Burned DVD "stutters"

[mobobo]

Hi.
I'v searched high and low for a solution to this problem, but maybe in the wrong places or used the wrong words. My problem is that I have a good MPEG2-file, but when i add menues etc. in Adobe Encore, burn it (still using Encore for this process) and then play the DVD, the image 'stutters' ( -since i'm from Denmark (PAL 4:3) i'm not quite sure that it's the right word but it's like all movement are made in strobolight. It's NOT an interlace problem)

I'v tried different DVD-players: My PC DVD-player(WinDVD) and the one connected to my TV
I'v tried different types of DVD's (+,- and RW)
I'v read maybe the writingspeed should be lowered but I can't lower it more than x4 in Encore.
I'v tried converting and burning the MPEG2 with DVD Decrypter (insted of Encore)
I'm Pretty sure my computer hardware is good enough for the process

What do I do wrong? Have all the DVD's i'v tried been crap? Is it my burner? (brand new).

Mobobo

[Nelson9937955]

What brands of media are you using?

[Gurm]

Err... it's PROBABLY media. But then again, you say it stutters in WinDVD? In that case, it could simply be that Encore is doing a lousy job on the coversion.

[sanjayk]

Well I think Encore is not handeling the MPEG2 file properly. Try a different authoring tools like TMPGEnc DVD Author or DVDLab or DVDAuthorGUI. Do a forum search for more tools.

[mobobo]

I'v tried:
Hyundai DVD-R (4,7GB)
Fuji DVD-RW 4,7
Fuji DVDV+R

It stutters in WinDVD when i'm playing from a DVD-disc, not harddisk

When I tried the DVD Decrypter I was convinced that it wat not Encore that was the problem, but maybe both programs does lousy jobs?

[Gurm]

DVD Decrypter doesn't encode, it just burns. Maybe your problem is with encoding. Or maybe it's your drive. Hmm...

[mobobo]

The reason that i tried DVD Decrypter was out of despair so I tried a little detour, converting my project into a ISO-fil and then used DVD Decrypter to convert it to a VIDEO_TS folder on the disk.
I'v downloadet TMPGEnc DVD Author tryout and will try it tomorrow. Thank you so far.

[Redd]

Every time I've come across this kind of problem, it's turned out to be bad (cheap) media.

[johns0]

Extract the dvd to your hdd and play the folder with powerdvd,if it still stutters then its the encoding process thats screwing up your dvds.Then use tmpgenc.If no stutters then use better media thats made in japan.

[mobobo]

I can'n extract files from a DVD since the file only existes in MPEG2 (Homevideoproject made with Sony Vegas) but I tried to "Build DVD"
-> "Make Folder" (Encore) to create a "DVD" on my harddisk and it didn't stutter when I played it using WinDVD so I guess that I can rule out Encore encoding as the problem?
I'll try different media next

[mobobo]

I tried using TMPGEnc DVD Author same results: The images stutters.
By the way. It seems like only the image stutters not the audio. wierd??

I also tried to rip a small part of an DVD and doing exatly the same with that avi. file.(Using #1 Ripper and the proceding to 3.(see below) It WORKED fine???? (I have a feeling that it's a PAL >< NTST-problem (lack of frames causes image to stutter, hmmm? anyone?) So where along the prosess do I go wrong with my homevideoprojekt:

1. Recording (analog PAL-camcorder)
2. Capturing using iuVCR (Pinnacle PCTV RAVE card)
3. Compressing using TMPGenc Plus
4. Editing in Sony Vegas (rendering as DVD PAL) leaving me with with one MPEG2-file that workes just fine when I play it in WinDVD.
5. Then I add menues ect. in Encore and burn from there.

=stuttering images

Media i'v tried so far:

Hyundai DVD-R (4.7GB)
Fuji DVD-RW (4.7)
Fuji DVDV+R (4.7)
Packard Bell DVD-R (4.7)

Only the Hyundai-DVD's were really cheap and I tried 3 of those. But I guess that I'v ruled out the media problem?


Any remarks, please?

[mats.hogberg]

How come you suspect a PAL/NTSC problem, when your video is in PAL format from start to finish? Or am I missing something?
Check the framerate of whatever file you have after capturing, and after encoding with TMPGEnc.
Also, but probably not related to the stutter problem, you'd be better off editing before encoding with TMPGEnc.

/Mats

[mobobo]

I don't know, maybe it's just an wild guess, but it just seemed plausible that the image would stutter if frames were missing, but I don't know were it went wrong. If the MPEG2-file playes fine shouldn't all prior actions be correct?

[mats.hogberg]

Yes, improperly framerate converted NTSC material seem to "stutter" - slight pauses about every second, most noticable during pans.
Playing an mpg on the computer doesn't say much about how it will play on a standalone player, since copmuter players are much more adaptive and tolerant.

