Is this the right way to preserve family movies?

[pizzamandk]

After reading and reading and more reading on these forums I have come up with this method:

1. Capture video from DV cam to PC with Sony Vegas Movie Studio. Also edit it there.

2. Render to DV AVI in Vegas MV (what is the bitrate btw, should I be worried that it isn't high enough? Can the bitrate be altered in Vegas 5?)

3. Convert to MPEG-2 in TMPGenc Xpress 3 with deinterlacing filter applied and at 8.000 CBR.... As far as i know, Vegas hasn't got those filters or what?

4. Convert that once more to DVD files with TMPGenc DVD Author.

5. Save both the MPEG-2 and the DVD on different brands. And store them in separate places.


Ok I know it's a bit far out, but I'm just concerned ) And I'm only doing this with our precious family stuff, not with the sitcoms.

Anyway, does anybody have any comments? Workflow? Media? Format? Please speak up!

Thanks

Dan

[thecoalman]

After reading and reading and more reading on these forums I have come up with this method:

1. Capture video from DV cam to PC with Sony Vegas Movie Studio. Also edit it there.

After that the best way IMO to archive if you wish to preserve the original is cut it into 4.2 gig files and copy to data disc. (about 20 mins per disc)Mpeg is compressed and is of a lower quality that your original DV-AVI. From there you can use these discs for source footage, they are exact copies of what is on your cam.

Here's a link: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253284

BTW interlaced footage should never be dinterlaced unless your going to use it for a computer only application such as video for the web. Most softwareplayers filter the interlaced video for computer playback anyway.

[pizzamandk]

I know, I read that thread CoalMan thanks...but I'm just too lazy / don't have the time / don't have the patience either to split'em up, I don't have a DL burner, so with 3 DVDs a tape that's gonna be a lot of DVDs anyway, and who says that they will last for 10 years?

Anyway, I just made a head-to head comparison between 1 minute rendered with TMPG Xpress and and one rendered in Vegas (seems Vegas 5 can de-interlace too, I just didn't look the right place)...seems that the Vegas render is more smooth and with absolutely no flicker. I donno if it's because I watch the clip on a 50hz PAL TV or I messed with the settings..anyway I liked the Vegas render better! BTW the intention is to watch the video on TV of course!

[HRMaddie]

Not hard to split the AVIs with Virtualdub. I read a couple of guides, took me less than five minutes to split two home movies up. I backup all my AVIs onto a DVD and keep the original tape.

[thecoalman]

and who says that they will last for 10 years?

Who's to sat the mpegs are going to last? The reasoning behind my metod is simple. It's just to get a backup copy to disc, I only use a DV tape once so I have two copies of the original. At some point portable storage such as blu-ray will become the norm and I'll be able to transfer my video to there or what ever else comes along. The important thing to me is I have multiple copies at he best quality it can be which is the original footage. I guess to each his own.

BTW the intention is to watch the video on TV of course!

Then leave it interlaced your essentially destoying half the video. There really is no reason to ever deinterlace, at least for your average consumer. The only reason I would ever deinterlace footage would be is if I was going to distribute it via a website. That is the only plausible reason I can think of for deinterlacing.

[pizzamandk]

Interesting philosophy.. I'll give it a thought...

[daamon]

Interesting philosophy.. I'll give it a thought...

I'd suggest you do more than that - thecoalman speaketh the truth. TV's play back interlaced pictures. Therefore, your DVDs need to be interlaced as de-interlaced are treated as already stated.

Commercial DVDs are interlaced if that's anything to "give a thought" to...

[pizzamandk]

Ok you got me...I'll stick to that method and hope the media are readable in the (near) future *cross fingers*

[thecoalman]

Interesting philosophy.. I'll give it a thought...

Hardly a philosophy.... Not sure what your reffering too but...

If it's the storage method, DV-AVI is an exact copy of what's on the cam. For future use in new editing projects it's going to be your best source, not mpeg. Remeber mpeg degrades your video, slightly if your using a high bitrate but it still degrades it. As for how to store it I guess that depends on your situtation and if you want to spend the time doing it. You can always go back to the original tapes but you will only have a single original copy which again is why I suggest additional storage on DVD. Is this the best method? I don't know but it works for me and I can't think of a better way besides buying additional HD's.

If your reffering to the interlacing issue, see for yourself. Capture the same footage, leave the interlacing for one and deinterlace the other. Playback on your TV for comparison.

The DV-AVI format will be usable well into the future. You have no worries there. 10-20 years (or as things are progreesing now 2 or 3 years) years from now they can be converted to whatever is better when it comes along which will be a higher quality format which will more than be able to accomodate DV-AVI footage. Remember when your using mpeg your going backwards, think of it as a picture in a frame. The DV-AVI files equvilant would be the negatives.

[mikesbytes]

In 20 Years time, the quaility of your home movies is going to look pretty mundane compared with the home videos and TV's of 2025, so you really want to keep absolute maximum quality, as while the difference isn't that important today, the difference will be much more significant in the future.

[winifreid]

If you really want to watch these on TV, then edit them and author them to DVD. I can't imagine that you would ever want to re-edit them at some later date and thus need the original DV files.
4. I assume you are not converting with TMPGenc DVD Author, just authoring. You should select "Do not convert compliant mpegs".
5. What? you save the mpeg on one DVD and then author the same mpeg to another DVD? If so, this is not necessary.
3. You may want to take a look at 2 pass VBR instead of CBR. May or may not make a difference.

