Best hard coat media? Datawrite titanium Vs TDK Scratchproof

[alexgeo]

Hi everyone,
i'm not into buying the cheapest DVD-R/+R anymore as i've been so disappointed when i last ordered in august 200 Philips DVD+R 4x which appeared to be Ritek R02 001.

As recording speed have reach the limit with 16x writers now the hottest thing about DVD media seems to be hard coating surface.

Since this december i've bought 100 perfect TDK Scrachproof (now named Durabis) DVD-R 4x (TTG01).
But they are much more expensive (from £1.09 = 1.57€ = $2.03 a piece in amaray dvd box on blankdiskshop.co.uk).

I've read also good reviews about the Datawrite titanium products (but does not seems as good as the TDK though).

And by the way, i've done a scratching test using steel whool this week end on a TDK scratchproof and a ritek, the result are truely amazing. Just a few minor scratches on the TDK which would even be playable afterward while on the ritek there is so many deep scratches on all the surface you can hardly count them (i could even post pictures if you want).

So, when you like to share DVDs with your friends or if you have kids around it's definitely the kind of media to consider.

So, who have tried this kind of media?
What do you think of it?
Any alternatives to TDK scratchproof products?

[noki]

alternative: 2 copies on high-quality TY or MXL media ($0.30-0.40 each on sale [Fuji or Maxell]), storing one away for safe-keeping.

[alexgeo]

Good idea Noki, though i believe that by this summer the price of TDK scratchproof media should have fallen to reach the price of regular high grade discs.

according to this TDK Europe press release[sorry in french only] ( http://www.tdk-europe.presscentre.com/corp/Releases/release.asp?ReleaseID=2086&NID=Press%20Releases )

[-jsl-]

The Datawrite discs have no hard-coat and are not more durable than any other generic media on the market.
Though according to Datawrite's own hype the disc's grey color, that is supposed to look like titanium, will make them more durable than Nasa's space shuttles

[alexgeo]

Thanks -jsl- for the info, so this Titanium thing is just another merchandising crap
Damn merchandising people, why do they ever have to lie to sell their products?...

[RickTheRed]

Btw,

Maxell just annonced their DVD-Rpro - scratch resistant.

The 4.7GB DVD-Rpro media features Maxell’s MAXPRO Hardcoat technology, which produces a media surface that the Company claims is 40 times more scratch-resistant, and 20 times more dust-resistant than standard DVD media. Its anti-static quality prevents damage in harsh or dusty environments, Maxell adds, as well as for applications that might require frequent media handling and interchange such as jukeboxes

I guess it will also be $$$

[alexgeo]

Thanks Rickthered for the info about Maxell upcoming DVD-Rpro.
By the way i've also read something the other day about Verbatim annoncing the same anti scratch products as Maxell, waiting to see what these really does and 1st of all how much they'll cost.
Because after all the TDK seems to be the most scratchproof of all these, but their're really worth their price.

AND if you'd like to see i've just scanned the 2 DVDs i've made kitchen steel whool test with (1 Ritek R02 and 1 TDK Scratchproof TTG01), let me know if you want to see these pics and i'll post 'em.

[Budmo]

I'm curious!

[alexgeo]

Hi Budmo, ok here is the picture... i think it speaks by itself, no?

[nerys]

I was buying a lot of Memorex 8x from radio shack (on sale for $13 for a 25 pack) since they appear to have a TOP coat. I can take a screw driver to the TOP side and it does NOT penetrate the data layer !! Nice

Now I have switched to SONY discs since they burn at 16x !!! hang on I will see how the top coat is

COOOLLLL !!! they also have the killer top coat since I scratched the crap out of one and NO oass through to the data layer

!

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[alexgeo]

Chris,
maybe i don't handle discs the same way as you do, but to me it seems more important to have the hard coat onto the bottom of the disc (data side).
Of course, i knew cheap media which top coat could be remove quite easily just by your thumb nail ; but it can't happen with scratchproof media, believe me 8)

[nerys]

I will have to look into this scrattch proof stuff

well I do a pretty good job of taking care of my discs but when I loan then out you would be amazed how many times I get them back and the top is scratched. I am not to worried about the bottom as I can REPAIR the bottom I can not however repair a top scratch that goes through the thin layer on cheap discs so no more cheap discs.

where are some affordable sources for 8x or higher scratch resistant discs ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[alexgeo]

Hi Chris,
if you are in the US, i've found a site where you can have them at $1.58 a piece, 8x DVD-R or +R in spindle of 100
( http://www.medianetsales.com/mns/catlist.asp?catid=25 )

i've also found a bristish website : http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/
£ 0.88 = $ 1.66, 8x DVD+R in videobox, free shipping worldwide over £ 300.

If someone know other places...

[nerys]

ouch forget those protection is not worth a 400% increase in cost !! (I pay 40 cents a disc)

even if I make doubles of everything as a backup (which I plan to do) I still save 80 cents per !

I want to play with DL but man $8 to $10 a pop !! forget that !

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[alexgeo]

I understand you Chris, but follow these products, i think that by this summer the price margin will not be the same.
Other media have already reached their lowest price while scratchproof discs price will continue to fall...

[nerys]

absolutely ! once they get under 60 cents a disc I will switch

will probably switch to DL if it proves reliable and it gets under $1 a disc I will not even "try" DL at $10 a disc

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[alexgeo]

Unfortunatly Chris i'm pretty sure DL media will never get under $3.

