lordsmurf please look, personal observation.

[blinky88]

I went to your site (nomorecoasters) and downloaded the PDF file on DVD media and found it to be extremely informative, however, I am somewhat puzzled by your accessment of Princo DVD media.

In your summary you say "I have burned hundreds of Princo 4x Whitetops and the burns have been 99% successful". However, you rated Princo's as third class material.

I had many problems when I first started to backup my DVD collection which bought me to this site. Members of this site quickly pointed me in the right direction and today I have no problems at all, this REALLY is a GREAT SITE for all beginners.

Being an aged pensioner, I have been using Princo's simply because they are the cheapest blank media downunder. The ONLY COASTERS I have had (3), were USER ERROR. I play my backups often and the ones I burnt in the early days, still play perfectly, so I am simply curious as to why you would rate them as third class material.

.... 99% = 3rd class ???

[offline]

I cannot speak for LS but his rating may be because
many Princo's have burnt ok but failed after a period of months. This has happened to me with Shinco rebranded Princo media.

I also buy Princo's (Grade A) along with other
brands and have experienced few problems.

I'm betting you have a Pioneer burner like me
Pioneer & Princo seem to work well together.

[NamPla]

I've often wondered the same thing.

Has anyone else noticed that it's mostly Australians who don't seem to have a problem with Princos? Could there be any sort of reason for this?

[BJ_M]

they use the disks upside down

[canadateck]

It's the direction the disc spins..

[blinky88]

I have a Pioneer 106D and all burns have been made at 4x.

By this time next week I will have a Pioneer 108D (AU$115), a friend of mine is buying the 106 for AU$65, I figure the AU$50 upgrade is probally a move in the right direction.

[Fandim]

lol Canada..beat me to it.

LordSmurf dosnt rate media on his own experiences, either. He will post his oppinion, but then also judge the media based on a much broader review of the media...And Princo's have been known to be troublesome discs for a LOT of burners, as well as players... Some people swear by them (as some people swear up and down CMC is godlike..if it works for them, heh, great.)

Just like he has TY as first class media (no dispute there), but his burner hates him.

Seth

[blinky88]

Hi Fandim,

I do not agree with your statement as he refers to his observations with various types of media. I don't really think it would be prudent to make his judgements on other peoples experiences because he would not know for certain how they handle the media.

A friend of mine simply does not handle his backups with the same care I take. When visiting he often plays one of his backups and has problems with just about everyone of them.

I have found with blank DVD media sometimes the slightest mark can make the disc unplayable. There are many users not paying attention to the handling of their backups and this is possibly the reason they are having problems, then complain the media is bad.

All of my backups play though to the end, no problems at all.

[Fandim]

Blinky - he has several people (myself one of them) that submit results of all sorts of media ID's burned at various speeds, on various burners, with various firmwares, and describe their experiences with them, how they playback, etc. He dosnt go by his experiences *alone*, trust me. (again - see taiyo yuden).

[blinky88]

sorry, posted in error, see further comment below.

[Fandim]

Yep. But that's just one DVD writer. I personally have not had much luck with these...(about 1-3 wont verify the last time I bought Princo).

[blinky88]

Regardless of your input, his experience is a 99% success rate which I think would indicate they are reasonably good media. I would venture to say everyone on this site would be happy with that percentage.

I have read MANY posts from this forum and CDFREAKS confirming others are aslo achieving the same results I am experiencing and continue to use Princo without coasters.

Although you consider yourself to be a media god, have you considered your experiences may have been bought about by user error.

[Fandim]

Blinky - see that thing to the left that says "Lists"? Underneath, there is "DVD Media". try typing in "Princo".

Or perhaps, to make it easier, just click here.

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?dvdmediasearch=princo&dvdmediadvdridsearch=&type...+or+List+Media

You may snicker to yourself all you'd like, and think my bad experiences with Princo were 'user error'. It dosnt really matter to me, and I dont feel the need to defend my methods of burning, verifying, and testing to you.

Good day, Sir.

[blinky88]

I do not intend to pursue this matter any further but I would like to hear from lordsmurf.

[NamPla]

Has anyone else noticed that it's mostly Australians who don't seem to have a problem with Princos? Could there be any sort of reason for this?

It's the direction the disc spins..

I knew there had to be a logical explanation!

[blinky88]

lordsmurf,

I'm not trying to be a smartie, however, can you please clarify why Princo discs rate as third grade material on your web site when you have burned over 500 and had a 99% success rate.

[lordsmurf]

The NMC page is up to date.

However, the Princo comment is on another page that is 3 years old, the media "image archive", (says 2003 even, but is actually 2001-2002 data near the top). The discs were good early on. But that did not last past 1x days.

The site is undergoing updates this month. A hard drive crash in early 2004 lost a lot of the archive info.

