HDTV capture cards.

[reboot]

What's currently the "in" card?
I've looked at quite a few, and I'm starting to get a grasp on the differences, but...
I don't need the best, nor the cheapest, I just want what works the simplest.
Dual inputs not needed.
Hardware encoding preferred, but not necessary.
Where to buy (without a credit card) in Canada, or the US that ships to Canada?
There are slim pickings on ebay...

[Baldrick]

www.avsforum.com

[dphirschler]

My own research led me to the Dvico Fusion HDTV 3 T/Q. It receives analog and digital channels (SD and HD) both off air (aerial antenna) or off cable (256 QAM). Features for price, this one wins in my eyes.

So far, I am very happy with it. Tuesday we watched American Idol and House in HDTV and it was beautiful. I now have my system set to PVR record the shows each week. I can see the end of my dependency on the VCR is within reach.


Darryl

[Baldrick]

[off topic]
I also want HDTV....it is 3984723984 years away here in sweden...
[/off topic]

[dphirschler]

BTW, the system I have the card installed in is the minimum spec machine. It's an AMD Athlon XP 1600+ (1.4GHz) with an ATI Radeon 7000. I do see ocassional stuttering in my PVR recordings. Could be the RAM (I only have 384) or could be the processor. I just ordered a new processor for that machine, an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ (1.7 GHz). We'll see if that helps.


Darryl

[reboot]

I did a cursory look at the Fusion card.
I have the system to handle it with no trouble.

Any other opinions?
I'll definitely check out avsforum, thanks.

[off topic]
Wasn't sure if this belonged in DTV or Capture, thanks for moving it
[/offtopic]

[Webster]

I did a cursory look at the Fusion card.
I have the system to handle it with no trouble.

Any other opinions?
I'll definitely check out avsforum, thanks.

[off topic]
Wasn't sure if this belonged in DTV or Capture, thanks for moving it
[/offtopic]

Have you check out the MyHD card? they have a newer version now.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/mdp130.asp
It is hardware decoder where as Fusion is Software decoding.

[reboot]

Yup, saw that too. It's also $250 US! I was hoping for something a little bit cheaper, and don't mind a "soft" card at all.
Found an Avermedia A180 product, but everyone seems to be out of stock.
Any opinions on that card? (Edit: Nevermind...seems you MUST have MCE to use it)
I can't find anyone that has the Hauppauge WinTVHD either.

[maxpower2078]

I have the Dvico Fusion HDTV 3 and could not ask for more, it does everything it says it will, great value.

[Webster]

Then I would go with the Fusion card. It is a well proven card. And with your setup, there should be no problem unless you try to encode video, capture, and watch HDTV at the same time...

[hrlslcbr]

[off topic]
I also want HDTV....it is 3984723984 years away here in sweden...
[/off topic]

[off topic too]
So you'll get HDTV before me...
[/off topic too]

[Soopafresh]

I have a MyHD MDP-120 and get beautiful over the air (OTA) signals, which are "recorded" as MPEG Transport Streams on the Fly. The thing takes up few CPU cycles - I can do an TmpgEnc encode and watch HDTV without either app slowing down.

The Fusion card gets very good reviews. Just don't get an ATI HD Wonder card - the end user reviews have been pretty bad. I guess the software for them is horrible. I've read a whole bunch of nightmarish threads of people struggling to get the ATI card to work. Of course, YMMV.

[reboot]

After reading the reviews, and spending most of the day on this...
The MDP-120 or the Fusion...now...do I want ANOTHER hardware card? (I already have two PVR-250's)

[dphirschler]

That was my conclusion as well. It came down to price for me.


Darryl

[DVWannaB]

Obviously we will have to make our own opinions, but on the AVSForum the predominant opinion of HDTV cards is that the MyHD MDP-120/130 cards are the best. The Fusion apparently has many bugs and can be very problematic. The good thing is that Fusion seemingly has a new SW release every month. Some good and some not so good, where they fix something and break something that worked fine before. The popular opinion is that Fusion is using "us" as Beta testers, instead of developing a truly strong, problem free card (SW driven problems).

So if you want a "PROVENED" HDTV card, that many testers (on AVS and other gear-head techie sites) have given the thumbs up, go with the MyHD MDP-120. The MyHD MDP-130 is a new version. More expensive than Fusion and for good reason.

[DeadLamb]

yeah depends on what one wants to do.. Sure the myHD card is better on a hardware level but to get DVI out it's even more $$ to buy that daughter card.. There is also pass thru cable that many don't want to mess with and then you have the price..