[gmatov]

Are you guys for real?

nerys: "when I loan then out you would be amazed how many times I get them back and the top is scratched. I am not to worried about the bottom as I can REPAIR the bottom I can not however repair a top scratch that goes through the thin layer on cheap discs smile.gif so no more cheap discs. "

Are you an idjit? A DVD has 24 thousndths of an inch of polycarbonate top and bottom. Scratch the **** out of the top, means nothing, unless you go more than halfway through.

You scratched the top "coat" with a screwdriver and , because of the paint, it didn't affect the recording layer?

Do you realize you are aligning me in the camp of them whom I have always fought who thought that you stupid newbies should not be allowed within 50 feet of any type of recording implement, let alone near this site?

Yunz have done so. I hereby request that newbies spend at least 168 hours on site before they be permitted to post stupid questions or even more stupid responses.

George

Edit: And, nerys, you are on shaky ground, here, when you say "When I loan them out..." in re backups or copies. I would not be surprised to see one of the gestapo point you out in the "Report bad Guys Here" thread. lotsa suckasses here.

[lordsmurf]

Two good points, George:

1. The top? What?

2. Loaning, huh? Better be legit.

[nerys]

I loan to family only IE others in the same household NEVER outside the household. period.

MOST of my movies are legit I NEVER loan out the originals they get stored after they get replicated and condensed. I have a hard case that stays in the closest with all the originals in it. I treat them like negatives. they only get taken out when they are needed (ie the copy gets hosed)

I guess I got into an exception because my first cheapo dvd-r's had NO poly carb top layer !! under the silkscreened or thermal label, whatever it is, was the DATA LAYER when I scratch through the labeling it went right into a shiny metallic layer that you could SEE through from the other side if you scratched it.

Its not really up for discussion I HELD them in my hands I have even managed to peel most of one off and the result was a totall transparent disk with some colored filmy stuff on it giving it a rainbow look (I am guessing thats the dye

since those discs were my only experience with dvd-r's to that point I had ASSUMED they were the norm.

When I got some prodiscs and saw they had TWO layers (top and bottom) I thought it was something NEW something special.

then the memorex and sony's were the same way hence why I old bought those. I thought this "extra" top coat was special or new.

apparently its not and I just had real shitty discs. I bet I still got some lying around if I find any I will take some pics and post for you all to see.

I take it from your less than curtious responce that this (no top layer of poly) is ABNORMAL for a dvd-r

BTW those discs. no idea who made them got them at a computer show. no log pure SILVE on top purple as usual on the bottom.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[nerys]

Here found one I took a pair of needle nose pliers and lightly scraped the TOP side of the disc and this is the result (huh I can see through the disc if I back light it !!) its also a LOT and I mean a LOT thinner and lighter than the other discs I have and you can clearly see 2 layers from the side of the newer discs while this one looks like a single layer from the side

http://www.nerys.com/disc.jpg

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[nerys]

"You scratched the top "coat" with a screwdriver and , because of the paint, it didn't affect the recording layer? "

I TYPED that wow thats bad even for me I must have tried to spell check it or something BECAUSE should be BENEATH as in BENEATH the paint layer not because of the paint layer must have had one hell of a brain fart when I typed that.

by the way the pic I posted is of one that does not even have a paint layer. just data layer it appears right there on top

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[gmatov]

nerys,

Excuse my sarcasm in the last. Supposed to be funny, rather than outraged.

Still, all DVDs are 2 layers of polycarbonate about .024 thick with the recording medium between them.

If you scratched that disk badly enough to see through it , either you used a moto-tool to grind it, or it's a CD, where the medium is on the top surface, with a coat of lacquer protecting it, and not all that well.

And all disks are the same thickness, it is the standard to which they are made, as well as how the lasers focus.

If that one is that thin, it is possible you somehow got 1 that delaminated, ie, half a disk, but I've never heard of that. If you have a cake box full of them, take them back, they're defects.

Cheers,

George

[nerys]

well they are definately dvd's (just burned another one to see if it would burn 2x max BTW supposed to be 4x)

they are also thinner (just put it side by side with a memorex and its much thinner not quite half though

it also FLEXES an awful lot more when I "bend it"

so clearly I got a bad batch. I am going through my collection now to "replace" any discs I made with those discs with the nrw discs. I am just gonna chuck the whole batch. (they were bought almost a year ago) I do not have many left.

BTW can I get CD's made like this ? (double poly layers ?)

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[gmatov]

No,

CDs are .048 thick, DVDs are .048 thick. CDs are .048 thick and stamped with the negative die, then "metallized", then sealed with a lacquer protective coat, either plain reflective or etched or painted, ie, sillkscreened.

DVDs are .048 thick, the top layer is stamped, with all the data, in the case of a movie, the whole movie, in the case of a burnable, with a very little bit of the data the burner has to know in order to adjust itself, calibration. Who made it, what process, what speed capable of, etc.

Both layers are .024 thick, together, glued under high pressure and accelerated cure, they will be within microns of .048 thousandths of an inch in total thickness.
Required. I do not think they will play in your machine, I don't care what brand/model, and above you may have said that, but I am not agonna look. Very improbable that you got more than 1 in a bundle, more likely not 1 in a million. Half DVDs simply should not, and most likely DO not leave the factory.

Sorry,

George

BTW, you should submit that to the Smithsonian, probably the first they have seen, too.

[nerys]

hehe well I had a bunch like that. I do not recall if they were all thin but they all had the scratchable coat on the top that if you scratch took the solver off as well ruining the disc

they did work BTW in my polaroid portable and cyberhome set top (love cyberhome plays almost anything

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/