AMD 64 or Dual Xeon

[videocheez]

Rallyynavie gave me some great ideas about the hardware needed to build a cool dual processor Xeon computer but my finances are a little bit tighter now and I am maybe thinking about trying to build a fast computer that uses the AMD FX53 i think (the fastest of their procesors). Im wondering if any one has a list of hardware that would be good to use. In particulare I want a top of teh line mother board. So far I have purchased a a raptor hardrive and thats it so far.

Any suggetions would be appreciated,

VC

[Capmaster]

Rallyynavie gave me some great ideas about the hardware needed to build a cool dual processor Xeon computer but my finances are a little bit tighter now and I am maybe thinking about trying to build a fast computer that uses the AMD FX53 i think (the fastest of their procesors). Im wondering if any one has a list of hardware that would be good to use. In particulare I want a top of teh line mother board. So far I have purchased a a raptor hardrive and thats it so far.

Any suggetions would be appreciated,

VC

I'm not a fan of WD and would have personally gone with a Seagate, but the raptor seems to be WD's fastest SATA drive.

I'd go with the Pioneer 108 burner. Corsair RAM. Asus or TYAN MB.

[rallynavvie]

I dunno, if money is an issue I don't see how the FX would make things cheaper. The non-939 FX-53 is still about $500, the new version being $800 or more. Two 3 GHz Nocona Xeons run $650. Or you can buy my 3.06 Prestonias when I upgrade to 3.2 Noconas someday.

If you're looking at the FX processors then check out the Asus A8N. That's going to a hot board. Most importantly make sure to get a quality power supply. I rather like my Antec NeoPower 480W. The Pioneer 108 is a great unit, I have a large assortment of Pioneer drives that have tons of burns between them all and are still going strong. Mushkin or Corsair for memory.

[glockjs]

get the 939 socket. and if your lookin at fx 53 spend the few bucks extra and get the fx 55.

for ram get ocz el platinum or crucial ballistix.

for mobo msi with nforce scored the highest. i would lean towards nforce the via chips didnt compete all too well on most tests.

i agree with the neopower PSU. and pioneer dvd drive. get a lite on dvd rom.

always need a solid case.

use the raptor drive(74gb version right?) as your OS drive and pick up a 200gb seagate SATA for storage.


i would say get the single processor puter, what do you really need a dual cpu computer for?


these are just my opinions



forgot the vid card.....on that if you're willing to drop a few buck get an ati x800xt

[rallynavvie]

Yeah, see at that point the dual Xeons are comparable in price if not cheaper. If you're still planning on using this for video work the dual processors are still going to spank the single processor be it an FX or not. The only time the FX is going to beat the SMP system is when the apps are not SMP-aware (duh). However if you're using the system with several apps at the same time then the SMP system is always going to beat the single proc system, HT or not.

[glockjs]

but most apps arent smp aware, really only on the pro level. as far as price depends on what your puting in. you could use older xeons and keep it around the same price. but if your going to use the biggest and baddest it could cost alot more. and plan on dumpin more into the mobo too. but i could be wrong.

[Capmaster]

If you're going to consider a dual Xeon system, then it behooves you to also consider a workstation MB which has a SCSI U320 controller built-in. Going SCSI will put less of a load on the CPU and a good U320 15K drive will run rings around even a raided IDE array

Rallynavvie tipped me off on a new Iwill workstation MB for dual Xeons. It's a WS MB and not a server MB, which is what most of the others are. The difference is being optimized for performance

[rallynavvie]

consider a workstation MB which has a SCSI U320

Feh :P
Who's worried about system resources when you've got two processors? If anything I think SCSI would be better off helping a single CPU system to save on system resources. SMP is like a beautiful woman, SCSI in an SMP system is that beautiful woman with her clothes off, U320 SCSI RAID in there puts her right into your bed. But I digress...

I thought we were trying to save money here. Saving money = buying my used Prestonia Xeons for an Iwill DH800. I considered selling my core system (boards, Xeons, memory) but I thought there would be a good PCI-E workstation chipset out by now. However I am still looking at getting rid of the Prestonias, I just don't know what they'd go for.

[glockjs]

oh i see, rally is just tryin to push his used merchandise :P before we get silly with the hardware anyways what is the price range we are lookin for anyways?

[Capmaster]

oh i see, rally is just tryin to push his used merchandise :P before we get silly with the hardware anyways what is the price range we are lookin for anyways?

