BEWARE Philips DVD+/-R media...no warranty, and no support!

[brownstem]

Hi, just a general warning to folks contemplating buying Philips dvd+r and dvd-r discs (like the 8x sold by both Circuit City and Office Depot). Some details:

1) The media are of very spotty quality, and you WILL get some coasters or bad burns (I use Plextor, Sony, and NEC burners, all with the latest firmware). The media codes are CMC MAG-E01-00 (dvd+r) and CMC MAG. AE1 (dvd-r).

2) Shockingly, these media apparently have no warranty whatsoever! When I contacted Philips I was told this, and when I mentioned that I had never heard of such a thing the guy said he had no idea what department would handle a disc warranty even if there were one. He told me I had to take them back to the store where I bought them. When I went into Office Depot they told me that the only way they'd do a return was if I had the ENTIRE stack. When I told him that only 10 of 50 were bad, and that the other discs were full of video or data, he was unmoved. Sorry, either bring the whole stack back or you get nothing. He told me to contact the manufacturer.

If you check these disc spindles you'll notice that they are, in fact, the only name brand (I've checked Verbatim, Fuji, Maxell, Memorex, TDK, Sony, HP, etc.) which has no warranty blurb at all on the packaging. Brand, speed, and Made in Taiwan. That's it. Who knew?

3) I contacted Philips again after getting shot down at the retailer. They sent me through a series of different 800 numbers before I finally found someone who claimed that another company, Gemeni Industries in New Jersey, supported Philips branded media. I have now left four messages on their customer support voicemail and have yet to get a response.

In short, buy Philips dvd media at your own risk (and only if you're stupid, IMHO). There will always, somewhere, be a stack of kick-ass Fuji (TY) 50 packs on sale for $19.99, so don't bother with them.

[chas0039]

Thanks for the heads up. I have always avoided Philips because they were CMC. Here is another reason. You might contact them here with the story. They may have another US contact.

http://www.cmcnet.com.tw/eng/company.htm

[Noahtuck]

Yep, me and a buddie had this same problem about 2 years ago with this same phillips media from office depot.... +r's, but then they took them right back and gave us a refund, we bought from 2 diff. stores.

[brownstem]

Yeah, and it's ridiculous they won't support the media. Hell, I've got a Philips DivX-enabled dvd player, a Philips HDTV, and assorted other goodies from them over the years. They'll now get exactly zero of my future tech dollars. Idiots.

[Noahtuck]

Yeah, and it's ridiculous they won't support the media. Hell, I've got a Philips DivX-enabled dvd player, a Philips HDTV, and assorted other goodies from them over the years. They'll now get exactly zero of my future tech dollars. Idiots.

I feel the same way.... and about sony also... if you could'nt tell

[lordsmurf]

CMC = crap. Not news to me, not at all.
www.nomorecoasters.com, 4TH class, landfill material, in general.
I bet if you check that stack of 40 burns, you'll find more coasters.

[brownstem]

Noahtuck, why so? Please do explain, as I've had largely good luck with Sony in almost every way. Thx.

[brownstem]

lordsmurf, yeah, you're probably right. Had I known they were CMC I would have steered clear, but naively thought Philips might use a more reputable plant, if not a TY one at least MCC or something. But even so, who would imagine that they wouldn't support the media, crappy production qualities or not?

[Spaceentity]

I've seen several Office Depots dumping the 25 spindles for as litter as $5.00. My neighbor bought 2 spindles and had to return them becase every one ended up being a coaster!

[lordsmurf]

naively thought Philips might use a more reputable plant, if not a TY one at least MCC or something.

Never. Philips is a really CHEAP company, and are in fact the primary reason (along with Sony) that DVD+R even exists .... too cheap to pay royalties on the existing format. And it cost them more, most likely, in the long run (lots of problems in R&D stages and even into early mass production, very costly).

When you buy cheap media, you often spend MORE MONEY because you have to buy all those coasters too.

[steve2713]

Only Philips discs I've used are 2.4x +Rs, CMC R01, I've got several spindles. They're 2.4x discs and I burn them all at 8x (yes, 8x) on my NEC 2500. I've burned over 100 at this speed with not one disc even remotely approaching a coaster.