[thecoalman]

If you really want to watch these on TV, then edit them and author them to DVD. I can't imagine that you would ever want to re-edit them at some later date and thus need the original DV files.

If simply viewing them is what you want then yes you are right. but I'll say it again...... If you want to archive video for future use keep the DV-AVI, whether it's on tape or DVD. Eliminating the original DV-AVI is equivalent to throwing away the negatives of your still images.

[vhelp]

But the question needs to be asked, what will you be viewing these clips
with today, and tomorrow with ??
.
As we've seen (or learned) ..that we are discovering how crappy our previous
encodes have been all along, simply because we either applied a de-interlace
and/or other Filters to our (those) final MPEGs, and those that we've done
to CD/r/rw disks, we are transfering to DVD/r/rw disks today.., and we are
finding out that they are not looking like what did they did, on yesterdays'
tv set
.
And if a given project is for a Progressive type TV/DVD player, you're
mistaken *still* !! ..because these units or devices are expecting something
that *is* Intelaced (in addition to *true* Progressive) so that it *CAN* do
its great application of Progressive'izing a given Interlace (or Progressive)
source.
.
So, if you go an de-interlace, and play this in a Progressive type TV/DVD player,
you're not gonna be happy with the final results! Because these devices will
be splitting the frames again on these de-interlaced sources you throw at it.
That's why you need to *keep* the source as is, in it's true Interalce state
(or progressive) and let these new'er generation devices do there thing.., as they
were designed to do.., instead of throwing mist (confusion) around further to the
issue of quality.

In 20 Years time, the quaility of your home movies is going to look pretty mundane compared with the home videos and TV's of 2025, so you really want to keep absolute maximum quality, as while the difference isn't that important today, the difference will be much more significant in the future.

No matter how hard we try, (so true the words above)

.. you don't know how many times I've seen this (read this) in many posts
.. of users regrets for not listing, or paying attention, or hearing the
.. warning signs, about doing this or that in a Encode process/step/method
.. and then they come back just a year later to admit their mistake
.. or whatever, and wish they did it right the first time. So many times,
.. I said to (myself) told you so! (If you know the show, "will & grace",
.. just picture Grace singing this annoying/humiliating song) - oh well.

This user just doesn't get it, or is pulling out hair w/ the old clue-shay..
"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it"

So far, we' given this user good info, but instead, is insisting on applying
*cross fingers* in his/her jeorney toward the wrong way. Oh well. You can lead
a hourse.. never mind.

My recommendation is to keep the source as is, in DV AVI format, and store
them (burn them) on DVD's for later retreavl and further processing. A year
from now, you may develop newer and better skills, and you'll remember archving
to DVD disks, those DV footages, and pop them in and give your improved knowledge
a go with them. You can't do that if you go and distroy them w/ filtering and/or
applying to those footages the wrong applications.
.
As been said many times over.., de-interlacing only takes out, *not* add in.
Your DV source is 2 fields (240 pix) making up One Frame (480 pix).
When you de-interlace (using *any* software.. any) it is taking each Frame and
pliting one of the 2 fields (240 pix) and then resizing the 240 pix into
480 pix. Some softare app that include such de-interlace routines can do a fair job.
.
.. To those that are expereinced in the field of Video Editing, the true
.. attributes (source qualities/issues/etc) are easily seen. And just because
.. you can't see them today, I gaurantee you, you will, tomorrow when
.. things improve in your skills/knowledge/techniques/etc/etc or your TV medium
.. changes (ie, bigger TV; widescreen tv; etc)
.
But, they are not *retaining* the source's original quality level in its entire
time-line, becuase each frame was split and cut, and a field was thrown out,
and the field was resized (as I said above)
And if you then archive them in this final format, you'll never be able to
regain the trueness of these footages.

Still, I would just keep the footage on tape too. They'll last a long time,
I'm sure. And when things change/improve for you, you can be sure you'll have
something most probably, with better results than you did today.

-vhelp 3062

[trock]

2. Render to DV AVI in Vegas MV (what is the bitrate btw, should I be worried that it isn't high enough? Can the bitrate be altered in Vegas 5?)

If you do decide to use TMPGEnc for any reason, and you've done any editing in Movie Studio, you can skip an additional compression step by frameserving from Movie Studio (with the debug frameserver) straight into TMPGEnc.

[thecoalman]

@ vhelp .... you have a secretary to type all these posts up for you?

[vhelp]

@ vhelp .... you have a secretary to type all these posts up for you?

No. Actually, I do most all my response typing in notepad and just save
them each.. then I post. Then, I re-read them as they are, and whatever
errors/typos I find in my sentences, I do inside the saved notepad. Then
I repost the corrected/revised post.
.
.. Sometimes, I don't like what I said earlier, or I wish to rephrase
.. what I said (case it sounded harsh or upsetting, or I was just too
.. quick to judge) and I fix it
.
.. Also, a lot of times, I see a post (probably first one before others)
.. but I'm too busy composing it just right, because I want to be careful
.. of what I say or suggest or comment on. If I'm wrong, I'm told so, and
.. I move on, w/out pointing certain fingers.

That's about it.. Cheers.

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 3063

[pizzamandk]

I am convinced, no need for further argumentation! Now I know how to optimize my workflow: I'll go for DV AVI files for future use and a DVD for today's use.

Thanks again

Dan