or the title, it was in one of those old 'anthology of sci-fi' 70's books or something like that I think.

To cut the story short it was something like this: guy was living his regular life until some "glitch" appeared for few seconds. He started to analyze everything, finally he got to the conclusion he must be in some sort of coma, and 'real live' is not real, while in the 'real reality' he was just one of the many other human brains held in some lab, where all his nerves/senses were fed appropiate information from computers... basically a 'matrix'
So whats new LOL

Have you ever watched a movie and thought, or said, "This was written by a Black person."

If anything: only "rap" and broken english speak is what comes to mind whenever I think of what would I take as "written by a Black (American) person", unfortunately
But seriously:
I never knew Black person would write i.e. a movie so differently than the Red, Brown, Yellow or White person... Although person's skin color varies according to his race, I always thought human brains (as all other guts) perform basically same tasks, and they all have exactly same colors, regardless of 'outside skin color' - aka race...

Well, this is one of the most racist claims of modern times in my opinion.

As anything when it comes to American Blacks, I suspect that deep-down it is all as usual about slavery and bad White Men...
Since nowaday race relations (not only in USofA) are tied with politics I have no comments on this subject

[spiderman2k1]

James Cameron wrote the Terminator. The two brother I forgot their name wrote the Matrix. Who ever these people are why wait so long to bring it up? Reason money!!!

[cowgoo]

I thought that I saw in a Cameron interview that The Terminator was inspired from an old Outer Limits episode from the 60's 8)

[CuCuy]

I thought that I saw in a Cameron interview that The Terminator was inspired from an old Outer Limits episode from the 60's.

This is true. SF&F author Harlan Ellison accused Cameron of ripping off ideas from some of his stories. He sued and got a credit inserted into the video reading "acknowledgment to the works of Harlan Ellison". His inadvertant contributions to "The Terminator" originally appeared in two episodes of "The Outer Limits" titled "Soldier" and "Demon With A Glass Hand".

[Nilfennasion]

Infringement claims rarely get publicised that much until there is a result. Harlan Ellison's claim against James Cameron was not resolved until after Terminator 2 came out on video, if I remember correctly. It is difficult to flog a pending case on the news simply because it is difficult to make anyone other than the plaintiff and defendant care.

The Matrix as a concept has been ripped off from so many sources that it is a testament to humanity's inability to come up with new ideas that its makers have not been sued dozens of times. The number of times a matrix having a glitch is mentioned during the Doctor Who serial Trial Of A Timelord, as well as in earlier 1970s serials such as The Deadly Assassin, doesn't leave much room for arguing that it is all a coincidence.

The ideas that The Matrix steals from sources such as Tron are more general themes, and thus harder, if not impossible, to prosecute. If I remember correctly, Ellison only won against Cameron because the entire concept of Skynet, a defensive computer network that goes sentient, was copied word for word from I Have No Mouth And Must Scream or Demon With A Glass Hand (I forget which), and in such a manner that any fool with an IQ above 90 could connect the dots. Either way, Ellison does have a rep for being a bitter little man who spends more time making life difficult for others than creating new work.

My favourite copyright case was Intel versus AMD, in which the courts ruled that you cannot copyright a product name that consists solely of a number. Next thing you know, the 80586 became the Pentium.

[guns1inger]

She admits herself that many of her central concepts in fact come from seeing Star Wars (giving that films too much credit for depth, in my opinion). Let her win, then let George Lucas take it all back in his own lawsuit. You can't claim the concepts you ripped off from some else have in turn been ripped off, and get money for it. There are also too many 'they do this all they time' and 'they have been ringing me' in her defence. 'They! Who the hell are they ?' (Damn, now the estate of Sam Pekinpah will be after me)

[Marvingj]

There are a lot of ideas & Concepts I've had but didn't have the $$$$ to make it happen. So if you have a idea or concept finance it your self or don't let anyone see it. Once some like your idea, they will make the $$$ and you won't. Oh Yea I wrote the stage play Wizard of Oz 25 years ago but still didn't get paid. Still got the scripts.....

[BJ_M]

"The Prisoner" 1967 had a lot of the themes used in many movies -- it was as ground breaking show in many respects

[BJ_M]

In fact i just was reading that "the matrix" used a lot of themes from the "The Prisoner", in fact it is even playing on the TV in the original Matrix when Neo runs through the old lady's apartment, you notice an image on the TV. The image is of one of the Number 2s from The Prisoner. And in the Matrix Reloaded, it is full of references to "The Prisoner"

[fritzi93]

[quote="DereX888"]The Matrix general idea was well-written in '60s or 70's in a novel by some eastern-european writer, at least that was my thought. I don't remember his/her name or the title, it was in one of those old 'anthology of sci-fi' 70's books or something like that I think.