Princo, much like RITEK, quickly turned to unsavory-quality media after a year or so. The 2x with fake TDK codes was not great, the 4x started pretty decent, but the quality dropped off pretty quick again. Several thousand PRINCO in my network of testers were about 20-30% or so failure rate. Not good at all.

Some of the worst PRINCO I have ever gotten came from Australia. Some stores even slap sticky labels on them and call it "inkjet" media. That took the cake.

I wouldn't take PRINCO if you gave it to me for free.

Princo media is usually bad past the 4GB area. People that "love" this media typically do not burn the disc full. I almost always have 4.25-4.35GB of content on a disc.

And suggestions of "data loss" ... read this:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248839

[Quantum]

When I got my first DVD burner (Pioneer DVR-106D) I bought some cheap discs from OfficeMax. Turned out they were Princo. They burned fine at 1x and played in my Apex DVD player but stuttered in my Xbox and stopped playing totally on a picky Sony DVD player. I switched to RitekG04 soon after that and it played in everything without a single stutter. I've recently switched to Taiyo Yuden because of longetivity concerns compared to the Ritek. We get Taiyo Yuden or Maxell Made in Japan media for 33-40 cents/disc weekly with sales at retail outlets in the USA so price is no longer a concern.

BTW: Office Depot has Maxell 15 packs for $4.99 starting tomorrow which are either TY or Maxell's own media if they say made in japan. Both excellent.

[blinky88]

Hi lordsmurf,

Thank you for the clarification, appreciated. I bought Princo from day one because of your 99% success rate with 500 discs and thought the rating of 3rd grade was a typo.

I'm surprised to hear you have actually gone to the trouble to buy Princo blanks from Australia, considering the postage charges attached to that purchase. Nevertheless, I have been using Princo and outside of the initial trouble I was experiencing whilst the burner was installed in an external USB enclosure (SCSI Command Abort) and also about 3 coasters bought about by myself, I haven't had a single coaster with Princo, very much the same experience you had in the first instance.

The backups I did almost 12 months ago, still play as they did the day they were burned.

I have 3 children aged 45, 44 and 43 plus 7 grand children aged from 13 to 24 years. When they visit, I note 'ALL' of them handle the discs with no respect whatsoever, that's the reason I bought the burner and started to backup my DVD's. I have also found the blank DVD media can be very susceptible to the slightest scratch, mark or fingerprint or such, which has bought me to the conclusion that many people simply do not handle the discs as they should and cannot play them a second time, then declare the media is bad.

Make no mistake there is bad media being offered for sale. Because of all the hype about 'Made in Japan' I recently bought blanks off ebay and learned soonafter the media code was TYG02. I burned three of the same ISO image and there were freezes, pixelation and other faults, I then burned the same image on Princo and it 100% OK. The TY's I purchased, were obviously fakes.

I have a few friends who have also started backing up their collection of DVD's and have had a problem or two. Handling the media was one and multi tasking the other. When they stopped multi tasking whilst making the backup, they ceased having problems. It's reasonable to assume 'others' are multi tasking during the process and blame failure on the media. Others just choose to burn faster than the disc manufacturer recommends, there are many reasons people have problems.

I am not able to make an assessment on Princo discs bought in the USA, but I can say without reservation, the Princo blanks I have purchased here in Australia have been 100% OK .... more importantly for me (an aged pensioner), they have continually been the cheapest. I have also noted, many users around the world including users in the USA, are reporting the same results with Princo as myself.

I found the information on your web site extremely informative when I first started backing up my DVD's. That said, I cannot understand your turn-about on the information thereon. I also do not understand your attitude in the post on SWISSTEC blank media made on this site. Do you believe everyone is a goose and you really are the last word when it comes to DVD blank media. The comments made by those members about their experience with SWISSTEC media was intended to help and inform other members. Unless you have also purchased those discs from Switzerland and have had personal experience with them, you are completely out of line by expressing an opinion and arguing any point on their findings.

This site is light years ahead of any other likewise site I have been to and it's bought about by the wealth of information members from all parts of the world put forward. Don't let your following on this site go to your head, your just another member who 'maybe' has something to contribute, you certainly are not 'the guru' I thought you were ..and.. certainly not 'the guru', you think you are.

Sorry, if I offended.

[offline]

blinky88,

There are always situations where what works for
an individual is not the same as the majority. I too
use Princo and had much success. Others have
reported massive problems - even in Australia.

Who is telling the truth?

We all are. We have different burners attached to
different computers with different media backed up
to play on different standalones authored with
different software.

Have you ever wondered why Princo is the cheapest?
It is because it has a bad reputation. Many stores
will not sell it and that leaves the odd super discount
vendor or the swap meets.

LordSmurf contributes alot to this site. He may say
things I disagree violently with on the odd occasion, but then I am hardly infallible and neither are you

[NamPla]

As a lot of people concede, Princo works well with Pioneer burners. I guess some of us are just lucky!?

