audio cuts out in the middle of dvd, but not in mpeg

[agoodspellr]

when i take an mpeg that i've captured and edit out scenes (using four different programs) then save to an mpeg, everything is great playing the mpeg. but when i burn it to dvd (using three different programs, with and without menus) some clips are missing audio. it seems to happen totally at random, but if i burn it the same mpeg twice the audio is missing in the same clips. sometimes it cuts out for the rest of the dvd, other times it cuts out for a clip then comes back at the next clip. if i recut the mpeg and redo it, it usually fixes the problem. something is screwing up at the cuts and i can't figure it out. any tips? i've lost half of my discs to this so far.

abit nf7-S mobo
hauppage 250 capture card
plextor 708A dvd burner

[Bizuser]

You don't say what program you are using to edit (cut) the mpegs. Since you say you are using multiple authoring tools, that 'should' rule out the author tool, so the suspect is likely the mpeg editor.

Many moons ago, I tried capturing direct to MPG (using my Hauppauge WinTV), and tried a variety of MPEG 'cut' editors, but NONE would make cuts that didn't somehow screw up the audio in some way, so I gave up and now, capture using a canopus advc 100 device, then encode to mpeg in a variety of ways. So all I can tell you is, I had similar problems.

Back then, the mpeg editor that shipped with the winTV device (even the most recent update from the web) was really, really buggy. I also tried using TMPGEnc to do the cutting, but had similar problems. I think a contributing factor here is the fact that the MPEG 2 produced by WinTV is not that compliant (just a guess).

Have you tried using TMPGEnc DVD Author? It has the option to 'cut' the video on the fly, during the author phase. That is, you select your source (mpg), and then have the option to 'cut' bits out. It doesn't actually cut the source, it just skips over it when producing the output. No idea if this will work in your case, but it's worth a try perhaps.

What about VirtualDubMod - have you tried it to do the cuts? The 'mod' version handles mpeg input. I haven't tried it myself, but it may be able to produce better cuts. Editing MPG is inherently difficult, due to the 'GOP' structure of the video stream. An MPG 'cuts only' editor should be able to handle it, but it has to know where exactly to cut the audio at the same time, and figuring that out may not be easy for the program.

I tried to ressurect my WinTV 'methodology' last week, seeing if the latest drivers, etc from the web would improve things, but it was as flakey as ever so I am again abandoning the 'direct to MPEG' approach offered by WinTV. Shame, because the concept is so good!

[agoodspellr]

Do you think that forcing it to use a different bitrate after I make the cuts would force it to reencode everything, and thereby solve the problem? i mean in the editor (btw I've tried pinnacle studio 9, mpeg video wizard, videoredo, nanopeg). I don't know the details of mpeg2, so i've never understood why everybody has so many audio problems with it.

(it will be an extreme disappointment if the hauppage is junk - i spent a wad on it cause i had heard lots of good things, and needed to replace a crap winfast card that didn't live up to its reputation either. none of the programs that came with the hauppage have worked with it - very frustrating.)

[Garibaldi]

I had a problem like that where I had my mpeg 2 dvd slideshow files, and I wanted to switch some of the audio on a couple of them. So I demuxed the files, and remuxed them with a new audio file. I then burned all the files to dvd. The ones that I hadn't de/remuxed played fine with sound and everything. The ones I had demuxed froze about 2 secs into it. I rerendered those files and then burned again and worked fine. I guess my only suggestion would be to try rerendering them.

[Bizuser]

But re-rendering (re-encoding) is going to degrade the material, right?

I guess, if you capture at the maximum settings possible (max res, max bitrate, etc), this may not be a practical issue.

I started off with an ATI capture card, then bought the Hauppauge, then finally splurged on the Canopus (and firewire card!). The quality of the Hauppague captures (direct to MPEG2) was quite good, and I really wanted it to work, but I could simply not find any editor that could 'cut' it successfully, which defeated my purposes. I think I finally tried putting the mpeg files through the same process you put a ripped DVD through if you need to re-encode (shrink) it -use dvd2avi and avisynth to frameserve to tmpgEnc, then remux the audio back in using bbMPEG (from the dvd2svcd package, over at doom9). But that was a LOT of work. And I can't remember where I made my cuts during that process (since the audio is not processed as part of the TMPG step above). I also tried cutting in TMPGEnc and muxing the audio within TMPG, but I'm pretty sure that failed.

By comparison, with the Canopus, I simply capture to a reasonably sized (my opinion!!! - 15 Gig per hour, I think) avi file (with zero dropped frames), cut it with VDub, then encode with TMPG. Takes HOURS to encode, though!!! I don't mind that part. The audio is perfectly synched, and I never have any problems.

But I think everyone agrees, this is a problem not with the authoring but with the MPEG editing, so another forum might be more appropriate?

I'd love to see someone come up with a bullet-proof methodology for this using Hauppauge since I have one lying around collecting dust! I think it's value lies in being a simple 'capture and playback' device - TiVo like, perhaps? Just don't think of editing the material!

Good Luck!

[Garibaldi]

But re-rendering (re-encoding) is going to degrade the material, right?

