TMPGEnc, DVD2AVI, and audio mayhem

[homerpez]

OK. I apologize if this has been done to death, but I have to ask. First, a tale of how I have to get video from mt ATI Radeon to TMPGEnc, and out to a VCD. And have it still be wrong.

I start by capturing 29.976 frames/sec 640x480 mpeg-2 on the Radeon. This file will not open in TMPGEnc, so I make a project file using DVD2AVI. This makes the video project file and a (apparently just demux'ed) Layer-2 audio file. This file can't be used in TMPGEnc. There is a shown delay attached to the audio (which you can compensate for), but TMPGEnc does not do well re-encoding mpeg layer-2 to the same (you hear a whooshing, or ringing sound).

So, I have to use CLEANER 5 on the original MPEG-2 capture, to generate a proper WAV. Sounds good, so my problems are over, right? Nope. When I'm all done encoding in TMPGEnc, something just "isn't right". The audio seems encoded smooth, but it is out-of synch SO SLIGHTLY that is is annoying, but watchable. But ANNOYING. I'd be guesswork to find out what that microscopic delay is, I can't even tell if it's too early or late. But I can tell something is amiss (it's a cartoon, and I've seen the source video dozens of times to know).

This is insane. Does anyone else have a solution? Better/easier audio transfer? A different program?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-07-11 19:36:30 ]</font>

[griffin224]

Try adjusting your audio sync by 500ms, i had a voyager episode that was the same way. So i took the original stream, without of sync audio and video and save it to a different file, while in settings (in tmpgenc) telling it to load 0ms of audio before the video starts, if that doesn't work try telling it to preload -500ms, let me know!

[homerpez]

Here's what I've tried, this may be a solution, but an ANNOYING one...

OK. I'v determined that the .mp2 audio problem is with TMPGEnc only, so I can in fact use the .mp2's that DVD2AVI makes, I just have to "explode" them to WAV first. And, this allows me to use the figure that DVD2AVI comes up with for delay (it'll tell you in the filename).

Now here's what I have to do... the Layer-2 file from DVD2AVI has the extension ".mpa" or something like that. I try to convert using Cleaner, and it's so stupid it doesn't recognize the file! I go and change the extension to ".mp2", and it loads fine, and converts to WAV in seconds! Well, minutes anyway.

Now I can take the clean WAV file and put it into TMPGEnc, and set the delay to whatever the opposite of the file says (if it says -97ms, I add 97ms to the delay). This should work! I hope...

Seems nuts that you have to do this, I don't understand why TMPGEnc does so badly re-encoding the audio...

I'm even willing to try "Cinemacraft" encoder... even though it's $$$ and it looks like the "Lite" can't open anything but AVI's, and doesn't have multipass VBR... But I guess I'll try this one for now and see what happens...

[VidGuy]

You could also just use BBMPeg to remux the files - it has the ability to offset the audio from the video - Just remember, your eye can detect about 80-100 milliseconds of offset., so start off deciding which is first - sound or video, then add 80 milliseconds of offset and see how it goes, if still bad - add 80 more, etc......

[homerpez]

Hmm... I need to be educated (never used BBMpeg, except as Flask Plugin, and it didn't work for me well)...

I hope I get this right... I can take my originally encoded MPEG-1 audio/video stream (which features the delay), demux to separate the video/audio streams, then just remux then with the proper offset? Sounds too simple, so naturally I'm eager to try it!

This won't effect how the VCD will play on a standalone, will it? I've heard bad things about BBMpeg... or was it GOOD things? (so many progs are mentioned on the forum, it's easy to get confused)...

I'll try to find BBMpeg as a standalone app, and give it a whirl...

[homerpez]

No way. I just opened up a file with BBMPeg (or AVI2MPG or whatever) and it is so !@##$ confusing I can't use it. I can't even find how to remux it if I wanted to.

Looks like my screwy method (ATI capture --> DVD2AVI --> RENAME .MPA AUDIO --> CLEANER --> TMPGEnc) will just have to !@#$$% do.

Thanks everyone...

[VidGuy]

homerpez - go to the Edit link at the left - there's a section on using BBMPeg to mux - it's really not that hard once you know what to skip.... The link has lots of pictures.

[homerpez]

Now that I've tried this and sucessfully remuxed a movie, now comes the harder part...

the delay. I notice that in bbMPEG, there is automatically as 180ms delay for all tracks. This to me would mean that they all start at the same time, and essentially have a delay of 0ms (because they all begin at the same time). Then, if I had an audio track that had a -99ms delay, I would add the 99 to the "Audio 1" ms delay, for 279ms total. Does this make sense?

I'm also making a sad observation. Maybe it's just my system, but...

I think Toolame sucks. I've used it as an external plugin in TMPGEnc, made an "audio only" track, and the results are worse than TMPGEnc alone at 128k. There's ringing in the audio in people's voices, I think much worse than normal encoding.

Am I the only one to notice? Or is there something else I need to do? This is converting a nice-sounding 44khz WAV file (made with DVD2AVI) to the mp2 audio. TMPGEnc does sound bad converting /mp2 source audio to .mp2 target audio, but for WAV it's not as bad... and toolame is worse for that!

[VidGuy]

I don't know on toolame - I never hear ringing, but I rarely drop as low as 128K either - I usually do 192 or 224. As far as bbMPeg delays, you're essentially correct, except -99 ms means the audio starts BEFORE the video, so you need to add (you say add, but you really subtracted) -99 to 180 = 81.
Or conversely, you can subtract it from the video and make the video delay 279.
-VidGuy

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-17 09:19:28, VidGuy wrote:
I don't know on toolame - I never hear ringing, but I rarely drop as low as 128K either - I usually do 192 or 224. As far as bbMPeg delays, you're essentially correct, except -99 ms means the audio starts BEFORE the video, so you need to add (you say add, but you really subtracted) -99 to 180 = 81.
Or conversely, you can subtract it from the video and make the video delay 279.
-VidGuy
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

With toolame, maybe it is the fact that TMPGEnc remuxes it to the video at the end. I'll have to test that out.

But on the delay, that doesn't really make sense. Only because with TMPGEnc, when you take the file that's -99, and add 99ms to the delay, it synchs perfectly! I think DVD2AVI (which brands the file with the delay) tells us which direction the delay WENT, so you have to make it go the opposite way to line up again... at least this has worked for me so far...

I was only wondering on bbMPEG, since it pops up with some values I don't know of yet, like the 180ms delay on everything... wasn't sure ehow it works...