I'm not sure what Princos look like overseas, but yes here their inkjet "surface" DOES look like a sticky label... Riteks look nicer.

If you're on a tight budget, here in Oz you really only have the choice of Princo or Ritek, which nowadays are about the same price...

I wouldn't be too harsh on the Lord Smurf! :P

(BTW Most complaints about Princo are about data loss over time - NOT so much that they burn coasters? BUT, LordSmurf suggests such "dye rot" is a lot of rot!? So, I think I would agree with Blinky88's suggestion that data loss is due to mishandling perhaps...?)

[arrived03]

all i use for myself is PRINCO with a LG burner & all my discs play flawlessly , some are coming up to 16 months old & no problems , so far i have burnt over 700 discs .

I agree the RITEKS look better when printed on , but the RITEKS don't like my DENON dvd player & they tend to skip .

PRINCO 4x are A$20 for fifty even slightly cheaper if you buy a couple of hundred at a time , so no complaints from me about PRINCO'S.

[Fandim]

Blinky, it really seems to me that you were not looking for an oppinion at all. Rather, you were looking for some sort of confirmation that the cheap media you're currently using is "A-OK!" in everyones books.

If LordSmurf had advocated PRINCO media, I'm sure the comments about 'not the guru' would have been mysteriously missing from your posts.

You dont need anyones permission to use a certain type of disc. You dont need anyones praise to use a certain type of disc. So why are you looking for it? If you wanted to praise PRINCO media, why not just start a thread, and explain your experiences with it? Not start a thread, asking for an oppinion - then when you dont get the response you wanted, start talking little masked dribbles of trash?

**Great** Princo works for you. CMC works very well for a lot of people, too. (Myself included, at least the media codes that I've tried.) However - I still would NOT condone using this media to anyone, based upon the amount of problems other users have had. 500 people I highly doubt have all 'mishandled' their media the same to get the negative results they've experienced.

Your comments about LS trying every type of media he has an oppinion on is foolish. There are far too many types of media ID's, especially regional media ID's, for one person to try them all. That is what I *tried* to say in an earlier post - but - it not being what you wanted to hear - you got all pissy, and refused to listen to an explaination. No one person can do everything themselves. People on these boards are not working against each other. It's more of a team-effort to come together, and share experiences, knowledge, and personal findings. That's what makes the community better. However, asking the same question, hoping to get a specific answer, and then becoming offensive towards someone who has earned their respect here when you dont get that one answer - does NOT help.

There are certain people on these boards who I've come to trust, and take their word as near-fact. Does this mean I always agree with them? No. Does this mean I believe their experiences? Absolutely. Even if I dont have the same experiences, it gives you a very good idea of perhaps how that certain type of media burns on THEIR burner, with THEIR setup, and knowing how they author/shrink/encode etc their files. When you see enough people you've come to trust, all post negative experiences with a type of media - why waste your money?

I'm sure if LordSmurf had the funding of Bill Gates, and all the time in the world, he'd be happy to try each and every individual media ID, on each burner, with each burning program, using various processors, at all the burn speeds, using hacked, and non-hacked firmware, on MAC's, PC's, using every operating system known to mankind, just for you. But he's only one person. Realize that. Running a website that contains reviews of TONS of media, takes more than one person's experiences. Realize that. The information provided on his website wouldnt be nearly as accurate, either, if it were all just from his own, personal experiences. Realize THAT.

I'm sorry you couldnt find the response you wanted here, truely, I am. But please, until your attitude changes, or you learn how to constructively add to the community...Go away.

Seth

[offline]

I think I would agree with Blinky88's suggestion that data loss is due to mishandling perhaps...?)

I had several boxes of Shinco rebranded Princio media that
failed to read after several months. All in the
boxes died including some that had never been read
or only carefully tested once.

mishandling? No.

[blinky88]

I was a little disappointed with his response, after all, I did buy Princo because of his report of 500 Princo burns with a 99% success rate, fortunately for me, they happen to be the cheapest and have been flawless.

I still have a lot of learning to do and depend on members of this site to educate me. To date, I am making backups without any problems at all, which is a direct result of help from other members.

I have put forward some common problems I have observed by watching others since I became interested in the subject.

I was shocked by his remarks in the post on this forum about SWISSTEC DVD media. In fact, his remarks in that discussion really got to me and I tend to call a spade a shovel, no offence intended.

[Fandim]

What speed exactly are you burning at? And what's the meida ID of the disc? Also, are you burning FULL 4.37gb discs and getting these good results consistently? Just curious.

[talk]

I have had a lot of problems with Princo disks (CompUSA brand) High failure rates to start with and then many of those that finalized failed after a few months (and were stored in DVD cases). My other brands of media still work fine.
Bought two spindles at the same time on sale, and ended up throwing most of the second one in the trash. Like LordSmurf, I would not take them if you gave them to me. Not worth the hassle. Good media is now too inexpensive to fool with this stuff.