Just had two big problems two other Panny owners listed here

[Bridge]

I just got two problems two other people got just now on my Panny E80. I was editing down some video I wanted to keep and was doing a lot of editing. After a day of taping and editing I was on my last one. The big one that I wanted to cut and keep the most. First, it stopped editing then it crashed. After I couldn't do anything with it. It said I had like 17 hours of record time left but I just got a black screen and/or a frozen picture. Then I tried to record after it restarted to see what happend. I got a "U99" error. Someone else here with an E85 got that error too. He posted an upgrade for early E85's but I have an E80. I wonder if the same firmware upgrade would work with both machines? I still don't know if I did too many edits and reached the limit? Does the hard drive crash after you reach so many? Plus, what's the deal with an E80 getting a "U99" error. Does that happend after you do so many dividing of video and how much is too much dividing before you get the "U99" error?

What sucks most is that I saved the most important video until last because it was going to be so many edits. I got to within 3-5 mins of finishing and it crashed. I had to erase all progams and format. All my stuff is lost.

I'm afraid to try a firmware upgrade made for early E85 Pannys but I got the same U99 error that they did I wonder if I have the same problem and the firmware upgrade is what I need even though it's not intended for my E80.

If it was your machine would would you do? Take the chance and try the firmware or just let it go and try not to divide very much?

After I edited each video I burnt them and then dropped them from the hard drive. I thought that the free space would open up room and it wouldn't crash during editing but it didn't work.

So, if anyone has a Panny with a hard drive and think they can edit, burn it to disk, and delete the file off of the hard drive that might not work. By the way I used the shorten feature not the playlist feature. Playlist makes my video very dark during transfer and shorten doesn't do that as much so I have to do the shorten method.

I'm bummend.

[doxtorRay]

I had the same thing happen on my E80 about a year ago.

I know how empty and helpless you must feel.
--I lost a movie I recorded from satellite that I had been waiting 10 years to record (it is not on video or DVD, and only Turner Classic Movies ever shows it).

I would not try the firmware, since the operation of the E85 is quite a bit different from the E80.

I have been trouble free for a year (using two E80s almost daily during that time). I think it is possible to avoid E80 surprises, even without a firmware upgrade for the E80 (although that would be very nice).
Here's what works for me:

1) If you have erased any program from the hard drive, always assume that the hard drive is fuller than the E80 says it is. This is especially true if you did any DIVIDE PROGRAM or (extra especially) SHORTEN SEGMENT editing. The Panny OS just does a lousy job of re-assigning hard drive space once it has been "freed-up" by editing and deleting programs, and this is the source of the problem.

2) Try to leave the unwanted portions left from a DIVIDE PROGRAM on the hard drive (renaming them prevents confusion). Erasing them gives the E80 a chance to (mis)allocate the space they took up.

3) If possible, establish a workflow of doing all of your recording onto the hard drive before you edit anything on it. Then, do all of your editing and copying to disc. Then, erase everything or FORMAT the drive. The problems occur when a new recording is made on the hard drive after an older recording has been edited (and perhaps even erased). Apparently, the E80 will assign parts of a new recording to space in the hard drive that once was occupied by deleted portions of edited material. Unfortunately, it essentially "forgets" where it put the recording when it does so. That's why the crashes occur when the E80 is trying to play back, edit, or copy the newly recorded material. It can't find part of the newer recording.
I know I am anthropomorphizing here, but I find it helps me to think of the E80 as very forgetful; I don't let it fill any cubby-holes that it will later forget about.

4) FORMAT the hard drive (after copying its contents, of course) frequently. Using the workflow in 3), I fill the HDD, edit it, copy it, and format it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Having to format the E80 is a pain. However, having the E80 format itself when you don't want it to is soooooo much more painful.

[Bridge]

Yes, I format the drive every time I finsh editing and dubbing. I read some people done that and they had no problems so I'm doing that.

I did find something I think you said interesting. Are you saying that the problem with editing and dividing (consequently crashing the drive and loosing things) happens after you do previous editing? I had the U99 problem just last night but I had the crash/can't edit problem twice. Both times was when I taped early in the day, edited and later taped more stuff at night and edited that down without formating after I was done with the morning stuff.

So, are trying to say that it might not have done that if I didn't edit the stuff in the morning first?

So, what I should do is record everything through the day and then edit the whole tapings in one sitting or at one time because if I tape at one time, and edit it, then tape some more and edit it later the new stuff gets lost on the hard drive and crashes? I'm thinking about what I did both times to cause the crash and find ways to do things different. I do the format when I'm done but both times I didn't erase the morning stuff I just edited it and burnt it. Later at night I recorded more, edited that and burnt it. Plus, on both days I did a lot of dividing which is something I normally don't do.

Thanks for that idea. I'll try it. I try taping the whole day's worth and then edit all at one time if you are saying that it forgets after you start editing and dividing and see if that helps.

Also, thanks for letting me know the whole system inside is different and don't do the upgrade. I didn't want to because I was afraid of the two different model numbers but sometimes you just need to be told because you get this idea of "maybe I should try it and see what happens" and sometimes bad things happen.