To cut the story short it was something like this: guy was living his regular life until some "glitch" appeared for few seconds. He started to analyze everything, finally he got to the conclusion he must be in some sort of coma, and 'real live' is not real, while in the 'real reality' he was just one of the many other human brains held in some lab, where all his nerves/senses were fed appropiate information from computers... basically a 'matrix'
So whats new LOL
[quote]

You're probably thinking of the novel "Wolfbane" by Frederik Pohl and C. M. Kornbluth. People in tanks, "programmed" to serve their mechanical masters. They run all the processes in the system, only partly conciously. One wakes up, escapes from his tank, frees others, etc., etc.

Trouble is, the story has little in common with the other plot elements, especially no "matrix". But then, no doubt you'll find something of that element somewhere else. Makes it sound like it's a grabbag cobbled together, huh? Or put it another way: we all draw from the same common stock of ideas, deliberately or not. Where to draw the distinction between influence and plagiarism, I dunno.

Anyway, as Presto implies, all creative works have antecedents somewhere.



[EDIT] Pardon, I should say the germ of the "matrix" idea is there in the novel, but it's elaborated almost beyond recognition in the movies.

[DVD_NDN]

interesting....
after reading the three sources provided above, I felt the need to put in my two cents. I'm sure not everyone would agree with my opinions expressed, but... opinions are like ********, and everyone's stinks (right?).

Assuming that Sophia Stewart's (the complainant) story is true, its pretty damning that she had sent off scripts/screenplays of 'the third eye' to the currently credited writers of the matrix, in a call for scripts for a comic book (or graphic novel).

As I recall from a forgotten source, the origional concept called for a black actor for the role of "Neo", I believe Will Smith was penciled in, but turned it down for his role in "wild Wild West" (please correct me if I am wrong).

I dont recall anywhere in the three provided sources it reading anything about the suit being based on race itself. She does state however that *her* novel 'the third eye' was written from the perspective of a mature/older black woman, and that the characters in *her* novel were created to reflect that specifically.

What the case is about, if I am correct (I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again) is a matter of intellectual theft and copyright infringement (theft?). Her claim is that her novel was taken and used in major film industry productions, while she was given no credit or royalties.
The rest? fluff, as far as I am concerned.

I read the article, and thought 'if I had written something, a novel, a song - whatever, and somebody else took it and claimed it was theirs? I would be pissed too', I would want whats coming to me, wouldnt you? even moreso when considering the payoff. Regardless of her reason, she believes *her* novel is being bastardized.

It isnt recent either according to what Ive read. According to the links provided above, this has been an ongoing legal battle for at least six years now. That been said, she also says that this isnt about the money, its about standing up.. blah blah blah... I recall a saying - whenever somebody says its not about the money... its about the money.
Regardless of her reasons, if her case is good enough...

And as far as that goes... the FBI are investigating as well, for some racketeering charges because they (the production company) *allegedly* removed scenes from the "matrix" (according to the links again mentioned above) that would have been *far* too clear of a plagerism against *her* novel. That been said, the verdict is not yet in on that matter either, so I suppose in all fairness it should not be really considered in the debate, further than to say that it is not yet proven to be fact.

now, I guess I could go on, but... I feel the need to say that I am not a laywer, nor do I pretend to be one. I do not know the whole story as to what *Really* happened... thats for the courts to decide based on the evidence given.

My intent in adding to this was not to offend anyone, or to argue with them on a personal level, merely an attempt to add my own take on the article. If I have offended anyone, I DO apologize.

-NDN

[Nilfennasion]

Ah, but for some of us, it really isn't about the money.

In the case of writers who aren't plastered all over posters at bookstores or cinemas... say, Terry Pratchett for example, a stolen idea can represent the theft of an opportunity to expand one's audience. Say for example that someone stole Fight Club and did it exactly the same way, except having the men break wind at one another instead of fighting, without giving Chuck P any credit. Sure, he can sue and reclaim material losses, but the likelihood of his novel being adapted goes way down (not that his novels are lining up to be adapted anyway).

To an established author with a fanbase, the loss is pretty significant, but to a first-time author with no real connections in the industry, it can be utterly devestating. This is why judgements against film studios often force the studio to insert acknowledgements on home video versions of their product.

[Redd]

Edited...................Removed by Redd due to this is not a Political Forum...as much as I wanted to leave it up. Rats.

[satviewer2000]

Since the "Blackman" "stole" English from the Whiteman, therefore, the Blackman should have to pay the Whiteman compensation for using the English language. After all, how can the Blackman have originated the idea of Matrix and the Terminator without the use of the English language.

[BJ_M]

lot of holes in that theory -- lets not go down that path anyway please ..

[DereX888]

Since the "Blackman" "stole" English from the Whiteman, therefore, the Blackman should have to pay the Whiteman compensation for using the English language. After all, how can the Blackman have originated the idea of Matrix and the Terminator without the use of the English language.

Ah hahahaha
Good point, indeed and how racist too

But languages haven't been copyrighted (yet)...

[celtic_druid]

Wouldn't it be more "whiteman" stole "blackman" or "blackman's" country and forced him to speak English anyway?

I for one am glad that many people around the world speak/write English. Saves my lazy arse from learning anything else.