Selecting a VCR

[anitract]

Hey everyone. If you recall, I recently posted about selecting some hardware for capturing vhs/8mm home videos (LINK). I got some exellent advise, which ultimately helped me finally decide what route to go for my job.

For those curious, I decided on an AIW card (9600) and a Tvone AVT-8710 as TBC.

I am posting today because I have NOT yet decided on one of the most critical components of my setup - the vcr. The high end JVC S-VHS machines (7000s, 9000s, etc) are so recommended that its hard to even find recommendations on anything else!

Is this a good, or bad thing? I wonder...

I, of course, want excellent picture quality. Am I to assume that JVC is the King of VCR with the said S-VHSs? Or are there others that are underrated (like those old sharps that I hear so much about)? I would prefer something that I could buy new...

Please, anyone, jump in on this one. Since I am getting a standalone TBC, perhaps that could be a factor.

All that said (and I am sorry for the rambling), some options at this point are:
+A used 9000 series
+A used 7000 series
+A new SR-V10U

....I am not sure which, if any, of these units is actually "the best" since they all have the digipure (or whatever its called) feature...

I would prefer to go the new route and spend no more than $250 or so. Let the replying begin....heh..........

[DereX888]

I dont understand why you need S-VHS VCR if you want to transfer standard VHS tapes? Yes, they are excellent machines, but unless you are going to record any S-VHS tapes (which most likely you won't since you have ATI AIW card now) you don't need them. Therefore any decent standard VHS VCR with S-VHS playback ability available now for less than $100 should suffice enough. Standard VHS has much lower resolution than S-VHS, even if you would use S-VHS VCR's S-Video output instead of RCA on a standard VHS.

I can't recommend you any of the new VCRs since I haven't bought any for ages, but Im sure someone else will. My point is: buying S-VHS VCR is just like blowing money on a good, but outdated technology, like spending couple hundred $ on some excellent audio cassette deck just to transfer your old tapes to mp3s... If you already have it - thats great, keep it, but to buy brand new one now? Pointless

[anitract]

As I understand it from reading the forums, the JVS S-VHS VCRs are highly recommended for transfering normal vhs tapes because of their exceptional playback quality...which is all I care about; hence this post.

Anyway, I do agree with you...why spend the money if there is something cheaper out there or if I all ready have something that will suffice? In a nutshell, this is what I am trying to decide; if I buy a stand-alone TBC, is a highend JVC overkill?

[DereX888]

IMO yes, it is overkill.
Decent multihead VCR + TBC is as good as it gets with VHS->DVD transfers, that was my point.
I would search for VHS with Dolby B or C Noise Reduction on linear audio tracks, I find this little option most useful. If some old tapes are not recorded in Hi-Fi mode but in some plain vainilla stereo (or mono), Dolby B/C NR will remove nicely all the usual tape noise from audio track. Ofcourse you can demultiplex your captured video and do the same and more with most of the audio editing softwares, but me - Im lazy, I rather just press a button on VCR and have it done on-the-fly

EDIT:
The most important is the quality of your source. If the tapes you are going to transfer to DVD are crap, no matter what you'll use, how many TBCs you add, how many passes you'll use with CCE - it still will look like crap.
In a nutshell - if your sources are best possible quality studio-made VHS tapes, then most of cheap-o standard VHS's playback captured through your TBC with your ATI card will produce quality as good as the original tape itself, while transferring some crappy SLP-mode, mono, recorded on 2-head VCR back in 1985 tapes even if played from best JVC S-VHS VCR will still end up in crap quality.
Unless youre opening a studio and youre going to provide some pay services - then ofcoz get best possible equipment you can afford (you'll deduct their cost from taxes anyway )

[gshelley61]

DereX888 - you are mistaken. There is a huge playback quality difference between a standard composite output VHS machine and high end S-VHS units like the JVC 9000 series models. First of all, the nicer S-VHS machines have better tape heads, a more stable drive mechanism, and will often have a built in video processor that includes a line TBC, video noise reduction and edge enhancement. This results in VHS playback that is superior to a typivcal VHS only unit. S-VHS machines also have s-video signal output... VHS actually does have the luma and chroma information in separate areas of the tape, so having s-video out is a big advantage. I think you would be surprised by how good a decent commercial VHS tape can look when played back on a high quality VCR.

anitract - the JVC HR-S9600U is considered by many to have the best playback quality among consumer S-VHS VCR's. Followed by the 9800, the 9900 and the 9911. The 9500 is also very good, and was the first JVC S-VHS machine to include the 4MB TBC/DNR processor. The HR-S7600U is the best of the 7000 series units. The "pro line" SR-V10U is identical to the consumer HR-S7900U.

