which one of these is best?

[dazco]

Being a newbie my brain is overloaded after reading the capture card reviews here. So i'm hoping i can get some advice on what would be best for me and whether the 2 i found that seem to have good reviews and fit my requirements are good. First my requirements....

Cheap ! Yes, i know that will piss a few of you off, but please understand that i only need to transfer a few VHS tapes to PC and burn em, then may never use it again or at most very seldom.

MPEG2....i need to be able to capture or convert to this in case i wish to make DVD's of them.

RCA input to take signal from VHS deck

no audio sync problems...i've seen this mentioned many times, and since i will be transfering live music videos it's real important.

software that a noob can deal with

compatibility with my 9800 pro

Ok, so those are my main concerns, tho being a noob i may be missing some things i havn't thought of. The 2 cards i found that seem to be the best for my requirement are the Leadtek WinFast TV2000 XP Deluxe and the AVerMedia AverTV Studio. As you can see i'm leaning towards the $50 and under range since i really won't need it after a few transfers. My system is P4-3.0 on an asus P4C800 deluxe with a gig of geil dual channel and 2 drives, storage being a 160 gig.

Please understand that i'm not looking to get deep into video transfer and creation. I just need a cheap card that will work well without forcing me to spend endless hours learning the ins and out of video and without causing me a ton of headaches, because once again, i only need to transfer a few tapes. (i don't even make tapes anymore...these are old tapes that are important to me so i just want them on CD/DVD media) I do want as good a quality as a $50 card will allow tho, so any cards i'm missing that will fit my requirements and give relitivly great quality, go ahead and recommend them if you will.
Thanks

[redwudz]

I like the AVerMedia AverTV Studio as long as we aren't talking about quality of the finished product. The output is OK, but for quality it's best to do it the 'hard' way. Capture to AVI and encode.

Sync issues are more common after editing. If you avoid that, so much the better. Capturing directly to MPEG-2 you will be unlikely to get great quality, but if the VHS source isn't the greatest quality, you may not notice the difference.

[dazco]

How about this one...AverMedia EZMaker PCI ? I read a post about it and it seems to be quite good. But then being a noob......

[dazco]

Ok, i decided after reading a lot here that it's a toss up between the AverTV Studio redwudz mentioned and the AverMedia EZMaker PCI. But i can't make a decision due to the fact i don't understand certain things when reading the specs. For example, the fact that one will specify a perticular function while the other doesn't even tho i read elsewhere it does support that. And i just don't know enough about video to even know whether MPEG2 means that the hardware is capable of capturing MPEG2 or if that means SOFTWARE support of MPEG2.

So if someone could look at my first post and tell me which one of these cards would better fit my requirments i'd appriciate it. i'm simply interested in capturing video from an analog input to a format that will allow me to burn SVCD or DVD that will look as good (or very close) as the original VHS when played back on my standalone DVD/SVCD player on my TV. If the one with the tuner is as good for my purpose i'd go for that. But otherwise it's just the cherry on top and if the one w/o it is slightly better even i'd go for that instead.

[FulciLives]

Both of these are good capture cards but you will get a slight edge in quality with the AverMedia EZMaker PCI vs the AverMedia AverTV Studio. However please note that the AverTV Studio totally ignores all forms of copy protection whereas the EZMaker PCI will not capture when the source has copy protection.

If you go with the AverTV Studio (or the AverTV Stereo which is the same but lacks the FM radio feature that the AverTV Studio has) then you pretty much HAVE to capture in AVI because these 2 capture cards have an "odd" aspect ratio of 688x480 for NTSC or 696x576 for PAL ... so you have to capture in AVI at that resolution then use a software encoder where you can "pad" the image. For instance with a NTSC capture at 688x480 you would want to pad it up to 720x480 by adding 16 black to either side. This can't be done when you capture so doing a direct to MPEG-2 capture is a bad idea.

However the AverMedia EZMaker PCI has an aspect ratio of 704x480 with NTSC (or 702x576 with PAL) so you can do MPEG-2 capture because 704x480 is a DVD friendly resolution (as is 720x480). With PAL when you capture 704x576 you are only "streching" the image by 2 whole pixels (from 702 to 704) so this is not noticeable in any way, shape or form.

Please note though that all of these Avermedia capture cards do MPEG-2 capture in software ... these are NOT hardware MPEG-2 capture devices. So you have to have a very fast computer ... probably at least a P3 2.4Ghz with 512MB RAM ... otherwise you risk having problems especially at high resolutions and bitrates (you can for instance do 352x480 for NTSC or 352x576 for PAL and that would ease the load on the computer and is still in a format "friendly" to DVD).

Either way these are a good choice but consider doing AVI capture followed by a software MPEG-2 encode.

If you really insist on direct to MPEG-2 capture then you might want to look at the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150 which is a hardware MPEG-2 encoder. I think it is on sale right now for around $80.00 USD give or take. As I understand it the 150 model is new but basically has all the same features as the 250 model which has been around for a bit and has proved inself as an excellent hardware MPEG-2 capture solution.