Maybe for some people it's worth but more being the extra things it does are a must have.. For me, looking to just record HDtv and then play it back later the two fusion cards I own have been pretty bomb proof.. 2 computer, networked together and they share one antenna.

cost for cost you can almost get two fusion cards Vs 1 myhd and and if you have a spare cpu sitting around record two shows for the cost of just one MYhd card + daughter card and bottom line, once you record the show it's not like it matters what hardware you used to capture the stream, it's going to digitaly look the same.

Of course the big "if" here is what one wants to do with the card. Time shifting and so on with the fusion might as well be called busted being they seem to bounce back and forth with it working or not work as far as what the driver up dates do. Also there is an issue with hitting some encryped channels in QAM and card just ups and crashes.. Should all that work? yes.. does it? no.. trade off for cost? Depends on if one cares about doing that sort of stuff or not.

for just recording and playing back HD the fusions work great.. I think if the cost of the cards was closer the MyHd would be the clear winner here. Sep with the price dif being close to 1/2 one should factor that in a little depending on what they plan to do with the card..

For me the DVI add on card and the pass thru cable were just deal breakers for the Myhd.. Even if I think most would not care about the pass thru cable.

[dynamix1]

hey dphirschler where did you purchase that dvico fusion at. Appreciate it.

[GeekFunk]

I have a MyHD MDP-120 and get beautiful over the air (OTA) signals, which are "recorded" as MPEG Transport Streams on the Fly. The thing takes up few CPU cycles - I can do an TmpgEnc encode and watch HDTV without either app slowing down.

The Fusion card gets very good reviews. Just don't get an ATI HD Wonder card - the end user reviews have been pretty bad. I guess the software for them is horrible. I've read a whole bunch of nightmarish threads of people struggling to get the ATI card to work. Of course, YMMV.

I've had the ATI HDTV Wonder working in my Windows XP Media Center edition system for five months, and it has performed fabulously from very first time I installed it, which was uneventful.

I've also read about some of the problems that some folks have had installing the ATI HDTV Wonder, and it does look pretty bad. However, the issues almost always involved wrong graphics cards, PCI device conflicts, or plain ineptness in attempted installations by users.

First, you must have a graphics card that is fairly recent, like an ATI Radeon 9600, Nvidia GeforceFX 5200, or better. The significance of recent graphics cards is that the ATI HDTV Wonder requires a graphics card that supports DirectX 9.0.

Second, the ATI HDTV Wonder is a high performance PCI card, and, if you stick it in a PCI slot that shares an IRQ with another high performance card or device, you might get a poorly performing tuner card (stuttering HD programs, etc.), or no performance at all.

Third, some folks screw up the installation due to inexperience or lack of skill. For instance, some don't do a proper antenna ananlysis and try to use a insufficent antenna to bring in local over-the-air HD signals. When they don't get a picture or a stuttering screen, they blame it on the ATI HDTV Wonder.

Or, they don't meet the system preparation requiirements: there is a Windows HD rollup download to be installed, and installing a DVD decoder before installing the ATI HDTV Wonder is absolutely required. Again, they blame the ATI drivers and software when it doesn't work right.

Anyway, I wrote a step by step installation procedure for the ATI HDTV Wonder in a Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 computer. It is a low risk and highly successful procedure, according to reports of people who have tried it.

Find it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=515080[/url]

In the procedure, I do mention the other HDTV tuners that are quite popular and successful, including the FusionHDTV and the latest AverTVHD from Avermedia.

I have a WMCE 2005 system that includes the ATI HDTV Wonder and the AverTVHD. I can record two HD programs simultaneously, or record one while watching another. It works fabulously.

Incidentally, I do not consider my system a "Home Theater PC"; it does a hell of a lot more than that.

[dphirschler]

hey dphirschler where did you purchase that dvico fusion at. Appreciate it.

I chose Copperbox from the links found here... mainly because they had it in stock.
http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/ENG/WhereToBuy.aspx

Here is a direct link:
http://www.copperbox.com

It cost $149 plus shipping.


Darryl

[reboot]

I'm not using the card for anything but OTA recordings. As I mentioned above, I have 2 PVR-250's for all my "normal" cable recordings.
The Fusion is looking better and better, both because it doesn't require a $250 video card (which I'm NOT willing to upgrade at the moment), and because it's half the price.
I am putting in a GF Ti-4400, which is a slight improvement over my PCI Radeon 7000

Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this: The Avermedia HDTV card ONLY works with XPMCE, or not? The Avermedia site is rather vague, although for specs it doesn't mention anything except MCE.
If so, then this is NOT an option for me.

The more I read about the ATI, the more I want nothing to do with it, whether it's user stupidity/error or not.

Nobody in Canada has any of these HDTV cards, except the ATI
Anyone know of a place that takes paypal in the US? Looking at the Fusion more and more, unless there's a big sale on the MDP-130...