Another S-VHS VCR with very impressive VHS playback is the Sony SLV-R1000 (also the SVO-2000, which is the pro version of the same machine). Some people really like the Panasonic AG-1970 and 1980 models, which feature a full field TBC and DNR, but I was not impressed with the two 1970's I had. The JVC and the Sony units I mentioned look much better, IMHO.

[anitract]

gshelly61,

Comparing the 7000 and 9000-series: is it simply the 4MB vs 2MB TBC that differs their picture quality, or what? Or are they nearly identical in terms of output picture? I ask, since you have owned one of both.

Basically, I am trying to decide whether the higher cost of a 9000-series is worth it...that is, if their is a great increase in picture quality between the models.

[davideck]

anitract - I have a JVC HR-S7600U and a HR-S9600U and I have never been able to identify a performance difference between them. The transports even look identical.

I find the artifacts introduced by the DNR function to be significant enough that I prefer to do without it unless I am dealing with a noisy EP tape. The transports in the 7000 and 9000 series are not as stable as the older JVC machines (HR-S5400U, HR-S6800U, HR-S6900U, etc.), so for VHS and SVHS tapes recorded in SP mode, I typically use my 6800. It provides a more detailed image than the 7000/9000 units with their TBC/DNR turned on, and a more stable image than the 7000/9000 with their TBC/DNR turned off. I wish that JVC had allowed the internal TBC to be used without the DNR function.

[anitract]

davideck,

Interesting...I don't think I have heard this take about the JVC VCRs before.

A couple of things:
1. The lower-end models are "known" to break down more easily than the 7000/9000s. They are less durable (or so everyone says). What do you think of this in relation to the 6800 that you own?

2.What do you mean by "the transports in the 7000 and 9000 series are not as stable as the older JVC machines"?

[davideck]

anitract -

1) I would expect the newer JVC machines (2901, 3901, etc.) to be less durable than the 7000/9000 series. Lots of plastic where metal should be. I also have a HR-S3600U, and its transport looks identical to the 7000/9000 series except for the Dynamic Drum, so I would expect that a 3600, 4600, etc would be as durable as a 7600.

2) My statement about transport stability refers to the amount of timebase jitter that a VCR introduces during record and playback. Vertical transitions that were originally perfectly straight and stationary may wobble a bit after being recorded. The JVC TBC does a great job a removing this timebase instability, but my claim is that the 6800 playback is more stable (vertical lines are straighter) than a 7000/9000 series with the TBC/DNR off. If you plan to have the TBC/DNR function on, then the 7000/9000 will provide a more stable output.

Someone else on this forum once suggested that including the TBC/DNR allowed JVC to reduce the cost and the stability of their transports; I agree.

[anitract]

That makes sense. There are just too many routes I could go though. *sigh* I hate researching almost as much as I hate making up my mind about my researching.

Established fact is I am getting a stand-alone TBC. That's all I know.

Another brand I was looking into was Mitsubishi...the HS-U776 in particular. If I went this route though, I'd be getting a used VCR, which I'm still not sure if I like the idea of doing.

[davideck]

anitract - I sympathize with your dilemma; the more you know, the harder it is to make the "right" decision. Ignorance is bliss!

I should also mention that the Dynamic Drum System that many JVC VCRs have (7600, 9500, 9600, etc.) allow them to playback almost any tape. This system dynamically tilts the scanner to optimize the tracking in a way that other VCRs can't. I have read your original LINK, and given the range of tape qualities you mention, this feature may be valuable to you.