Here is a website with some info on the Hauppauge line of products:
http://www.shspvr.com/

Good luck with whatever you end up buying!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I have the Avermedia AverTV Stereo and I am very happy with it but would only ever do AVI captures because of the aspect ratio issues.

[dazco]

Amazing ! Thank you very much John. Rarely does anyone give such a detailed answer and i truly appriciate it !!

That said, i just wanna explain that i only stated my preference for mpeg2 capture because being a noob to all this i thought that was the way to go in order to burn svcd or dvd. But from what you said it seems i'd be much better off capturing avi. Also, it just hit me that i wouldn't be able to edit mpeg2 would i? I did intend to do that too. So i guess avi it is. I'm much less of a noob when it comes to editing avi with virtualdub. (just found that mod version of it here...awesome!)

But this leaves me with 3 questions....can i capture to avi with any of these cards, and can i assume i'd have to buy a seperate program to encode the finished avi to mpeg2? or does the software that comes with them encode avi to mpeg2? I recently looked for an avi to mpeg2 freeware app only to find there aren't any free ones, and i'd hate to buy a card to just do a few videos only to find i also have to spend another 50 bucks on an encoding software. And would i have to get seperate software to add black to the sides if i get a card with an odd aspect ratio, or does the bundled ware do this?
Anyway, thanks again for the very informitive post.

[FulciLives]

1.) The Avermedia cards capture to AVI format using the codec of your choice. The 2 most popular are HuffyUV (free) and PICVideo MJPEG (must pay for it). If your computer is fast nough and you got enough HDD space then HuffyUV is better and free but PICVideo MJPEG is better to save HDD space and on a really slow computer works better.

2.) You will need a MPEG-2 encoder and the 2 most popular choices are TMPGEnc Plus and CCE BASIC (aka CCE LITE). I prefer CCE LITE but it takes more "work" to get it right ... in short you need to master AviSynth scripting.

3.) You can do the "pading" with AviSynth and CCE or with just TMPGEnc Plus.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
The Hauppauge WinTV PVR cards only capture direct to MPEG

*** EDIT ***
By CCE LITE I mean CCE BASIC

[lordsmurf]

ATI All In Wonder cards <<-- BEST
Hauppauge PVR cards (MPEG only)
and if you must .. Canopus ADVC boxes (DV AVI only)

[dazco]

Well, i guess i'll go with AverMedia EZMaker PCI since it captures at the right aspect ratio. I assume this will also mean no padding for SVCD either, which is what i'm going to do at first....DVD was to be used only if SVCD didn't give adequate results, as i don't yet have a DVD burner. I'll buy one if i find i need to burn to DVD to get better quality. But since the VHS tapes are old and not great quality i don't think burning to DVD will make any difference over SVCD.
Thanks for the help....i do believe i'll be ordering one tomorrow.

[brookelh]

I have the AverMedia EZMaker PCI. The software that comes with it only captures to MPEG. However, if you don't want to edit, the quality is better than you might expect, so for quick and easy, that would work. (Though I am not sure if it will do SVCD.)

To capture AVI, I have used iuVCR, using the following guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/capture/nonatiavi/nonatiavi.htm

Also, you can encode from AVI to MPEG using TMPGenc free for 30 days, so if it really is a quick project, just do it in 30 days. iuVCR also has a 30 day free trial, so you could do it all for free if you work fast! Good luck with that !

[FulciLives]

The two best capture applications for doing AVI from cards such as the Avermedia cards:

1.) iuVCR (must pay)
2.) VirtualVCR (freeware)

Both work pretty darn well

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dazco]

I was thinking i could use virtualdub to capture avi. The problem is the avi to mpeg2 format that worries me. I really don't wanna buy a app for that, and i used TMPGenc a while back to experiment burning some videos i already have on my PC. So i used up the 30 days. (mostly spent NOT working with it...should have done it all at once...lazy)

[FulciLives]

I was thinking i could use virtualdub to capture avi. The problem is the avi to mpeg2 format that worries me. I really don't wanna buy a app for that, and i used TMPGenc a while back to experiment burning some videos i already have on my PC. So i used up the 30 days. (mostly spent NOT working with it...should have done it all at once...lazy)

You can't use VirtualDub ... just use VirtualVCR if you want to use a free application.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dazco]

I've captured via a PC cam with VD, so not knowing any better i thought it would work with a capture card too. Oh well, i'm downloading VirtualVCR as i type....thanks again.

[lordsmurf]

You can use VirtualDub on an AVER card. If the drivers, etc, are set right. I've done it.

[dazco]

Oh, ok. Well, i downloaded VirtualVCR anyway and just installed it. It's very cool. Has a lot of little settings i miss in other apps including VD. But i'll try both and see which works better. You people are a huge help to me....Thanks !

[BrainStorm69]

However please note that the AverTV Studio totally ignores all forms of copy protection whereas the EZMaker PCI will not capture when the source has copy protection.

Hey Fulci! My DVD EZMaker PCI has zero problems with Macrovision. Even though the Philips chip supports MV detection, it appears AverMedia did not implement it.