Would the quality loss really be that bad if any? I didn't notice any loss with my videos. Its not like your converting it into several different formats. Your just rewriting the file in the same format.

[agoodspellr]

There will be some loss of quality, as it is resampling based on compressed data.

After re-encoding with Pinnacle Studio the audio was all there, but out of sync. Of course, having to re-encode totally defeats the purpose of having a hardware encoder.

(I'd move to another forum but I think this is a dead thread. I must say that dvd authoring has been nothing but an experience in frustration for me. After having blown a few hundred dollars on three defective pieces of hardware and dozens of coasters, I am going to warn everyone I know away from it. The technology is clearly not mature enough yet for the average user, and is plagued by greedy companies who can neither agree upon nor follow standards. Sorry, hadda get that out. If I ever hear of a solution I'll let you know.)

[Garibaldi]

After having blown a few hundred dollars on three defective pieces of hardware and dozens of coasters, I am going to warn everyone I know away from it. The technology is clearly not mature enough yet for the average user, and is plagued by greedy companies who can neither agree upon nor follow standards.

I found the same thing with commercial software. My recommendation is that with some good research on sites like videohelp, you can find all the software that you need for free. Granted it may not be as easy and simplistic to do, but it only took me three months to have a fully developed system for all video editing, using 99% free software.

[agoodspellr]

Ok I seem to have found something.

You must capture using one of the 'DVD' formats. Then after you've captured, run Womble Video Wizard 2003's on the file. The GOP fixer on my one hour capture picked up 5035 time code errors and 55640 PTS errors.

I'm told elsewhere to fix the file by doing the following: Choose the MPEG Systems Stream Converter, and output to an MPEG2 Program Stream. This should produce correct audio - no missing clips and no sync problems. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks hopeful. Another option which apparently removes the errors is to open the file and just output it again with Womble, before you edit it.

I'm told Hauppauge is playing dumb because they can't fix the problem. If Womble doesn't fix the problems after all, I'll repost.

[Garibaldi]

You must capture using one of the 'DVD' formats

Right. What I have found to be best is if you can find a capture program (hopefully free on this site) that will capture your video directly into Mpeg 2 d1 format. This way, you never have to render the video, saving time and chance of error. Here is my procedure, maybe it will help you:
1. Capture with DVXCEL into MPEG 2 D1
2. Split the mpeg file with demux into m2v and mp2
3. Import the m2v and mp2 files into MPEG2Schnitt (or Cuttermaran if you have TMPGENC) and edit out the parts of the video that I don't want. It then creates a new mpeg without rerendering!
4. I then import my new mpeg files into GUI for DVD Author and author my dvd.
4a. If I want to make slideshows, I use Slideshow Movie Maker and then either TMPGENC or BBMpeg to convert the avi to mpeg
5. I take the outputed AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders from GUI for DVD Author, drop them on a data dvd, burn, and your done.

[Bizuser]

Ok I seem to have found something.

You must capture using one of the 'DVD' formats. Then after you've captured, run Womble Video Wizard 2003's on the file. The GOP fixer on my one hour capture picked up 5035 time code errors and 55640 PTS errors.

I'm told elsewhere to fix the file by doing the following: Choose the MPEG Systems Stream Converter, and output to an MPEG2 Program Stream. This should produce correct audio - no missing clips and no sync problems. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks hopeful. Another option which apparently removes the errors is to open the file and just output it again with Womble, before you edit it.

I'm told Hauppauge is playing dumb because they can't fix the problem. If Womble doesn't fix the problems after all, I'll repost.

Hey, Good Speller ...! You inspired me to revisit my old WinTV PVR250 setup. I'm now capturing direct to MPEG using it (and using the scheduler too!). I downloaded all the latest versions, and used tips/etc from www.shspvr.com.

I also downloaded Womble MPEG2VCR, which is a cheaper version of the Womble video wizard (I believe), which is supposed to 'fix' the errors you refer to. I used it to cut out commercials, etc and ran the GOP fixer on the stream with no errors.

I'm not yet convinced that the quality is as good as the captures I've done using Canopus, but ... the PVR-250 process takes only minutes versus hours for the Canopus/TMPGEnc route. So I'll probably continue to use Canopus for 'archival' stuff - saving old important tapes, etc, but use PVR250 and Womble for quick recording of shows.

Also, MUCH to my amazement I found tips over at shspvr regarding the capturing of Closed Captions! So now, my captured material plays on my set-top DVD player with CC's! So I want to thank you for inspiring me to re-visit this. I'm now quite positive about the WinTV PVR250 product ...

[agoodspellr]

I've found one more thing (on my own - make sure to test it out). If you make a custom capture mode, and choose the following settings, it seems to get rid of the problems:

video
Program stream
variable bit rate
bitrate/maxbitrate as you like (i do 3000/4400 for about 2 hours on a dvd)
gop 15
720x480

audio
mpeg layer 2
48 KHz
bitrate 224 (I was getting some static from the default encoding of 384 being downgraded to 224 by my authoring program)

If you choose DVD stream instead of Program stream, that's where all the PTS and time code errors seem to come in. I'm going to test it some more before I fully trust it, but it looks good so far.