Yep. Rally is ....ermm ...."adjusting" his recommendations depending on what hardware he has to unload
Right on, Rally 8)

[videocheez]

I would like to stay around $4K. Maybe $5K
I guess that having the ability to kickass with my online video games like Unreal Tournament is also a driving force. I haVE BEEN TALKING TO A few guys who don't to claim to be hardware experts and they seem to think that the AMD will be better for gaming.
I am always running lots of appz simultaneously. I just recently added a PCI video card and a new monitor to my current box so that I could see all the appz running. By building this new PC, I suppose that I would rather see an increase in video encoding perfomance rather than video gaming performance.
When I looked at the price of the new E0 Nocona's I got scared at the the thought of dumping almost $2K for a couple of processors that in six months would be half the price.

Thnaks for the multitude of ideas and opinions to add to this oh so crucial decision. Maybe I'll just skip the families Xmas presents, be a selfish SOB and build both systems for myself

VC

[glockjs]

I would like to stay around $4K. Maybe $5K

uhhh for around $5k(US anyways) you actually could build both systems. use the amd for games and the dual xeon for heavy video stuff

[glockjs]

i was playin around with newegg earlier and got:

fx-55
ocz el platinum 512x4
msi k8n neo2 plat nforce3
sapphire ati x800 xt
thermaltake dream tower tsunami case
antec neo power psu
74gb raptor
200gb sata seagate
pioneer dvr 108 dvdr
lite on 16x dvd rom
thermaltake tower112 heatsink then a pretty quiet antec fan

all for around $2700

but then again thinking about it for around the 5k i would probably go for the dual 3.6 xeon's.......

[glockjs]

http://tyan.com/products/html/thunderi7525.html

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-117-029&depa=1

[rallynavvie]

Meh, if I don't sell them I may get a server board for them and bump the Tyan down to a managed switch

I spent around $4k for my workstation and didn't carry over anything from the old machine other than the DVD drive. Since Noconas cost pretty much the same as what I paid for my Prestonias last spring you'd be fine getting 3.2G Xeons for that price.

That Tyan board is nice, but it's the Intel 7525 chipset. More for server work than workstation even though they tout that for workstation use. I really like that they put the slow PCI ports up next to the video card slot so that you aren't losing a fast PCI-X port by having a video card that takes up more room. That's becoming more common now. The chipsets for SMP and PCI-E are not quite to the point that I'd consider buying one yet. nVidia just signed with Intel to make chipsets for them so that's exciting news but we probably won't see anything from that until late next year maybe.

The FX is going to obliterate the Xeons for gaming on games that are processor-intensive, otherwise games rely more on the GPU you've got. I can still game pretty well on my computer and it's not that fantastic a gaming rig, especially now with the new video card (which I guess is still a far sight better than the 5600 Ultra I had in there).

[glockjs]

maybe if you did sell him your xeons it could be realistic for him to have the best of both worlds


but intel + nvidia

[rallynavvie]

Actually I think I know how we can settle this. Get the best Socket 939 board you can find and fill it with U320 SCSI RAID, thus costing the same as a good dual Xeon system but runs hot as hell

[glockjs]

shhhhhhhhh

[Soopafresh]

Those new Athlons run amazingly cool, temperature-wise. Even the Athlon 64 3200 runs at less than 40C in a 1U rack unit at work. I have a P4 3.0 in another 1U machine and it consistently gets above 70C.

The dual Xeon workstations we have are nice, but the extra fans make for a noisy machine- too noisy to put on a desk. Obviously, you can look for the quiet heatsinks and fans (Zalman, etc). Plus, I swear I can see the overhead lights dim when they're booted.

As glockjs mentioned, get a great power supply. Can't be stressed enough. Lookie here:

http://www.pctoyland.com/cat_X-Connect_PSU.htm (haven't tried these, but what a GREAT idea)

Also
http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=58&DEPA=0

[waheed]

I dunno, if money is an issue I don't see how the FX would make things cheaper. The non-939 FX-53 is still about $500, the new version being $800 or more. Two 3 GHz Nocona Xeons run $650. Or you can buy my 3.06 Prestonias when I upgrade to 3.2 Noconas someday.

If you're looking at the FX processors then check out the Asus A8N. That's going to a hot board. Most importantly make sure to get a quality power supply. I rather like my Antec NeoPower 480W. The Pioneer 108 is a great unit, I have a large assortment of Pioneer drives that have tons of burns between them all and are still going strong. Mushkin or Corsair for memory.

Yep, i would also suggest the Asus A8N SLI Deluxe board, (which is my next mb), seems to be the best one out there currently with nforce4

[Skoorb]

Dual CPUs are seriously overrated. The frenzy for them worked up nicely back when two celeron 366s would make for an easy dual 550 overclocked setup on the Abit BP6. I bought that setup myself. It was a waste of money. Almost nothing is SMP aware. In terms of games and all that you'll realize no benefits (I remember quake 3 supposedly took advantage of duals, at least during beta, but nothing much).