@dazco - I don't know if you have a Fry's Electronics store anywhere near you, but they frequently have the DVD EZMaker on sale there. I got mine for $10 after rebate! Great Deal!

[dazco]

actually i do and i called them today. But they couldn't seem to find it in the computer. But i found a place online that has it for $41 after shipping charges and theres a $20 rebate making it $21. So i might do that or maybe wait till the weekend and drive over to frys and see if they have em.

[BrainStorm69]

actually i do and i called them today. But they couldn't seem to find it in the computer. But i found a place online that has it for $41 after shipping charges and theres a $20 rebate making it $21. So i might do that or maybe wait till the weekend and drive over to frys and see if they have em.

Most of their salespeople are bozos, but they generally do have it. If you decide to go to Fry's, here is what the box looks like.

[Srembecki]

AverTV is the only way to go. Cost me $40 at Fry's and has never let me down. I only use it for VHS transfer so don't know what quality it can handle above 2.5 Mbs, but it's great for for what I use it for.

[FulciLives]

You can use VirtualDub on an AVER card. If the drivers, etc, are set right. I've done it.

I think it is only possible with the BT based cards using the BTwincap driver ... at least at high resolutions.

Anyways ... these days with iuVCR and VirtualVCR I see no need for VirtualDub as a capture application with capture devices that use WDM drivers.

Hey Fulci! My DVD EZMaker PCI has zero problems with Macrovision. Even though the Philips chip supports MV detection, it appears AverMedia did not implement it.

I thought in that BT thread (with the VAN HELSING pics) that you said you couldn't capture from a commercial DVD because of copy protection?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

I thought in that BT thread (with the VAN HELSING pics) that you said you couldn't capture from a commercial DVD because of copy protection?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Nope, that was only with respect to the ATI AIW captures.

[FulciLives]

I thought in that BT thread (with the VAN HELSING pics) that you said you couldn't capture from a commercial DVD because of copy protection?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Nope, that was only with respect to the ATI AIW captures.

Silly me I got confused then because I thought you were saying that about the Avermedia DVD EZMaker PCI card.

I might have to get one of these myself. There is a $20.00 rebate right now if you buy it from tigerdirect.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

You can use VirtualDub on an AVER card. If the drivers, etc, are set right. I've done it.

I think it is only possible with the BT based cards using the BTwincap driver ... at least at high resolutions.

Anyways ... these days with iuVCR and VirtualVCR I see no need for VirtualDub as a capture application with capture devices that use WDM drivers.

BT8x8 AVER, yes. I'm not fond of the hardware.
Those three capture programs all seem the same to me.

[dazco]

I might have to get one of these myself. There is a $20.00 rebate right now if you buy it from tigerdirect.com

Thats what i was saying above, but the odd thing is that the rebate doesn't show on thier site and i called them and they denied it exists. (they show a tone of avermedia rebates, but none with current date)
But there is a PDF file available at pricegrabber when you see it listed at tigerdirect and it clearly shows $20 thru 12/31/04. I then called avermedia and they said the rebate was good after a 10 minute conversation that was like talking to a retarded monkey. The guy i talked to was so loopy i don't think he was really sure.

[FulciLives]

I might have to get one of these myself. There is a $20.00 rebate right now if you buy it from tigerdirect.com

Thats what i was saying above, but the odd thing is that the rebate doesn't show on thier site and i called them and they denied it exists. (they show a tone of avermedia rebates, but none with current date)
But there is a PDF file available at pricegrabber when you see it listed at tigerdirect and it clearly shows $20 thru 12/31/04. I then called avermedia and they said the rebate was good after a 10 minute conversation that was like talking to a retarded monkey. The guy i talked to was so loopy i don't think he was really sure.

Yeah I saw the PDF or graphics image (whatever it was) of the rebate at pricegrabber.com

I think I am just going to order one and even without the rebate the price is still good.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dazco]

Before i order one, i saw this and i'm wondering what you guys think of it as opposed to the avermedia stuff....

http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-ATI_ATI_TV_Wonder_PRO_100_703138

I have a radeon 9800 pro, so i'm thinking in terms of compatability and performance. I keep hearing you all reffering to the 8x8 chip or whatever and how it's rather low quality at capturing video. So what about this ATI? Is it a lot better ? Price ain't that much more.

[BSR]

Some Free MPEG2 encoders.
FreeEnc - Avisynth Required
QuEnc - Avisynth required
bbMPEG

I have never used any, so do a search and see what others say about them.
I know that QuEnc has been incorporated into DVDrebuilder, so it must have something good about it.

[dazco]

Thanks. I'll give em a try once i get things happening here.

[dazco]

Humm.....I decided to try bbMPEG to see how it works. anyone know why when i converted an avi with bbMPEG that the resulting file was called .mv1? I renamed it to .mpg, then to .mpeg and both played at about couble speed and had no audio. (noob stuff, i know) Seems thats (.mv1) NOT one of it's project extentions either.
It doesn't seem to have much control over what it outputs. The other 2 programs BSR mentioned are for avisynth, whick as i understand is run via scripts and has a learning curve. So i'd like to get bbMPEG working if possible.