Encoding and Rendering times

[shimonmor]

I'm using Premiere 6.5 on a homebuilt machine (XP Pro SP2, P4 3.2GHz 800MHz FSB Socket 478, Intel D875PBZ mobo, 1 GB Corsair XMS RAM, ATI AIW 9600 video card, 2x36GB Raptors RAID 0 System, 2x250GB SATA Data).

I have two questions.

1) Can I get "real-time" rendering to work in Premiere 6.5? Would I need to update the software or could I buy a PCI card to help with rendering? Is my computer fast enough for "real-time" rendering?

2) When encoding DV footage to MPEG2 for home DVD viewing, I'm using the included MainConcept encoder. I'm wondering if my times are ok given my system. For example, I just encoded (VBR 8000kbps max, 4000 min, 5600 avg, 48kHz PCM auidio, multiplexed for DVD) a home movie which had 41255 frames and it took about 33 minutes and finished off with an average of 20.8 frames/second. The .mpg file came out to be 1.16 GB. Does 33 minutes sound about right? What could I do to decrease times? Is there a hardware PCI that can help with encoding that isn't astronomically expensive?

Thanks.

[edDV]

6.5 encoder won't do it during realtime capture.

You need the standalone 1.4 version Mainconcept Encoder or a differnet product like ULead video Studio.

http://www.mainconcept.com/adobepromo.html

[shimonmor]

Maybe I didn't explain my first question clearly enough.

I was asking about real time rendering not encoding. Like when I have titles in the my movies, everytime I change something I have to press "Render Work Area"...I thought I was reading on this site that you can have things render automatically or in "real-time" so you don't have to render everytime you make a change and then want to preview the movie.

My second questions was just asking if there is some piece of hardware (like a PCI card) that can help encode or do all the encoding to MPEG2.]

Thanks.

[guns1inger]

Your PC is certainly fast enough for real-time rendering of some effects and a couple of tracks, but I think you need Premiere Pro to get this happening. 6.5's realtime features were decidedly average without a specialist card. I am assuming here that your reference to real-time rendering is watching playback of your edits and transitions in real-time rather than waiting for a preview to render ?

Even with so-called real-time rendering, you will still have to sit through a final render when you export.

Yes, there are hardware mpeg encoders. Most will give you real-time or better. This might get you an extra 6 - 7 fps. You are already getting pretty good performance out of your machine, so you need to look at the cost trade-off. You could also consider CCE as an encoder. It is faster than Mainconcept, although Minaconcept is no slouch itself.

[edDV]

Sorry missed #1 as effects rendering.

When you set project defaults in 6.5, you need to spec the software realtime preview.



This affects only preview as said (less than full resolution render). The render must be repeated for the full resolution final export file.

There are many hardware cards that allow Premiere to run real time in various modes as supportedby each card.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/6cards.html

Downside is many of these cards are obsolete (for XP) or require complex RAID support. Read the requirements carefully.


PS: Your encoding times are in the ballpark and faster than mine.

[daamon]

For example, I just encoded (VBR 8000kbps max, 4000 min, 5600 avg

No-one's commented on this, so I shall - I'm assuming that it's 2-pass VBR...

Your min of 4,000 is (IMO) too high. Increasing the min doesn't increase the quality, in fact it can compromise it. Here's why:

"In 2-pass VBR mode, the compressor will make two passes. In the first pass, it will compress the footage while trying to keep a constant quality, regardless of bitrate. It will then use the resulting bitrate (scaled to fit within the user-selected values) to do the final encoding. This results in the best relationship between compression and quality."

Source: www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=303#303

In short, what happens during VBR is that high bitrate is allocated to scenes where it's needed, and low bitrate where the scenes don't need it - all the while making sure the average is adhered to.

If you have too high a bitrate for your minimum, it means that, to maintain the average, allocation to high bitrate scenes can't be as high as it might need to be - possibly introducing macroblocks, and at least reducing quality if not always visibly.

I encode with TMPGEnc, and my 2-pass VBR's are min 2,000 avg XXXX and max 8,000. The XXXX is whatever I need it to be, taken from the VideoHelp Bitrate Calculator.

Hope that's of use...

[shimonmor]

I am assuming here that your reference to real-time rendering is watching playback of your edits and transitions in real-time rather than waiting for a preview to render ?

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. I guess I'll live with it for now. It doesn't take a lot a time it's just that extra step that can be pain when you're trying to tweak something.

Yes, there are hardware mpeg encoders. Most will give you real-time or better. This might get you an extra 6 - 7 fps.

6-7 extra fps isn't that much of a gain. Oh well.

There are many hardware cards that allow Premiere to run real time in various modes as supportedby each card.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/6cards.html

Downside is many of these cards are obsolete (for XP) or require complex RAID support. Read the requirements carefully.

Thanks edDV...I'll take a look at those cards. But it looks as if extra hardware won't add that much benefit given the cost.

Your min of 4,000 is (IMO) too high. Increasing the min doesn't increase the quality, in fact it can compromise it.

That's good to know. I learn a lot each time I log on this site. I was going off what I read in one of the articles by racer-x: Super High Quality Slideshows with Premiere 6.5 Guide. He suggested 9000/4000kpbs for slideshows so I assumed those numbers would be good for a movie too.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies...very helpful.

[shimonmor]

I'm assuming that it's 2-pass VBR...

I just loaded Premiere 6.5 again because I don't recall seeing anything about how many passes the encoder uses. I looked through all the settings on the MainConcept Encoder and can only see that VBR is selected but there is no mention for number of passes.

Is the number of passes set-able? Or is it always single pass?

[edDV]

Can't look now 'cause it's rendering --
I think 2-pass came with v1.4. MC says so here
http://www.mainconcept.com/adobepromo.html

[daamon]

Is the number of passes set-able? Or is it always single pass?

Dunno - I used to edit with Premiere 6.0 and have moved to Premiere Pro 1.5. I frameserve from their direct to TMPGEnc where I encode, and the number of passes, if I'm doing VBR, can be defined.

Sorry...

[shimonmor]

I think 2-pass came with v1.4. MC says so here
http://www.mainconcept.com/adobepromo.html

I'm using the 1.3beta version of the Premiere 6.5 MainConcept Encoder. The documentation is pretty pathetic. It explains all the features which are intuitive but anything advanced or complex or if something is in need of explanation...then the manual states: "That's too advanced for you, don't touch it!". Geez.

I may consider upgrading to the 1.4 for $50. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[edDV]

You may find this Vegas white paper on the Mainconcept encoder more useful. Most of the controls are the same.

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step2.asp?DID=391

[edDV]

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[Bjs]

Try getting hold of the avermedia dvd ezmaker gold pci card , crap software , but it will capture , encode and output dvd video files on the fly , ready to be burnt to dvd , no mess , no hassle's either .

In au , $70.00 is the price for these .

Combine it with a couple of my guides here in the forum , plus dvdauthorgui , pgcedit , vobedit and besweet , and you have all you will ever need .

Did I forget the capture quality is almost that of what you'd expect from dvd's , as for your pc , its way out there , so you dont have to worry about speed ... you might need to throw a few bricks into it too slow it down ... lol