Now, obviously some people have genuine issues with CMC, just as ANY media is going to cause problems for some people. But I've burned 100's of CMC discs and the only time I've ever burned a coaster was from testing at burns faster than their rated speed, and this was only with one firmware. I know I'm not the luckiest person alive or even close to it, I fail to see why I've had ZERO problems after COUNTLESS spindles of CMC media and yet so many people CLAIM that they've had problems with CMC (I know many people that bitch about CMC have never even used them, just being lemmings and repeating the opinions of a few, calling the media garbage).

Here's one of my Philips CMC R01 discs, 2.4x media burned at 8x on my NEC 2500. Sorry, but these are incredible results, considering it's 2.4x media pushed all the way to 8x. This is a very typical scan, and the discs play with zero issues. BTW, this is tested on a Benq, which tests PIF at 4 times the rate of Liteons, so on most PIF tests these would a max PIF of 2 and a total of around 300, a GREAT burn :

[brownstem]

steve2713, good points, though my initial posting was with regard to those specific 8x discs, with their specific CMC media IDs. I don't know that every disc CMC makes is crap, but I know that the ones I talked about are. Thx.

[steve2713]

I've used the 2 media codes you had issues with extensively as well, with zero issues, but of other brands. I suppose I should have made a note of that, but I centered on the Philips discs I've used, since that is what you were specifically having issues with. I've also used a TON of these same R01 discs HP branded, and there was zero difference in quality between HP and Philips, for what that's worth.

[brownstem]

Well, all I can say is we can all pray for the day when media is sold by its ID, not it's effing brand. (Yeah, right, and tomorrow we'll discover WMD in Iraq.)

[Espen]

I bought some Philips dvd+r with cmc dye a year ago. I burnt first spindel, 5 coasters and the rest did have playback problems on many players. However they did work in my two players at home.

Did some tests with cd speed yesterday and almost all of the cmc discs failed to finnish the test. Tried some of them today, they did work in my players a year ago, now some didn't even play and all the others had playback problem. What a crapy media. I think I will have to back up all of them again, this time use Ty instead........

[brownstem]

That nomorecoasters.com site is useful, though the site says it hasn't been updated since September. With all the changes in media going on let's hope the guy who maintains that site hasn't stopped.

[steve2713]

That nomorecoasters.com site is useful, though the site says it hasn't been updated since September. With all the changes in media going on let's hope the guy who maintains that site hasn't stopped.

Agreed. That guy's site definitely has a few inaccuracies, although I get the feeling they won't be fixed.

[Ma_Jie]

Some mildly objective evidence, or any evidence at all for that matter, would be appreciated as well. :P

- MJ

[steve2713]

Some mildly objective evidence, or any evidence at all for that matter, would be appreciated as well. :P

- MJ

On the page, he has Optodisc -R media classified in the same category as RICOHJPN, Prodisc, and Ritek media. This is laughable, Optodisc -R media is horrible. At the same time he has CMC classified with the likes of fake media codes, LONGTEN, Yi Jhan, Matrix, AN31, etc. This is also a joke. I'll post you 100 scans of CMC media, I'd like to see anyone post one scan of any of the other media codes that I listed in the same category as CMC that can even approach it in quality. He's also got Optodisc +R media listed in the same category as fake media codes, etc. For as bad as Optodiscs' -R media is, their 4x and 8x media, OR4 and OR8, are actually EXCELLENT discs, some of the better discs I've used have been these 8x discs, and all I've seen says that both the OR4 and OR8 have been very good discs for others as well.

The site also explains away data loss on DVDs over a relatively short period of time as not being possible. And yet MANY people have experienced this firsthand, with evidence to back it up. Discs can and have deteriorated over a relatively short period of time, especially cheaply made media such as Princo.

The site for the most part does a good job of explaining what it intends to, but there are inaccuracies that exist on it.

[brownstem]

The folks at cdr-info.com ought to throw together some tests for various media IDs. I've always been very impressed with the thoroughness of their hardware reviews. e.g., http://www.cdr-info.com/Sections/Reviews/Home.aspx?CategoryId=1

[steve2713]

Cdfreaks.com has alot of users that post media tests in the forums. Alot of testing specific to a burner as well as media code specific.

[Ma_Jie]

In the BenQ forum, for example, they have a whole thread, many pages in length, with ACTUAL scans of burns. Very useful IMHO.

Thanks Steve for the info...and about the updating: MXLRG03 is very good media, yet there's no mention in it in any of the "classes."