Sorry about you loosing your stuff. It's the worst when you wait forever and finally find something you are looking for on TV that airs one time only and something happens. That happend to me last night as well as tons of times from the vcr days until today. How come when it's not important you get it and nothing ever happens but when it's important and you plan everything out before hand something goes wrong then and you don't get it?

Here's another question that happend to me. I started a disk and it transfered over o.k. Then during the a dubbing right the middle of the disk something crashes. After that the disk is just a coster. How can a disk be o.k. for over half a disk of transfering then just crash during a transfer and be un-usable?

[ann coates]

I'm sorry you losty your stuff, Bridge. That's awful. Personally, I think the only safe way to protect items that are really important to you is to immediately save them to a RAM disc. I have the E85 (with the firmware upgrade) and I bought a 5 pack of RAM discs for this purpose. Anytime I record something I really want to keep I immediately save it to a RAM disc. That way if anything happens to the hard drive I have this copy perserved. Then when I copy it to DVDr, I erase it from the RAM disk. I think this is probably the most foolproof way.

Reading doxtorRay's post tells me I'm probably not doing things the best way either. I usually record one clip and edit everything on it before recording another clip. I'm maybe asking for trouble doing it that way.

[Captain Satellite]

I had the same thing happen on my E80 about a year ago.

I know how empty and helpless you must feel.
--I lost a movie I recorded from satellite that I had been waiting 10 years to record (it is not on video or DVD, and only Turner Classic Movies ever shows it).

I would not try the firmware, since the operation of the E85 is quite a bit different from the E80.

I have been trouble free for a year (using two E80s almost daily during that time). I think it is possible to avoid E80 surprises, even without a firmware upgrade for the E80 (although that would be very nice).
Here's what works for me:

1) If you have erased any program from the hard drive, always assume that the hard drive is fuller than the E80 says it is. This is especially true if you did any DIVIDE PROGRAM or (extra especially) SHORTEN SEGMENT editing. The Panny OS just does a lousy job of re-assigning hard drive space once it has been "freed-up" by editing and deleting programs, and this is the source of the problem.

2) Try to leave the unwanted portions left from a DIVIDE PROGRAM on the hard drive (renaming them prevents confusion). Erasing them gives the E80 a chance to (mis)allocate the space they took up.

3) If possible, establish a workflow of doing all of your recording onto the hard drive before you edit anything on it. Then, do all of your editing and copying to disc. Then, erase everything or FORMAT the drive. The problems occur when a new recording is made on the hard drive after an older recording has been edited (and perhaps even erased). Apparently, the E80 will assign parts of a new recording to space in the hard drive that once was occupied by deleted portions of edited material. Unfortunately, it essentially "forgets" where it put the recording when it does so. That's why the crashes occur when the E80 is trying to play back, edit, or copy the newly recorded material. It can't find part of the newer recording.
I know I am anthropomorphizing here, but I find it helps me to think of the E80 as very forgetful; I don't let it fill any cubby-holes that it will later forget about.

4) FORMAT the hard drive (after copying its contents, of course) frequently. Using the workflow in 3), I fill the HDD, edit it, copy it, and format it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Having to format the E80 is a pain. However, having the E80 format itself when you don't want it to is soooooo much more painful.

That's nuts. I have had my E80H since the week that it was released and have recorded hundreds of programs on it. I have reformatted my hard drive only once after hundreds of recordings. These include very heavy editing, dubbing - you name it. I use my machine hours a day and have never had a problem with it. Forgets where it put the recording? I've got to remember that one? It is not necessary to format the hard drive frequently to avoid problems - period.

[starwarrior29]

I have had my E80 for a little over a year now and use it just about every day and edit with it a couple times a week and have never had any problems with it, never have reformatted the hard drive yet either.

[doxtorRay]

Captain and starwarrior...
If you are lucky enough to not have any problems, I honestly am happy to hear of it. However, the E80's hard drive block allocation system is not perfect (is that better than saying that the E80 "forgets"?). Thus, there is a slight chance that, if much editing is done, a block on the drive will be mislabelled. If a new program is later recorded, there is another small chance that the content will be allocated to that mislabelled block. The chances are slight, but it has happened to several of us, and I merely offer my own practices as a possible way to minimize the chances.

I admit that my regimen may be overcautious. However, with the use of -RAM discs and a little pre-planning of recording/editing sessions, it is only slightly inconvenient. For me, it is more palatable than the prospect of losing several recordings all at once.

There is a reason that the FORMAT option is available for the hard drive.

Here are some experiences of others and some idea of Panasonic's take on it ...
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=321761
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415876
http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-18094.html
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2247752#post2247752
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482404

Here's another question that happend to me. I started a disk and it transfered over o.k. Then during the a dubbing right the middle of the disk something crashes. After that the disk is just a coster. How can a disk be o.k. for over half a disk of transfering then just crash during a transfer and be un-usable?

I have had the same thing occur. I am just guessing--probably information in the recording's file that marks the end of the recording is missing from the disc. When the recorder doesn't locate the required information in the files on the disc, it is programmed to consider the disc unusable.