[Soopafresh]

I've had the ATI HDTV Wonder working in my Windows XP Media Center edition system for five months, and it has performed fabulously from very first time I installed it, which was uneventful.

Right on, GeekFunk. I stand corrected. Glad to hear the problems have been resolved.

[GeekFunk]

Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this: The Avermedia HDTV card ONLY works with XPMCE, or not? The Avermedia site is rather vague, although for specs it doesn't mention anything except MCE.
If so, then this is NOT an option for me.

The more I read about the ATI, the more I want nothing to do with it, whether it's user stupidity/error or not.

AverTVHD MCE A180 was designed specifically for the Windows MCE 2005. As of this writing, I am unaware of any software that will cause the AverTVHD to work in any configuration other than in a WMCE 2005 system.

The AverTVHD is an OEM product and comes in a white box. You will get no driver CD with it if you buy it. The drivers must be downloaded from Avermedia's website. And, expect little tech support as you would for a shrink wrapped product. However, I've heard that Avermedia does help folk out on some things.

I emailed Avermedia and asked them specifically whether there was any software for this product. They said, "No."

However, I installed the AverTVHD in a plain Windows XP box, and the HD TV didn't work. Naturally, no software! But, I could use Windows Movie Maker to record video from the svideo and composite inputs on the card.

Note that there is a forum thread over at Sage TV website that discusses Sage beta software that is said to work with the AverTVHD. Look for the Beta software thread.

[dphirschler]

BTW, the system I have the card installed in is the minimum spec machine. It's an AMD Athlon XP 1600+ (1.4GHz) with an ATI Radeon 7000. I do see ocassional stuttering in my PVR recordings. Could be the RAM (I only have 384) or could be the processor. I just ordered a new processor for that machine, an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ (1.7 GHz). We'll see if that helps.

So I installed the new CPU last night. It seemed to be improved, although Windows Task Manager still reported 100% CPU usage on 720p stations. Tonight I will be PVRing "American Idol" in HD. With the old processor it looked spectacular, but seemed to stutter or drop frames now and then. I am hoping to eliminate that with this new processor.

Not trying to hijack the thread. I just thought the performance of the card might be relevant to this discussion. Of course, it may be my cheap-ass mobo.


Darryl

[GeekFunk]

We must keep in mind that we are dealing with high definition video, which are huge files.

For instance, I recorded more that four hours of the Masters Golf Tournament, which was broadcast locally in high def.

Guess how large the resulting file was? More than 33 GB!!

Now, if one were to edit, author, compress, and burn the result to DVD this one HD program, how long would you think it would take an Athlon XP 1600+ to get all of this done?

I don't know how long. But, certainly I wouldn't blame a Athlon 1600+ if it choked and quit on you.

Fellows, we are dealing with hefty video files. You need a hefty system.

Trying to do this on the cheap with spare or marginal pc parts just won't cut it. Nor would trying to upgrade your "second" computer do a adequate job.

You need to rethink the technical requirements demanded by high def video.

[reboot]

I'm not concerned with my computer specs. I have more than adequate speed and space.
(Note to self: update computer specs in profile)

I'm definitely NOT willing to get Sage, especially a Beta that cost $$$, in order to use an MCE card that may, or may not work at all. I didn't like their free trial either.
Beyond TV was just as bad.
I don't care if it's "white box", although SOME sort of software would be nice.

Now all I need to do, is find the Fusion in Canada (or will ship to), or the MDP-120/130 on sale.

[dphirschler]

We must keep in mind that we are dealing with high definition video, which are huge files.

For instance, I recorded more that four hours of the Masters Golf Tournament, which was broadcast locally in high def.

Guess how large the resulting file was? More than 33 GB!!

...

Fellows, we are dealing with hefty video files. You need a hefty system.

Trying to do this on the cheap with spare or marginal pc parts just won't cut it. Nor would trying to upgrade your "second" computer do a adequate job.

You need to rethink the technical requirements demanded by high def video.

Understood. But...

1. I am aware that my PC is not the ideal setup for HDTV, however, it is withing the minimum spec suggested by Dvico for the Fusion HDTV card. I thought it might be helpful for others to see how it performs with this setup.

2. Aside from demdulating the QAM signal (which is happening within the Fusion card's hardware), the PC is really only dumping already encoded video to the HD. So not much work for the processor, maybe the bus gets a workout. I can see how it could take some horsepower to display the video since it would have to decode it.

3. A two hour HD broadcast ("American Idol" followed by "House") was less than ten gigs for me. Well, that sounds about right compared to yours if yours was 1080i. Mine (FOX network) was 720p.


Darryl