VCD Conversion

[diginode]

I am very much unsatisfied about mpeg encoder. I have panasonic DV Camera. I am very happy to see the picture quality when I play camera and output direct to TV or camera movie saved in AVI_DV format(long space needed) and view by window media player in full screen mode.
My problem is that when I convert it to MPEG format in standard VCD resolution(352x288 PAL)
all quality, sharpness lost. I normaly use software encode such as cinemacraft 2.6/pinnacle Studio 9.0/Canopus Procoder etc.
Can you help me or any suggession to convert Hi quality AVI_DV file in Simple Standard PAL VCD format with good quality that will not be heassy or blockiness or mossaick atleast 1024/768 resolution monitor played by Windows Media Player in full screen mode.
Is hardware mpeg encoder is better than the software encoder for standard PAL VCD? If yes can you help which type card solve this purpose? What is your suggestion for VCD Authoring for Home Movie?

Thank You. I hope you help me and give any positive answer. I am very appresieate about you comparison on MPEG capture Card.
wait for your positive reply.

[jimmalenko]

VCD is always going to be blocky when viewed on a PC at full screen in Windows Media Player, because you're magnifying it roughly 3X to fit 1024 X 768, and nothing looks good when enlarged that much. Are you only going to watch these on the computer, or on a standalone DVD Player as well ? You might get better results using SVCD.

[ronnylov]

I suggest investing in a DVD burner because when converting to VCD and even as SVCD it is hard to get acceptable quality. I think Canopus Procoder is the best choice when encoding DV to VCD, SVCD or DVD. Use the mastering quality setting in Canopus Procoder and if you encode to SVCD or DVD encode it as interlaced.

[SatStorm]

You are a PAL user...
VCD by nature is raff compared to VHS. VCD has digital noise (blocks) and VHS has analgue noise. The real difference is that VHS is interlace and VCD, based on mpeg 1, is progressive. There is a way to create xVCD with mpeg 2 (playable and supported by DVD specifics) but that wouldn't help for real regarding the sharpeness...

Unfortunatelly, you have to convert to something that has full vertical resolution. That is 576 vertical lines for us, the PAL users. If you can't use DVD-Rs, and you are stuck with CD-Rs, then your best bet is CVD (352 x 576). But: It takes some effort to make it look acceptable!

First of all, you need to resize your DV source to CVD's framesize (352 x 576), apply some basic filters (for the things we don't see with our eyes, but the encoder do see and reacts during the encoding proccess) and then encode to 352 x 576 using the top possible bitrate and the best possible method. That to clearify this further, that means 2 PASS CBR (yes CBR: You have to emulate this by simply se minimum average and maximum bitrate to the higher possible - for cvds - bitrate) at 2540kb/s IF you use 192kb/s mp2 audio (yes, mp2, not mp3, optical disc based formats are based on mp2)

In other words, I suggest you to transfer a small portion of your DV stuff to your PC, load the dv avi file to virtualdub, resize to 352 x 576 using lanczons, and add 3 filters: Sharpness (6) Static Noise reduction (default settings, just tick the interlace source) and dynamic noise reduction (I suggest you the value of 10). Frameserve this to your favorite encoder and set to encode to CVD (SVCD actually) using min/aver/max bitrate or 2520kb/s & audio at 192 kb/s. Burn that later to a CD as a non standard SVCD using Nero and watch the results. You might like them... (also report back your thoughts about them)

[mats.hogberg]

2 PASS CBR (yes CBR: You have to emulate this by simply se minimum average and maximum bitrate to the higher possible - for cvds - bitrate)

Never seen this idea before - could you explain the advantage of this, compared to "real" VBR with min lower than avg, max higher than avg, and "single pass CBR"?

/Mats

[SatStorm]

2 Pass CBR offers a better pixel allocation per field / frame than a simply CBR. In theory at least...
IMO, it is a waste of time. But many report a difference, especially with DV home movies, so I mention it here.
Home movies are among the most difficult sources!

[mats.hogberg]

OK! But why not go "all the way" and do a real multipass VBR? Surely, that must be even better? Ah, I might have the answer myself: If you use VBR SVCD mpeg, max bitrate mustn't exceed max SVCD bitrate, so avg bit rate must be lower than max SVCD bitrate.

/Mats

[diginode]

Thnx SatStorm. I will follow your process and will infor the result.
now pls tell Hardware MPEG1 encoder is better than software encoder? What is merits and demerits irespective of price?

[SatStorm]

Don't even bother with mpeg 1...
But if you have to... better use a software encoder. A really good one, is the freeware version of TMPGenc

[diginode]

SatStorm this is no my question answer?

Software encoder most time cosuming.
Most of the people of my country use VCD player, It cheaper and popular. So I can not switch from MPEG1 to MPEG2.
I have to give output in VCD.

So, pls answer my question " hardware MPEG encoder performance is Better or not?"

If I use Canopus DV strom2 (hardware encoder supported) capture card what will be the performance?

Thanx

[mats.hogberg]

No matter what, hardware or software encoder, VCD is, besides being mpeg1, extremely limited - the resolution is 352*240/288 (NTSC/PAL) and max bitrate is 1150 kbps CBR only. Qualitywise you won't gain anything with a hardware encoder, even if the process might be quicker.

/Mats

[SatStorm]

Software encoders are better the hardware encoders for Mpeg 1.
The reason is that you can filter before the encoding (that helps because each frame has pixels and noise that our eyes don't see but the encoder do see and alocate bitrate to preserve them because it believes that it is a part of the picture) and you can emulate multipass CBR (IF you wish such a thing, multipass CBR for me is a waste of time but some advance users report better results that way) which you can not with any hardware realtime mpeg 1 encoder.


When you deal with VCD, CVD & SVCD you deal with issues because of the limited bitrate those formats have. The only way to eliminate those issues, is through software solutions, which is a VERY time cosuming root.


TMPGEnc does freeware mpeg 1 and it is among the best encoders for mpeg 1

Easy words: Hardware encoders have inferior results Software encoders

[alebertaz]

Try Provideo PV-231 or Darim Mg100 they have the best hardware encoder in real time and the quality is the same as TmpgEnc with standard settings for VCD...

[SatStorm]

You miss the point of filtering

[theDruid]

...also why would you want to spend money on a hardware encoder which produces quality... the same as TmpgEnc with standard settings for VCD... when TMPGEnc is free for MPEG-1?

On a decent computer, software encoding to MPEG1 isn't particularly slow either, as you're only doing one-pass CBR for VCD.

I would, as SatStorm keeps trying to say, try and improve your results with software filtering (also several free options for that - TMPGEnc's own filters, VirtualDub, AviSynth etc..) before running out and spending money on new equipment which will not improve the quality of your output!

cheers,
theDruid.