/Mats

[mobobo]

The problem is exately at you explanes it "slight pauses about every second, most noticable during pans", but I just tried to capture a small part from tv (PAL) and put the file directly to Encore (set to PAL) and burn- > Stutter! On PC and standalone DVD

Just made a new discovery: If I take the stuttering DVD to my standalone DVD-player and in "setup" switches from PAL to NTSC the ímage doesn't STUTTER!!!! but....it now in black and white and 'pixel-like'! Really really strange!

[mats.hogberg]

Definately sounds as if it's in NTSC. What standalone DVD player do you have?

/Mats

[mobobo]

Daenyx. A cheap one but the image also stutters when I play the DVD on my computer?

[mats.hogberg]

Weird. Absolutely sounds like ther is some NTSC stuff somewhere. Have you checked the file properties after capturing and after encoding? Use latest GSpot beta (that handles AVI as well as mpg).

/Mats

[mobobo]

Tried Gspot

Says MPEG2 25.000 fps.

I'v tried EVERYTHING, and getting quite desparate so any far out suggestions are more than welcome.

[mobobo]

OK. New strange development.
If I take the VIDEO_TS -folder from a stuttering DVD(...by now I have quite a few) and move it to harddisc (copy -paste) and playes it in WinDVD -> NO stuttering!
Which leads me to beleave that my DVD-drive on my PC and my standalone DVD-player BOTH are crap (REALLY bad luck).
Any other ideas?
I'll try a third standalone player tomorrow

[winifreid]

Do you notice the problem mostly when there is movement in the scene and not at all when eveything is still? If yes, and you are encoding to mpeg2 from avi, it is possible that it is field order. You can run the mpeg through restream and change the order.

[GeorgeW]

What bitrate did you encode? and what type of audio are you using?

Too high a combined bitrate (video + audio) can choke a set-top dvd player.

For your DVD Burner, make sure all non-essential background tasks are turned off (virus scanner especially), and make sure you don't have any packet-writing software installed (the kind that lets you drag-and-drop to a dvd disc like it's a hard drive). Also check if DMA is enabled -- in some cases switching it to the other mode helps (with older dvd burners).

[mobobo]

Do you notice the problem mostly when there is movement in the scene and not at all when eveything is still? .

The answer is Yes. So I should run my MPEG-file thorugh Restream before using Encore? or could I just re-render in Sony Vegas and change the order there?

I just tried to run the MPEG file through ReStream flaging "Top field first" right? It didn't work

[markc32]

Hmm it is possible that it says 25fps but is it possible the header info has been modified and changed from its original 23.976fps or whatever?

run it through ifoedit. that will give you some interesting information.

Have you installed forceaspi? that can help as a guy i spoke to could NOT burn a dvd without jitters etc until he upgraded the firmware, then installed forceaspi.

People who blame poor media for this either lack knowledge or a powerful enough pc.

I have the worlds wordt media which was useless with my athlon xp 1600+ but on my athlon 64 3000+ (o/clocked to 2.1GHz) it burns fine and plays fine.

However - I would NEVER advocate bad media - no guarantees!

[mobobo]

What bitrate did you encode? and what type of audio are you using?

GSpot says that the MPEG-file is "8000kbps" and Audio "MPEG-1 Layer 2" (if that is what you meant?). I don't know what DMA is. (exept for Danish Music Award )

I'v just tried to re-encode the MPEGfile using TMPGEnc Plus changing the bitrate from 8000 kbps to 4000 and when it didn't work I tried 2000. Same problem (I don't quite master the bitrate-thing so that's why I randomly tried those two numbers)

[winifreid]

In restream, try both top field first (on) and (off). Or you can run it through vegas and change the order, but if you already encoded the file it is faster to use restream. Field order is always tricky because different programs use different terminology. So just try both ways. When you say it didn't work, I assume you mean the DVD still stuttered? Or did you get an error in restream? It could be framerate, but it sure sounds like field order to me.

[mobobo]

YES! IT WORKS!
I'v tried all you guys said but what did it was changing the transcode-setting in Encore to: PAL Progressiv High quality VBR Pass.
So I guess the problem was some sort of fieldorder-problem.
As far as I know progressiv means blending top and bottom fields, right?
I just don't understand why changing between top and bottom field wasn't enough (tried that in ReStream. No luck) I had to make it progressiv.

The thing is just that applying the trancecode took 4 hours but I
think it's possible to do the same in Vegas before rendering(?). but i tried to set the fieldorder to "none (progressiv scan)" and also Deinterlace method to "Blend fields"and then render the project and add menu in Encore... Still stuttering (I chose "don't transcode")

Thanks a lot to all who helped me

[mobobo]

DAMM!

It's only worked while playing the DVD in WinDVD, not the standalone.
WHYYYYYYYYYYY MEEEEEEE!

Any suggestions?

[ulapines]

Do you notice the problem mostly when there is movement in the scene and not at all when eveything is still? If yes, and you are encoding to mpeg2 from avi, it is possible that it is field order. You can run the mpeg through restream and change the order.

Thanks winifreid you saved my day.
I had the same problem and didn't save my original avi.
I run it trough restream and that fixed it.