How many hours of VHS on one disc and maintain quality?

[sync]

I'm waiting for a VCR to arrive that will replace my old one that died. I'm wondering how many hours of VHS you can get on a disc without losing the original quality.

[daamon]

...on a disc..

As good as the people are here, you'll have to help the majority who aren't psychic or don't have a crystal ball... What type of "disc" - CD (what capacity), DVD5, DVD9?

Are you encoding to Divx, VCD, SVCD, DVD?

D1 or half-D1 resolution?

[sync]

I figured it would be obvious in the 'DVD Recorder' section - DVD discs. I have a Pioneer 220S. I'm not sure how it handle resolution.

[daamon]

I figured it would be obvious in the 'DVD Recorder' section - DVD discs. I have a Pioneer 220S. I'm not sure how it handle resolution.

I believe that some can record to other disc types and or formats, though don't know any brands / models as I'm not (yet) into DVD recorders. I don't know if resolution can be set, but thought I'd throw it in while I was at it...

Update your "Computer Information" in your profile - there's a field for entering what DVD recorder you have...

[handyguy]

4 hours for me with a panasonic dvd recorder.

[rhegedus]

Depends on the resolution.

Those of us who capture to PC and encode rekon 3000kbps at half D1 is sufficient for VHS to DVD encoding.

That works out at 3 hours of VHS content per DVDR.

[zorankarapancev]

1.There is nothing like a “lossless” conversion. The point is how much of it you are willing to accept.

2. The quality of the conversion will depend on the quality of the VHS tape, the quality of the DVD recorder, as well as the quality of the monitor (TV set) that you are using to watch the recordings.

3. If you want to have your tapes converted to DVD’s with the minimal (undetectable) loss of quality then you have to use the 1 Hr mode. If you do it that way you will never loose sleep thinking of how much quality was compromised.

4. Because the 1Hr mode is not very practical, you will probably have to move to the 2Hr recording mode. The quality will be excellent (just a notch below the 1Hr mode) for capturing VHS tapes and therefore it will make you very happy.

5. Everything over 2 Hr will be a challenging for any DVD recorder.

[edDV]

Good quality from VHS SP mode = 2hr DVD
Compromised quality = 4hr DVD

noisy sources like EP VHS will challenge MPeg2 encoders even more..

[ZippyP.]

Some recorders have a 3 hour mode that I understand can be pretty good quality, but it depends on the brand.

[sync]

My recorder has 32 different speeds.

I just did some testing and found that the 3 hour mode records at 352x480.

[Frobozz]

The Pioneer has 32 different settings for how much you can record on a disc. The operating manual has a table that shows certain points "where there is a noticeable change in picture quality." You'll notice those points are different depending on if you are recording in VR mode or Video mode. In general, I recommend recording your Video mode DVDs in the 140-minute or shorter group for best quality.

You might want to do a test DVD-RW in VR mode where you record the same content at a variety of manual settings to see where the picture quality becomes unacceptable to you.

[lordsmurf]

Usually just about 3 hours of live action materials, sometimes up to 4 hours. Cartoons always can go up to 4 hours.

BUT A LOT OF THIS DEPENDS ON THE CAPTURE CARDS, SOFTWARE ENCODERS OR THE DVD RECORDERS.

Inferior equipment will look like crap.

JVC (up to 4), Pioneer (up to 4), Sanyo (up to 3), and hacked LiteOn's (up to 3, sometimes 4) are the only recorders I've really seen that look top-notch at 3-4 hour settings. Most recorders, as was posted in the "Panasonic tips" sticky, should be BANNED from using anything past 2-2½ hours because it looks like crap (macroblocks, etc).

MPEG capture cards like ATI AIW and Hauppauge are really the only good options here too (within normal budgets).

Most mainstream encoders will also do fine: TMPGEnc, Procoder, MainConcept, maybe CCE, etc.

[Capmaster]

2 hours

[sync]

Since VHS is a low resolution source, should 4 hours at half resolution give similar results to 2 hours at full resolution?

When the vcr arrives I'll do my own tests. But I would also like to understand this from a theoretical perspective.

[Epicurus8a]

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. (Sorry for that.)

MN19- MN32* is 720x480 @ +/- 6.0Mbps.
MN7 - MN18 is 352x480 @ +/- 3.0Mbps.
MN1 - MN6 is 352x240 @ +/- 2.0Mbps.

IMO, use MN19 - MN31 for highest quality. (140min. - 65min.)
Use MN7 - MN18 sparingly. (270min. - 150min.)
Use MN1 - MN6 if you really don't care. (360min. - 285min.)

NOTE*:If you you use MN32, you'll get LCPM audio instead of AC3 audio. However, I understand the bit rate on the video goes down a little (compared to MN31). I haven't varified that, though. You can do your own test recording, then press the DISPLAY button (on the remote) during playback to check the bit rates.

[nmtk]

The Pioneer has 32 different settings for how much you can record on a disc. The operating manual has a table that shows certain points "where there is a noticeable change in picture quality." You'll notice those points are different depending on if you are recording in VR mode or Video mode. In general, I recommend recording your Video mode DVDs in the 140-minute or shorter group for best quality.

You might want to do a test DVD-RW in VR mode where you record the same content at a variety of manual settings to see where the picture quality becomes unacceptable to you.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. (Sorry for that.)

MN19- MN32* is 720x480 @ +/- 6.0Mbps.
MN7 - MN18 is 352x480 @ +/- 3.0Mbps.
MN1 - MN6 is 352x240 @ +/- 2.0Mbps.

IMO, use MN19 - MN31 for highest quality. (140min. - 65min.)
Use MN7 - MN18 sparingly. (270min. - 150min.)
Use MN1 - MN6 if you really don't care. (360min. - 285min.)

NOTE*:If you you use MN32, you'll get LCPM audio instead of AC3 audio. However, I understand the bit rate on the video goes down a little (compared to MN31). I haven't varified that, though. You can do your own test recording, then press the DISPLAY button (on the remote) during playback to check the bit rates.

I noticed this in my Pioneer 520 manual and it confused me that the "noticeable change in picture quality" - which I am interpreting as a change in resolution and not just in bitrate - is at different points for VR and HDD/Video mode.

Sometimes I want to transfer something off the HDD and later put it back on... I'd prefer to avoid multiple re-encodes every time I do that, if it's possible, since it seems like that would reduce quality.

Does this all mean that:

1) if I have a recording at MN21 (120 min) for which the resolution is the same for both VR mode and Video mode, I can get essentially a lossless data transfer from the HDD to a DVD regardless of whether I am in video or VR mode?

2) but if I am at MN19 (140min mode), there will have to be some sort of re-encode if I transfer it to a DVD in VR mode, but I'm OK in Video mode?

Or is there always a loss no matter what?

Thanks in advance for any clarity anyone can bring to this...

nm

[lordsmurf]

VR usually has more resolutions. VR allows 544x480, 480x480 and a couple others. Not DVD-Video compliant, however, so don't plan to watch these on another player anytime soon.

[jossy]

Maintain good exceptable quality- 2 Hours max

[lordsmurf]

Since VHS is a low resolution source, should 4 hours at half resolution give similar results to 2 hours at full resolution?
When the vcr arrives I'll do my own tests. But I would also like to understand this from a theoretical perspective.

In theory, yes.
In practice, no. At least not often.

Read my earlier post. A bit more insight into "why" is put there.