- MJ

[richdvd]

CMC are crappy discs....as are Optodisc.
That's been proven time and time again.

[kisrum]

I bought a 25 stack of these Phillips at Office Max and they gave a refund. Don't know about Circuit City. Office Max has always been pretty cool about this.

Not a single one would burn on my NEC 1300.

[steve2713]

CMC are crappy discs.
Steve you keep using Memorex and I'll take my Taiyo Yudens. Give it up already man.

Ironic you mention that, I'm trying to rip a TY disc as I type this, I'm now trying it on my third drive to get it to rip, it's giving me read errors. I've got 100s of CMC in comparison and I never have had a CMC disc I was unable to rip. Even TY isn't without its problems.

Not a single one would burn on my NEC 1300.

I've got a NEC 1300 as well and I've never had problems burning them on it. They burned them fine with both stock and hacked firmwares, what firmware are you using?

[richdvd]

CMC are crappy discs.
Steve you keep using Memorex and I'll take my Taiyo Yudens. Give it up already man.

Ironic you mention that, I'm trying to rip a TY disc as I type this, I'm now trying it on my third drive to get it to rip, it's giving me read errors. I've got 100s of CMC in comparison and I never have had a CMC disc I was unable to rip. Even TY isn't without its problems.

It must be that "wonderful" BenQ.
I shutter to even think what happens when you burn a CMC with a BenQ drive.

[steve2713]

CMC are crappy discs.
Steve you keep using Memorex and I'll take my Taiyo Yudens. Give it up already man.

Ironic you mention that, I'm trying to rip a TY disc as I type this, I'm now trying it on my third drive to get it to rip, it's giving me read errors. I've got 100s of CMC in comparison and I never have had a CMC disc I was unable to rip. Even TY isn't without its problems.

It must be that "wonderful" BenQ.
I shutter to even think what happens when you burn a CMC with a BenQ drive.

Not sure what you're talking about, it was burned on my NEC 2500, and I've tried to rip it with my 2500, Liteon 163, and now the final test: Toshiba 5112. If the Toshiba can't rip it, it can't be ripped. I don't even own a Benq 1620 as I know you're referring to. I do own a Benq 822, but it was neither burned nor have I tried ripping it with that.

[steve2713]

I shutter to even think what happens when you burn a CMC with a BenQ drive.

Here, you can 'shutter' now:

CMC E01, 8x on Benq 822:

[victoriabears]

I think to decry a media out of hand is dangerous.

I have a LG 4120b burner and the philips burn fine(From Tiger Direct.ca)

What does concern me is that some people report that after a period their playability is changed.

Why would this be, dvd's are supposed to last, is it storage situations-what can you suggest.

Thanks

[brownstem]

Hey, whatever works for a given individual. If Steve has that kind of luck with CMC, that's fantastic. Personally I'll stick with the hundreds of Fuji 8x dvd+r discs (YUDEN000T02) I've bought at Best Buy over the past few months (all in those distinctive TY spindles, which close a bit differently). Also, utterly fantastic luck (as in one bad burn out of maybe 400) are the current crop of TDK 8x dvd-r (TTG02), also at BestBuy.

Then again, that's my particular combination of burners/players (NEC-2510, Plextor PX-716UF, and Sony DRU-710 / Sony 5-disc carousel, Philips DVP642). Change the equation and you get different results. It's almost like a recipe, if you think about it. Change the oven and 375 for 30 minutes ain't 375 for 30 minutes anymore.

I remember two years ago I took it as a challenge to find the absolute cheapest media that would work with my burner/player. But just when you were sure the house brand of a given online retailer was the perfect cheapo match there'd be a run of five bad burns in a dozen discs. After awhile it all gets very old. There's no need to pay a buck a disc for quality, but on the other hand what's the point of experimenting endlessly trying to find a 30-cent disc when you can have virtually perfect results for 39 or 40 cents, and never have to even think about it again (unless, of course, your brand changes media codes--Verbatim blew it with me by doing that)?

Personally I'd prefer to have Steve's luck, since perhaps he's got less finicky equipment on both ends of the equation. All I know is once you find the right mix, stick with it. Between the Fuji and TDK discs there's almost always one on sale at BestBuy. On the other hand, if any of us were really bright we'd simply be sure to keep plenty of bulk TY's around of both formats, now wouldn't we?