DV capturing advice needed please (DV --> Data)

[fenster1977]

We are working on a project where my organization is going to allow former attendees of our conference (for high school students) to take the footage that we shot of the conference and put together a promotional film that we can use this year.

We have many students who are avid digital art/video enthusiasts and we will definitely have volunteers who are using high-end software such as Premiere and similars apps.

The footage was all shot on a DVCAM. There are eighteen 40-minute cassetes of footage. We thought the best way to get the raw footage to those we choose to take a shot at it would be to transfer the footage to DVD data discs and then ship them.

As I call around for quotes on having this service done, I'm realizing that I need to settle on a file format.

What is the best format to transfer this footage into, for later desktop editing by these students? AVI, MPEG-2, Quicktime?

Which format is a good compromise between quality, editablility, and file size?

What bitrate should the vendor go with?

thanks

[Cornucopia]

Since your transferring to DVD data disc after capture, but before editing...

Capture as 2 x 20 minute segments in DV-AVI format. If need be, change the 4CC to Microsoft's DV codec, and transcode the files to type 2, OpenDML.

These can be saved each to 1 DVD, and should be readable by most, if not all, software including Premiere, Vegas, Vdub, etc--even Quicktime on PC or Mac.

Don't go MPEG2--many editing apps can't read those files. Quicktime is workable, but if going Mac-->PC some editing apps (like Vdub) wouldn't know what to do with it without cross-converting it 1st. You want to keep them in some form of DV file/container, since they were already captured that way (in the camcorder). That way, there'll be no more loss until compositing and final encoding.

Scott

[FulciLives]

If you do what Cornucopia suggests then that will be 36 DVD discs per person which just doesn't seem financially viable.

Granted it is probably the best way in terms of preserving optimal quality.

I'm afraid I can think of no easy, cheaper, less cumbersome way of doing this

- john "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

I agree with the above for best quality media to the users but keep in mind that this will result in 18x2=36 DVDR discs to each student and a total of ~160 GB data.

You might consider a "loan" or grant of a 160GB HDD to make it easier for the students if that makes financial sense. A choice or internal, external firewire or external SATA option might help students match the drives to their local systems. The drives could be later sold on ebay.

[edDV]

Further,

If you opt for 36 DVD's, I would include 3-6 MPeg2 playable DVDs that the student could use to preview and select scenes for import from the 36 high resoulution DV format material. Most will only want to use 2-4 hours of material to transfer.

I suggest you include slate and "window dub" timecode in the preview MPeg2 DVDs to make scene logging easier.

[vhelp]

Given your setup, and criteria ...

Here's the math:

18 * 4.7gig -R disks = (25pk @ $14.99)

Encode to MPEG-2 at CBR 10k bitrate. Unfortunately, my vcalc app
can't do the math probably (my limitation, on my part - need help
for less than 60 minute calcs for my app) .. but if 15k bitrate
will fit one DVD-R/+R disk at 40 min., when I would go that route.

You know your footate is not Cinema quality. We know.

I don't know what those students (geeks) will be doing with your
footage, since you didn't go into any details about that with us.
.
Therefore, I don't think it's necessary to go the AVI route of
storage. You're killing your financial pockets (IMO) for nothing.
Not over students (geeks) no no. Don't do it. Do MPEG-2 only.
.
Go the MPEG-2 route. Encode in Procoder / TMPG (since your source
is obviously Interlace) and use the CBR 10k bitrate I suggested, but
if you can go 15k and fit on one -R disk, then definately do that,
as you'll have next to AVI quality. However, your milage will vary
if you did not use a tripod. (tripod tripod tripod) Always important.

One note though, test your dvd-rom's for compatibility w/ either of
the -r or +r disks, and get the one's that read best, cause you want
to make a first-good impression. Having disks that can't be read
properly will resort in your weakness and stability w/ your students.

-vhelp 3205

[edDV]

It all depends if DV quality is the end goal of the project and if effects editing/compositing will be used.

[Cornucopia]

Ok, let's say 2 x 18 x ~$0.80US per disc = $28.80 for 36 discs. Nothing in the overall scheme of things. Hell, the shipping charges will be higher.

Make 1 set. Send it round to each in turn. They receive it, copy the files from DVD to their hard drives, and send it along to the next guy. Kinda like a chain letter. Use a pre-approved billing account to make it easy on all the students.

You got to remember what many here are talking about is coming from Hobbyist motivation (and pocketbook). What you're thinking of is beyond that. Why do I say that?
Well, let's see... you said the magic words: "organization", "conference", "attendees", "DVCAM"(as opposed to DV), "quotes", "having the service done". (I'm saying this not just for your benefit)

I'll repeat---DO NOT compress to MPEG2 (aka DVD-Video) if you intend for the majority of your students/editors to be able to even use the footage, much less maintain the quality. Yes, you could go I-Frame MPEG2 at 10 or 15Mb/Sec, to maintain quality and editability, but if you do that, you're still risking the chance that some won't be able to import them as source files, and you won't be saving all that much space (10 or 15Mbps vs 25 Mbps). PLUS, you have all that extra encoding time (12 hours minimum).

If you do want to add a DVD-Video as preview, that would be a nice touch. Of course, with 12 hours of footage, you may want to make that ~3 discs, otherwise the quality will Suck.

Scott

[edDV]

A 160GB HDD would cost under $100 ($83 in this newegg ad)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=14&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&...alue=3333,2973
It would save considerable time and could be resold when done.
Students could post a $50 visa bond and either return it or buy it by a specified date.

I'd offer it with either MAC or FAT32 formatting for maximum compatibility.

[Cornucopia]

A 160GB HDD would cost under $100 ($83 in this newegg ad)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=14&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&...alue=3333,2973
It would save considerable time and could be resold when done.
Students could post a $50 visa bond and either return it or buy it by a specified date.

I'd offer it with either MAC or FAT32 formatting for maximum compatibility.

What kind of interface?

USB1--too slow for sustained DV rates
USB2--not everybody's got one yet
SCSI--good luck
IDE--you don't want that many people opening up their CPU cases just to add a temp drive
1394--maybe, just check with everyone involved 1st
...and go FAT32 as MacOS9 and up, and Win98 and up, and Linux will support this.

Not counting time, it's probably still cheaper to go with the 36 DVD discs...

Scott

[edDV]

Welcome to the world of Video Project management

Of course another option is 12 (60min) or 18 (40min) MiniDV tapes (or Digital8) for those with a DV camcorder. Do not use DVCAM.

12 MiniDV at Costco ~ $50 material
dub house charges more but reasonable.