I have accumulated many JVC VCRs over the years, so I have the luxury (or the curse) of selecting the "right" one for each tape. But I must say that if I was only allowed one VCR, it would be my HR-S7600U because of the TBC/DNR option and because of the Dynamic Drum System.

[gshelley61]

davideck is right about the older high end JVC machines like the 6800 and 6900. They were built like tanks and have rugged, precision tape transports. You could look for one of those and use an external TBC and enhancement processors (Proc Amp, Detailer, etc.) when required. The only drawback of those machines is age. They are all at least 10 years old now.

Another good choice is the pro line JVC BR-378U. No TBC, but it has a heavy duty precision transport, video noise reduction, color saturation and sharpness adjustments, and I/Q white balance controls. Plus, all that stuff can be bypassed individually. I have one of these and it is a great machine.

[BrainStorm69]

If you want to see a sample screen cap from several different makes/models of VCRs (EDIT: including a couple of the JVCs), try here:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228269&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc...highlight=m784

Screen caps obviously don't tell the whole story, but can help.

[anitract]

Does the SR-V10U have the Dynamic Drum System...I'm assuming yes since it is basically a 7900 replacement?

Also, do all of these JVCs (7000/9000/SR-V10U) have a 3D comb filter?

I tried finding a JVC BR-378U for sale to see how much those run, but came up empty on eBay and Froogle.

I will say that right now I am leaning towards the SR-V10U, since I can get it new and it seems to be equal to the other models.

[TheFamilyMan]

Just to throw in my two cents...

I bought the JVC SR-V10U solely for its TBC, noise reduction and picture enhancement features, as well as for its price and availability. It performed minor miracles on some old home video VHS footage that I thought was a lost cause in trying to capture. But when given excellent quality tapes to play, I was disappointed with its playback quality (with or without the TBC/noise reduction). My 6 year old panasonic VHS VCR runs circles around it when it comes to VHS playback picture quality, IMHO. What's the quality problem? Picture detail and clarity. I'm not saying the SR-V10U picture quality is bad, it's just that no matter how I tried to tweek the SR-V10U, it never matched my other vcr's picture quality. And by the way, the exact same kind of cables were used when I made this comparison.

[DereX888]

Well, to reply to some of the above:

I had Pana AG-1970 in the past, and I still have JVC BR-7000u at home.
I agree JVC has somewhat better output probly due to better TBC built-in, *however* the difference between them can be seen when picture captured on DVD is blown on a 3x8m (meters) screen wall at my work. I doubt you could tell the difference on any regular home tv at all.
but again:
I see no difference in picture quality between captures made of off jvc 7000 and my run-of-the-mill samsung or pana VCRs captured through standalone Sima TBC.

If you really need/want jvc 7000 i can sell you mine, just PM me.

EDIT:
I just saw same jvc for just $20 on ebay, not broken or anything , well - if theyre so cheap nowaday, just go get it (I won't sell mine that cheap for sure, I rather keep it).

[anitract]

Those ebay auctions tend to jump towards the end...so...who knows?

[BrainStorm69]

But when given excellent quality tapes to play, I was disappointed with its playback quality (with or without the TBC/noise reduction). My 6 year old panasonic VHS VCR runs circles around it when it comes to VHS playback picture quality, IMHO. What's the quality problem? Picture detail and clarity. I'm not saying the SR-V10U picture quality is bad, it's just that no matter how I tried to tweek the SR-V10U, it never matched my other vcr's picture quality.

I think it depends on your picture preference. I agree that the JVC's don't provide the maximum detail (my Panasonic PV-V4820 S-VHS does better), but they also don't have as much noise/graininess (partially because of the DNR, but even with the TBC/DNR off the picture isn't as noisy/grainy). I happen to prefer to capture more detail, and then use the noise filter in TMPGEnc, but it adds considerable time to the encode.

[tipstir]

Even the cheapest SONY HI-FI Stereo 4 head 19 micro has the best picture for VHS in SP and even EP. I had JVC and spend a lot on the top end model, and it only lasted 1 year. Not surprised even Funai Corporation (Emerson Hi-Fi Stereo 4 head 19 micro are just as good as SONY in SLP)