For all intents and purposes I had a 550 cpu with another one sitting there. Now, if I was into video editing or I happened to do some of the RC5 cracking or whatever, then it may have been nice, but I would take a strong single cpu over dual weakened ones any day.

Unless you are going to be using apps that can take huge advantage of duals, and those apps are important to you, do not do it; go with a fast, capable single CPU like the AMD mentioned above which is a bad ass cpu.

If you want a dual setup go with dual SLI cards.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/NVIDIA/SLI/cardsandbridgeinstalled.jpg That's what it's all about and will give you a gaming machine _from hell_. Fast as crap. Max out your games with 8 AA.

[rallynavvie]

Even the Athlon 64 3200 runs at less than 40C in a 1U rack unit at work. I have a P4 3.0 in another 1U machine and it consistently gets above 70C.

We can safely assume it's a Prescott P4 then. The 90nm Intels have problems with heat, it's been addressed plenty of times. Anyway I wasn't even talking about the heat from the CPUs, I meant the heat from having all those 15krpm SCSI drives running inside the box. Those things do put out some serious heat.

I can game just as well as an A64 3200 with my workstation using same video cards. Heck I could play FarCry at 1024x768x32 on medium res on a dual 1900 MP system with a GF4 4400 in it. Consider most games are mostly GPU-intensive and not CPU-intensive. There are a few that work your processors pretty hard like HL2 and BF1942 that it helps to have the single faster processor. However most of my background system resources can utilize one processor while the game is free to use the other almost solely. I remember going to a LAN with my dual 1900 MP system and running the standalone server for BF1942 and running the game itself to connect to that server with 10 other people and a dozen bots. Though there isn't much call for it very often how many single CPU systems do you know that can do that?

In the end it really just depends on how much you use your computer. Gaming is really the only thing that most of us do that taxes our system resources so that's what we base performance on for the most part. You need to make your purchase decision on what you itend to spend and how you intend to use the computer.

So vc, how much time do you think you'll spend gaming on it, using it for internet/other use, and how much time using video and other apps that can take advantage of the resources available on an SMP system? Looking for percentages. Maybe we can put together a buyer's guide based on cost/usage for folks here.

[Skoorb]

Remember also, that if you're heavy into video stuff you can always set a job and let it happen overnight. Even my 3200+ can encode several movies while I sleep, so unless you're rendering the next pixar movie you probably would be fine with a good single cpu.

[videocheez]

Right on Fellas. This is a whole lotta infor to absorb but it does seem that my current system has been fine for video encoding overnight as was suggested above. I think I'm now leaning towards a fast AMD 64 system. I'm at the top of my gaming skills so im looking to get an advantage over my buddies with the a new gaming PC. Besides I would like to have a comp that will be able to take advantage of the new 64bit OS whenver it arrives. I will have to take a look at the links and the mother board suggestions so that i can get started buying more stuff. Is it true that the AMD 64 bit processors cannot use DDR memory such as the Mushkin 2-2-2 PC3200? If I can build a great box for around 3K, this will give more money to buy someting new around summer time
Let's say I select the Asus A8N mother board, what will be a good high end memory (2GB) and will my already purchased 74GB Raptor work as a main drive and the Maxtor 300GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model 6B300S0, OEM Drive as a secondary drive? Also does the Asus A8N have a AGPB*X slot and what would be a really high end nvida video card to add to this system? I will take you suggestions since you guys always have good ideas. Are these video cards gonna work one the Asus A8N? I can't quite tell from the pictures if its the same motherboard. Whats the approximate prie of these video cards and will I need to use two monitors to expand th view of the game o will the game still be on one primary monitor? Can I get front side USB and firewire with the Asus A8N?






Thanks in advance,

VC

[Skoorb]

My hardware knowledge is sketchy, of late, but the article with the SLI cards is http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2284 and it will be able to answer at least some of them.

I think the raptor and a 300 gig storage drive are great. Some would recommend RAID0 of two raptors, but Anandtech, in their storage section, posted an article with many benchmarks showing that the performance increase is marginal, at best, for the desktop user.

[rallynavvie]

I think the A8N would be your better board even by next summer. I don't know if I'd bother with SLI but if you're going to hit it look for GeForce 6600s for it to cut down the cost a little. Most games still don't natively support multiple displays so the only advantage of a second one would be for other applications. Also I can't recall if there are disadvantages of using a second monitor in an SLI system.

Actually the A8N uses DDR so you'd be fine with low-CAS Mushkin PC3200 like that. I dunno about 2GB though, 1GB should be enough. You may actually hurt performance with more than that depending on the game.